Tilt-Shift Lens vs. Macro Slide Rail

[anim8r79]

I'm in the market for a tilt-shift lens like the 24mm for real estate photography. However, it is very pricey and I'm wondering if there are any alternatives to wider captures. Right now I'm on a APS-C with a Canon 10-22 and I'm not a big fan of the curvature at the extreme frame edges. Planning on going Full Frame very soon and didn't know if the tilt-shift is absolutely worth the $2K+ or if similar results could be had with a 24mm (or 20mm, etc) on a Macro Slide Rail, going left to right to capture a wider composition and then stitch back together in PS.

Suggestions/Advice greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Loswr]

I'm in the market for a tilt-shift lens like the 24mm for real estate photography. However, it is very pricey and I'm wondering if there are any alternatives to wider captures. Right now I'm on a APS-C with a Canon 10-22 and I'm not a big fan of the curvature at the extreme frame edges. Planning on going Full Frame very soon and didn't know if the tilt-shift is absolutely worth the $2K+ or if similar results could be had with a 24mm (or 20mm, etc) on a Macro Slide Rail, going left to right to capture a wider composition and then stitch back together in PS.

You can't do a two-shot shift-panorama with a macro rail, you'd just be taking two shots that would overlap by about 98%. A shift lens moves the lens elements relative to the sensor, as opposed to shifting both lens and sensor.

 

[5dmk.iii]

Macro rail could work as long as you can back up the body and pivot on the lens nodal point.

There's another way :

What you need it a tripod head with panning. And a lens with a tripod collar. You can get shots panning with the camera attached to the tripod head and pan... but you will run into Parallax issues. Thats where a lens with a tripod coller come into play. The collar lets you pivot the body over the tripod head nearer to the focal point of the lenses vs at the sensor where parallax can occur.

 

[5dmk.iii]

I'm in the market for a tilt-shift lens like the 24mm for real estate photography. However, it is very pricey and I'm wondering if there are any alternatives to wider captures. Right now I'm on a APS-C with a Canon 10-22 and I'm not a big fan of the curvature at the extreme frame edges. Planning on going Full Frame very soon and didn't know if the tilt-shift is absolutely worth the $2K+ or if similar results could be had with a 24mm (or 20mm, etc) on a Macro Slide Rail, going left to right to capture a wider composition and then stitch back together in PS.

You can't do a two-shot shift-panorama with a macro rail, you'd just be taking two shots that would overlap by about 98%. A shift lens moves the lens elements relative to the sensor, as opposed to shifting both lens and sensor.

Neuro, he could use the rail as a slingshot and pivot on the nodal point of the lens...

 

[anim8r79]

I've read about rotating on the nodal point of the lens, and there is a really lengthy article on the Really Right Stuff page about all the equipment they offer in regards to panoramas... My head hurts from all that info.

I'm trying to minimize the amount of setup/overlap, tripod moving, etc and it seems like the most efficient way is to go with the Tilt-shift lens. Take one all the way left, take one all the way right and then stitch in PS, right? Or at least a third image in the direct center of the frame...

I've read the reviews on The-Digital-Picture raving about the 24mm mk II over the first version with regards to chromatic aberration and fringing etc... but if a lot of that can be fixed in PS, is it worth saving $1,000+ to go with the mk I over the newer mk II?

 

[Enthusiast]

This is a very academic discussion. I suggest to rent the TS-E24mm L II to try it by yourself. I did this last month and it is an incredible lens! With a tilt shift you get the full quality into your file, every PS action to expand is a compromise.

 

[anim8r79]

You tried the 24mm T/S L on your 40D? How difficult was it to make adjustments? I read that on bodies with a built-in flash that some of the controls are hard to get to...

 

[Quasimodo]

I have another suggestion. Try a lens that goes fairly wide, and shoot multiple overlapping shots vertically with free hand, and use the automate stitch in CS5. I read a book by Scott Kelby arguing for this approach, and in my opinion it has worked quite well, as long as you find some helping line in the place you are shooting at to fix your autofocus point. The benefit of shooting vertically is that even if the pictures don't overlap perfect, there is still so much space that you can cut out a really good picture of it.

I am including a shoot I took with my 17mm TS (23 pictures stiched together). In this shot I used the horizon to help me as I was turning my body and camera. If the picture is not up to standards, then it is the photographer, and not the stiching softwares fault

 

[5dmk.iii]

You tried the 24mm T/S L on your 40D? How difficult was it to make adjustments? I read that on bodies with a built-in flash that some of the controls are hard to get to...

24mm on 40D is close to 40mm on FF. You would need 4-6 shots depending how wide you wanted to go vs. a single 10-22mm. Can you consider a nice 5d1 and get extra width? they are going for $800 on ebay in very good condition. Everyone selling and buy the 5d3... in the end the savings in workflow enough might make it a worthwhile purchase.

 

[Enthusiast]

No I tried the 24 TS on a 5D M2 of course

 

[gbillett]

I'm in the same situation. The mark ii lens is a terrific lens, beautifully engineered, but expensive. Options as I see them are :

1. Buy 24mm mark i. Seems capable but CA prominent and specs not as good as mark ii ( ie less shift). Good write up and images on http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/tilt_and_shift_ts-e.html.
2. Buy proper pano kit for making multi-row stitched images. OK for general landscapes but difficulties potentially up close.
3. Wait for Samyang to release its rumoured 24mm ts lens later this year. Should be good value. Manual focus no different than Canons ts lenses
4. Use existing lenses and pp in photoshop etc
5. Bite the bullet and buy the mk ii.

I'm still undecided but need one later this year. I'll probably wait for more news re Samyang. The other immediate option is to buy a mk i and if its unsatisfactory sell it for little or no loss. Good luck with your decision ;D

Geoff

 

[Random Orbits]

You tried the 24mm T/S L on your 40D? How difficult was it to make adjustments? I read that on bodies with a built-in flash that some of the controls are hard to get to...

If the 24mm is like the 17mm, then you might not be able to use the larger knob that shifts the lens. The smaller knob works ok, but it's easier with the larger knob. The larger knob might interfere with pop-up flash's lower profile when you rotate the whole assembly (switching from a horizontal shift to a vertical shift and vice versa).

 

[Tijn]

I have another suggestion. Try a lens that goes fairly wide, and shoot multiple overlapping shots vertically with free hand, and use the automate stitch in CS5.

For landscapes that might work, as slight shifts in the position of the camera won't have any noticeable effects on the angle of view of far-away things.

When you're indoors or working with closer objects, you'll need the precision of a tripod with the pivot point being at the optical center of the lens. Small shifts in camera position will result in visible changes in the angle of view as the things you're taking pictures of are close by.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'm in the market for a tilt-shift lens like the 24mm for real estate photography. However, it is very pricey and I'm wondering if there are any alternatives to wider captures. Right now I'm on a APS-C with a Canon 10-22 and I'm not a big fan of the curvature at the extreme frame edges. Planning on going Full Frame very soon and didn't know if the tilt-shift is absolutely worth the $2K+ or if similar results could be had with a 24mm (or 20mm, etc) on a Macro Slide Rail, going left to right to capture a wider composition and then stitch back together in PS.

Suggestions/Advice greatly appreciated! Thanks!

I have a relatively inexpensive Kirk long rail which is about 6 inches long that will let you position your lens so you can rotate around the nodal point using your tripod. It is a relatively inexpensive way to turn your tripod and head into a panoramic head. You do not need a uber expensive lens to get decent results, start with a cheap but distortion free prime lens and then decide if you are getting enough business to splurge.

Canon is also coming out with a new version of DPP that will make extensive corrections for the commonly used Canon lenses, even accounting for distortion from the lowpass filter on the sensor. It sounds great to me, and its free. No word on exactly which lenses it will support, but it will be out very soon, since its coming with the 5D MK III.

http://www.kirkphoto.com/Long-Rail-Plate-Macro.html

 

[Loswr]

Neuro, he could use the rail as a slingshot and pivot on the nodal point of the lens...

Sure, but that's not what the OP was suggesting. "...Macro Slide Rail, going left to right to capture a wider composition and then stitch back together in PS."

But you're right, a macro rail oriented forward/backward as you'd use it for macro (or even a long lens plate with a perpendicular mounting plate, assuming no tripod collar on the lens) combined with a tripod head with a panning feature, would work. The process to find the nodal point is straightforawrd, and you can mark it on the rail/plate for each lens for future reference.

FWIW, using a TS lens to create shift panoramas is not ideal with close subjects in the frame (like in RE shots), unless special steps are taken, for the same reason as above - parallax. Shifting the lens front elements (with a TS lens) doesn't correct for that - what you actually need to do is hold the front element position constant and shift the camera. There are a couple of outfits that sell custom tripod collars for the TS-E lenses for just that purpose.

 

[Flake]

It always raises a wry smile when people discuss pano heads, because I know that sooner or later someone will mention the 'Nodal Point' without a clue what it is.

In fact the Nodal point is the point on a lens element where the light bends, here is what Wikipedia has to say:

"The nodal points are widely misunderstood in photography, where it is commonly asserted that the light rays "intersect" at "the nodal point", that the iris diaphragm of the lens is located there, and that this is the correct pivot point for panoramic photography, so as to avoid parallax error. These claims generally arise from confusion about the optics of camera lenses, as well as confusion between the nodal points and the other cardinal points of the system. (A better choice of the point about which to pivot a camera for panoramic photography can be shown to be the centre of the system's entrance pupil. On the other hand, swing-lens cameras with fixed film position rotate the lens about the rear nodal point to stabilize the image on the film."

No doubt there'll be plenty of the usual smites for putting people right - yet another good reason for getting rid of it.

 

[Quasimodo]

I have another suggestion. Try a lens that goes fairly wide, and shoot multiple overlapping shots vertically with free hand, and use the automate stitch in CS5.

For landscapes that might work, as slight shifts in the position of the camera won't have any noticeable effects on the angle of view of far-away things.

When you're indoors or working with closer objects, you'll need the precision of a tripod with the pivot point being at the optical center of the lens. Small shifts in camera position will result in visible changes in the angle of view as the things you're taking pictures of are close by.

Thank you that is useful information

 

[Flake]

Neuro, he could use the rail as a slingshot and pivot on the nodal point of the lens...

, and you can mark it on the rail/plate for each lens for future reference.

No you can't because the point changes position with both focal length on a zoom, and with focus. The best you can hope to do is to get a close approximation and work from there.

A Pano head is only really useful where there is good perspective, objects close to the lens and further away. If everything is more or less in the same focal plane then software will make a good job of it. These days the software is so good that even without a pano head it will make a 'perfect' stitch, which is why I sold mine.

 

[iaind]

Picked up a 24mk1 used for less than 1/3 cheapest price of mk2. Can do without the pivot of Mk2.

Its another option

 

[Flake]

Didn't take long for someone to hit the smite button did it?