21mp Sensor in the 7D Mark II? [CR1]

[9VIII]

High ISO noise is a priority, I want a nice clean ISO800, but as long as they can achieve those goals at the same time I'll take as many Megapixels to go along with it as they can give me.
Eventually I want to be using a 40MP crop sensor, but for now I'd be happy with something like 28. Anything less than 21 would be disappointing.

 

[ddashti]

A 21 Mp 7DII sounds fine to me. But it's the rest of the hardware package that holds the greatest interest, along with a release date!

-PW

I couldn't agree more with that statement!

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Eventually I want to be using a 40MP crop sensor, but for now I'd be happy with something like 28. Anything less than 21 would be disappointing.

40MP on a crop sensor! ... hmm :-\

 

[Don Haines]

Eventually I want to be using a 40MP crop sensor, but for now I'd be happy with something like 28. Anything less than 21 would be disappointing.

40MP on a crop sensor! ... hmm :-\

Scale up the sensor from the SX-50 and you get 115Mpixels on APS-C or 303Mpixels for FF.....

Scale up an iPad sensor..... hmmmmm.... gigapixels!

 

[Diko]

Diko ... WOW, 9 quotes in one post ... Impressed. Man I struggle with just a couple of quotes, screwing up and modifying my posts most of the time.

What can I say? : I am furious with Canon. Photo-shooting is a hobby of mine and no work.
I am currently on a 40D ONLY! I need a very urgent upgrade.

I am far away from 1Dx :-( For all the rest of the devices only 6D seems "a little" OK. And yet far away from what I need.

I am furious with Canon.

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

 

[CarlTN]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

 

[rs]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

you have not a clue what you are talking about, as long the pixel density is higher in a APS than a 24x36 there are many people who has advantage of the smaller sensor, bird photographer, etc

TC?

 

[rizenphoenix]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

you have not a clue what you are talking about, as long the pixel density is higher in a APS than a 24x36 there are many people who has advantage of the smaller sensor, bird photographer, etc

TC?

Those fit on crops too.

 

[BrettS]

you have not a clue what you are talking about

Mikael, I would suggest to you that you could contribute better by exercising more tact in your communications.

 

[jrista]

nothing will be better with a TC, and then we are not talking about the advantage of the smaller pixels and resolution and the same lens.

TC also on the APS- and then?

Sorry, but that is just plain wrong. If you slap a teleconverter on a lens, regardless of what sensor you are using, you increase the focal length. Your OPTICAL power has improved, and now you are putting MORE PIXELS ON THE SUBJECT. More pixels on subject is better regardless of how you achieve it. A teleconverter might introduce slight additional softening, but if it gets you significantly "closer" to your subject thanks to a greater magnification, that additional softness can't possibly be worse than having to crop significantly.

Adding a TC is valuable, be it with a low density FF or a high density APS-C....if you cannot physically get closer to your subject, you can't really do better than moving to a longer focal length. Getting closer is better, but it is not always an option, and when it is not an option, a teleconverter is often the cheapest, if not the only, option for increasing the size of your subject relative to the frame.

As a simple example, I'd happily go with a 300mm f/4 L IS + 1.4x TC rather than a 400mm f/5.6 L. Not because the 300mm has IS, but because with a 1.4x TC you get 420mm out of it. The extra focal length will offset the slight drop in IQ...you'll get more pixels on subject, not a lot, but enough to be useful, with the subject being 10% larger in the frame. Plus...you still have the IS, so its still better all around than the 400mm f/5.6 L as you won't also have softening due to camera shake. Similarly, I'd take a 600mm f/4 L + 1.4x TC on a 7D any day over the 800mm f/5.6 L on a 5D III...the 600/1.4/7D combo will pack on far more pixels than the 5D III setup. (As soon as f/8 AF is available on the 5D III, my sentiments there will likely change...600mm + 2x TC + 5D III would then become a better 1200mm setup with superior AF.)

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

Diko ... WOW, 9 quotes in one post ... Impressed. Man I struggle with just a couple of quotes, screwing up and modifying my posts most of the time.

What can I say? : I am furious with Canon. Photo-shooting is a hobby of mine and no work.
I am currently on a 40D ONLY! I need a very urgent upgrade. This is your hobby, not your work. You do not have NEEDS. You have WANTS

I am far away from 1Dx :-( For all the rest of the devices only 6D seems "a little" OK. And yet far away from what I need. Repeat, you do not have NEEDS. The 1dx is the top end PRO gear, made for PROS that do have NEEDS. Even with that said, only the elite pros are using the 1dx. Contrary to popular belief, most photographers are quite poor. Also, the 1dx is a bit overkill for even wedding photographers - while the increased low light capabilities would be awesome, the 1dx is a frames per second machine and that's why its so pricey!!! For a hobby shooter, I'd think any 1-3k slr should be just fine for you.

I am furious with Canon. WHY??????

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

Not to be blunt...but...look in the quote....ugggg

 

[9VIII]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

If the 7D2 is going to shoot 21MP at 10FPS it's going to need dual Digic just as much as the 1Dx (I guess maybe they could just use a bigger buffer instead).

Crop sensors can be preferable to teleconverters since they don't lose any light, which would be very detrimental to AF on some lenses.

How much you want your sensor cropped is always a balance, APS-C is what people are used to on Canon so it wouldn't be terrible if they stick with it.

 

[wickidwombat]

18 MP. 21 MP. 24 MP. Even 15 MP. Frankly, I don't especially care. If it does a full stop or more better in terms of high ISO noise performance for RAW images vs. the 7D, a 7DII will be interesting to me. If not, no interest.

+1
but also base iso noise issues need to be resovled
if the noise follows recent trends of becoming more filmy than blocky digital noise it will help greatly
as the noise from the newer sensors responds alot better to NR than the current 18MP range do

 

[gecko]

All this just makes me wonder how long it will be before some innovative company comes along and 'Black Magics' Canon, with an EF mount body having something like 1DX performance at a 70D price.

Makes me smile just thinking about it 8) Especially if that "Black Magic" body incorporated the Sony/D800 type FF sensor and came with the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 as kit lens, but in full frame version. One can dream..

......and Magic Lantern supplying the software.

Would be a dream body.

 

[Zv]

I think we can all safely agree that the next generation of DSLR from Canon really needs to be NEXT GENERATION for most of us to even want to upgrade!

Personally I think neither 70D or 7D II will have ground breaking tech other than just "the latest version".

It's what's in the pipeline after these two releases I'm interested in ....

 

[mkabi]

Rumor or not.

Reality is... the t4i caught up with everything the 60D and 7D had to offer.

So there is a definite need for a serious upgrade, and weather sealing won't just cut it anymore.

 

[Dart23]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

Why would "dual digic 6" = $3k+ range? Doesn't the new SX280 with digic 6 come in at $320?

 

[jebrady03]

And why didn't they bring the 70D already, since it is overdue after 2 1/2 years, when Canon has all the stuff they need (including sensor) ready. It looks to me (and I hope so), that they are delaying the 70D so they can introduce it with the new sensor.

Who said it was overdue and/or that they're delaying the 70D? Internet expectations? Or Canon? Perhaps Canon believes they're ahead of schedule. Because other than some not-so-vague comments from Canon employees who were put on the spot, I don't recall reading/hearing anything about the 70D or the 7D2 especially in regards to an impending announcement or due date.

So again, are these YOUR expectations from reading a RUMORS site, or are these missed deadlines that Canon has self-imposed? Obviously a rhetorical question...

If you would have takeen yourself more time to read, then you would have probably realized, that I wrote "It looks to me", so it was not even a rethorical question you wrote, it was just not a very intelligent question, because it just showed, that you did not read what I wrote.

When choosing to question someone's intelligence, you should really proofread your own post for misspellings, proper grammar, and proper punctuation to insure you look as intelligent as possible.

Additionally, don't try to hide behind "it looks to me" - you know my comment applied perfectly to you (and many, MANY others on this forum so I'm not just singling you out - I just happened to quote your post) with or without the inclusion of that minimally applicable qualifier.

Finally, you should avoid insults and stick to facts. However I see from your acceptance of rumors as quasi-facts that this may be difficult for you.

 

[mb66energy]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

Why would "dual digic 6" = $3k+ range? Doesn't the new SX280 with digic 6 come in at $320?

I see several reasons:
* Programming a firmware which uses two or more CPUs needs a lot of development to parallelize "jobs" on different CPUs
* PC board layout and thermal management has to be codeveloped/improved
* If there is a need for a 2nd CPU the hardware is more powerful (120point AF system, 40 MPix sensor) and this will increase the system cost.

A specialized camera will see a lower count of bodies produced so the development cost will be higher on a per-body-perspective.

My 2ct.

 

[jrista]

I hope for the best about 7D2: new dual DIGIC 6 and new CMOS (NEW Technolgy, NOT the same CMOS as on 1DX, 5D3 edition customized for 7D2).


10x!

No need to be "furious with Canon". And where did you read a rumor that the 7D2 would get "dual digic 6"? I must have missed that. Seems very unlikely to me, unless the price is more in the $3k+ range. Which would be absurd...a 1.6x crop sensor is a silly compromise in the first place (at least now in 2013). To attempt to sell one at such a high price, would be a disaster. 1.6x crop, is so very 2002...it's time to move on to something else, something bigger. I mean, if "reach" is all they care about, they might as well go smaller and make a micro 4/3 size, 3:2 sensor for the 7D2. But they won't.

Why would "dual digic 6" = $3k+ range? Doesn't the new SX280 with digic 6 come in at $320?

I see several reasons:
* Programming a firmware which uses two or more CPUs needs a lot of development to parallelize "jobs" on different CPUs
* PC board layout and thermal management has to be codeveloped/improved
* If there is a need for a 2nd CPU the hardware is more powerful (120point AF system, 40 MPix sensor) and this will increase the system cost.

A specialized camera will see a lower count of bodies produced so the development cost will be higher on a per-body-perspective.

My 2ct.

You do realize the current 7D Mark I already uses dual DIGIC 4 chips, right? It never cost $2000, let alone $3000. Making use of dual processors in a 7D II would be a no brainer, and would NOT require the creation of DIGIC 6. The 1D X already uses dual DIGIC 5+ chips, and repurposing that design in a cheaper body would be a hell of a lot cheaper for Canon than designing something completely new from scratch. It also proves that the firmware ALREADY supports parallel processing, so there really isn't any extra work there, either.