Canon Talks 250mp APS-H Image Sensor at ISSCC

[Canon Rumors]

Canon is once again talking about their 250mp image sensor that <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-develops-aps-h-size-cmos-sensor-with-approximately-250-megapixels/" target="_blank">they showcased at the Canon EXPO</a> back in September. This time, they’ve presented a paper at the ISSCC 2016 Conference (All About Sensors).</p>
<p><a href="http://harvestimaging.com/blog/?p=1536" target="_blank">Harvest Imaging</a> has this to say about what Canon presented:</p>
<blockquote><p>Hirofumi Totsuka of Canon presented a 250 Mpixel APS-H size imager : 1.5 um pixel pitch (4 sharing) made in 0.13 um technology node.   The device is consuming 1.97 W at full resolution 5fps.  An interesting build-in feature of this sensor is the following :  ALL pixel signals are converted by column SS-ADCs with a single ramp, but in front of the ADC, each column has its own PGA that can be switched to 4x or 1x gain, depending on the signal level.  So when the pixels are sampled, a first check is done to look whether the signal is above or below a particular reference level, and then the right gain of the PGA is set to 1x or 4x.  Simple method, but I think that the issues pop up in the reconstruction of the signal at the cross-over point between the two settings of the PGA.</p></blockquote>
<p>This sensor does not mean that the APS-H sensor size is returning. We imagine that whenever the 250mp sensor comes to market, it will be in a full frame application.</p>
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[pj1974]

This has me very interested... as it shows Canon is truly doing some serious R&D on their sensor front, and yes - that's innovating ... which I expect will bring all us photographers wins in the end.

As I have said for many years, the APS-H format is likely not going to be a strong option (either APS-C, or "35mm" - aka 'FF'), each respectively having benefits over the APS-H (which sits in between).

I look forward to seeing the sensor developments that Canon are doing, becoming reality on future cameras.

Additionally... this should also mean continued good competition, which is always a good thing too.

Paul

 

[nvsravank]

Who needs 250MP?
Even billboards don't need that high I would assume?
Even models will look bad as nobody's skin will look good at the resolution! Not even a new born's

Landscapes?

 

[IglooEater]

That's pretty cool! At that pixel density we'd see what, 400 megapixels in a full frame? That's going to push makeup artists and photoshoppers to a whole new level. That is, if we find an application for that much resolution, and I don't doubt we will.

 

[Loswr]

APS-H is dead. Long live APS-H!!

Canon innovating on sensor architecture?!? Who'da thunk?? :

 

[wsmith96]

Perhaps it is for industrial or security use?

 

[M_S]

So far I haven't read anything spectacular besides the huge amount of pixels in there and that it is possible to read the data with 5fps. Nothing about quality in general, noise handling, iso performance, colour accuracy etc.
Although it is spectacular to be able to produce a 250 Megapixel sensor, I am more interested in the other stuff, as I don't see a task for me to be able to a) handle that data, b) shoot in a way that this will be a sharp picture in the end.

 

[RobPan]

Hm, if there would be a FF sensor with 250 MP, wchich lenses would they want to use? Sony GM? Older lenses all have insufficient resolution for that many mexapixels.

If they are serious about such a high MP sensor, that presumably means they are working on a Sony GM equivalent or better.

Kind regards,
Rob.

 

[dflt]

This has me very interested... as it shows Canon is truly doing some serious R&D on their sensor front, and yes - that's innovating ... which I expect will bring all us photographers wins in the end.

As I have said for many years, the APS-H format is likely not going to be a strong option (either APS-C, or "35mm" - aka 'FF'), each respectively having benefits over the APS-H (which sits in between).

I look forward to seeing the sensor developments that Canon are doing, becoming reality on future cameras.

Additionally... this should also mean continued good competition, which is always a good thing too.

Paul

Canon is progressing sideways. Where is the dynamic range?

 

[CincyFlyer]

Canon is progressing sideways. Where is the dynamic range?

Note the 1x or 4x internal amplification, PER PIXEL. That could, if properly implemented, reach two stops into the shadows.

 

[fentiger]

And the file size this sensor will produce ????? as for camera shake your going to need something better than a tripod.
best thing i see this for is a 30 meter telescope

 

[kaihp]

Canon is progressing sideways. Where is the dynamic range?

Note the 1x or 4x internal amplification, PER PIXEL. That could, if properly implemented, reach two stops into the shadows.

Technically, that's a per-column amp, but it is switched between 1x and 4x amplification on a per-pixel basis.

I presume that "PGA" means Pixel Gain Amplifier, but googling didn't provide anything conclusive. It's definitely not "pin grid array" as I'm used to.

SS-ADC means Single Slope-A/D Conversion. It is 'slow', requiring 2N steps for converting an N-bit number.

 

[StatisticsRule]

And the file size this sensor will produce ????? as for camera shake your going to need something better than a tripod.
best thing i see this for is a 30 meter telescope

Nah. You can already get an 8.4 meter telescope with a 3,200 Mpixel camera that will take 15Tb of data every night (http://www.lsst.org/). To stay competitive, your 30 meter telescope should have at least 40,000 Mpixels! ;D

 

[rs]

Hm, if there would be a FF sensor with 250 MP, wchich lenses would they want to use? Sony GM? Older lenses all have insufficient resolution for that many mexapixels.

Yes, that's right. Sony GM lenses are the only lenses capable of resolving fine detail. Canon have poor performers such as the 100-400 II and 300/2.8 II which are sorely in need of replacement.

 

[hne]

Hm, if there would be a FF sensor with 250 MP, wchich lenses would they want to use? Sony GM? Older lenses all have insufficient resolution for that many mexapixels.

If they are serious about such a high MP sensor, that presumably means they are working on a Sony GM equivalent or better.

Kind regards,
Rob.

I'd guess they'd want to use the L II versions of the 35/1.4, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8 and 100-400/4.5-5.6. Canon have said that lenses designed after (date forgotten) have been designed with high megapixel sensors in mind. I doubt that would stop with the resolution of the 5DSr. 250Mpx in 3:2 aspect could be something along the line of 19360*12900 pixels, or about 2.2 times the linear resolution of the 5DSr.

Now, if the 250Mpx APS-H sensor becomes a 1.3x linearly larger full 24x36 frame, we'd be looking at over 400Mpx... That might be a chore for our lenses!

 

[bdunbar79]

They're not using the APS-H sensor in the final products. I've done lots and lots of R&D. You use platforms and materials that AREN'T being used because then it costs less money to do the R&D. Try it on an old sensor architecture and then develop the concept, implement to existing products, etc.

 

[3kramd5]

Who needs 250MP?
Even billboards don't need that high I would assume?
Even models will look bad as nobody's skin will look good at the resolution! Not even a new born's

The pixel pitch isn't significantly higher than most current smartphone; skin doesn't look horrible even with significant magnification (eg 5.4x4 mm^2 up to 10x8 in^2)

 

[Berowne]

And the file size this sensor will produce ????? as for camera shake your going to need something better than a tripod.
best thing i see this for is a 30 meter telescope

Nah. You can already get an 8.4 meter telescope with a 3,200 Mpixel camera that will take 15Tb of data every night (http://www.lsst.org/). To stay competitive, your 30 meter telescope should have at least 40,000 Mpixels! ;D

As long as the sensor cannot detect gravitational waves it is not groundbreaking.

 

[Don Haines]

They're not using the APS-H sensor in the final products. I've done lots and lots of R&D. You use platforms and materials that AREN'T being used because then it costs less money to do the R&D. Try it on an old sensor architecture and then develop the concept, implement to existing products, etc.

Exactly!

Hey, we have this pile of stuff we don't need any more.... OK R+D people, it's yours to do what you want with it......

 

[bdunbar79]

They're not using the APS-H sensor in the final products. I've done lots and lots of R&D. You use platforms and materials that AREN'T being used because then it costs less money to do the R&D. Try it on an old sensor architecture and then develop the concept, implement to existing products, etc.

Exactly!

Hey, we have this pile of stuff we don't need any more.... OK R+D people, it's yours to do what you want with it......

Hey, nobody said I was happy about it. 8)