4K DSLR?
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filmrebel said:
They mentioned it and showed prototype pictures during the Nov. 3rd announcement of the C300 and said at that point that it should be out within a year. Also the patent for 4k raw video was submitted in July 2010, so its most likely been in development for quite some time.
I'm not sure if they'll announce it alongside the 5D Mark III, but they may at least give us some specs/release date to stop video shooters from buying the 5DIII. It would be pretty frustrating if a bunch of people went out and bought the 5DIII only to have a better solution arrive just a few months later. Not sure how Canon will play this one.
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In my opinion, it is highly unlikely they will do a 4K DSLR. I really doubt they would make a $16,000 camera for professional (digital) filmmaking (the C300), and leave out the most expensive and pro features, only to put them in a cheaper, harder to use, still photography camera.
My bet is that it will feature the same codec and definition as the C300, minus the "camcorder" features... a mixture between the C300 and a 5D. I expect the video quality to be slightly worse than the C300, since the sensor of the camcorder is made-for-video with the exact pixel count for that, and the video DSLR we're talking about probably will have a higher pixel count, 8mp (4K) is too low for still photography standards.
That's what I think at least.
My bet is that it will feature the same codec and definition as the C300, minus the "camcorder" features... a mixture between the C300 and a 5D. I expect the video quality to be slightly worse than the C300, since the sensor of the camcorder is made-for-video with the exact pixel count for that, and the video DSLR we're talking about probably will have a higher pixel count, 8mp (4K) is too low for still photography standards.
That's what I think at least.
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Nick Gombinsky said:
Since Canon showed a protype and announced its development already, why are you in denial?
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daveswan
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Nick Gombinsky said:
Different tool for different jobs.
The C-300 is more of a broadcast-friendly cam with a well known codec and all the inputs / outputs that the broadcast world needs, sort of a poor-man's Alexa.
I see the putative C-DSLR as a pure image-making instrument, with only basic (if that) sound but with very strong codec. They were talking about 4K MJPEG from a 4K crop of a FF sensor (Approx "H" IIRC), with no down-sampling of any kind
If you want an analagy, think of a screwdriver and chisel. they may look superficially similer (Esp a narrow bladed chisel) but are designed for very different jobs, and trying to use one for the other is hard work at least, a recipe for disaster at worst.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
It's not that I'm in denial, I'd love it to happen, but the numbers just don't add up. Besides, you can try to have something done in a prototype, it doesn't mean it will have that feature in the final product.
I've been filming a lot the couple of years with a 5D/7D and a whole rig with matte box and follow focus made for them... and we've gotten used to using it... but that doesn't make it an industry standard. It is very uncomfortable to use as a video camera. Why oh why would Canon answer the filmmaking industry with a camcorder with some great specs, only to put the remaining specs in a DSLR?
IF it does 4K, compression will be too high in order to be able to store it in a CF card. Or maybe they'll use QXD and solve that... too many variables.
I'm actually looking forward to the normal 5D mkIII, I think it will have a better price/performance ratio.
And I'm saying this from a "I use my Canon DSLR for video more than for stills" position.
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Nick Gombinsky said:
Canon does not make press releases or take prototypes around to trade shows unless they already have a design and are tweaking it,
It is a DSLR form, and a FF sensor with video extracted from a APS-H sized crop of the sensor. Expect it to be expensive though.
The protptype is in a 1 series body, so dual CF cards can be expected, and they are available in 128GB sizes now, at 150 MB/sec speeds, larger and faster than any current QXD, so thats not a likely factor.
It is obviously not intended to be the ultimate cinema machine, but certainly adequate for broadcast use, amd will find its way into indie films.
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tt
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
This may be a silly question - but if it's a FF sensor but using an APS-H sized crop of it - could they use larger pixel sizes and just have it be an APS-H sensor in the first place, or would that optically not work? We've only seen a 1DX with a C sticker on it so far presumably?
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
that doesn't answer my question. why can't a 1Dx do it? heck why can't a 15K C300 do it? have you seen the kind of storage arrays for the RED cameras? is canon going to do something similar? I am so skeptical you'll put a CF card and be good to go.
also what's up with this
"a frame rate of 24P, with Motion-JPEG compression"
Mjpeg....they mean like nikon's D90? ugh.
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daveswan
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My understanding is that the FF sensor will output I-Frame H264 while the "H" crop will output 4K. "H" format is slightly bigger than S35, so you have the best of both options.
The Pentax K5 outpute MJPEG at 75 mbps and is reconned to be pretty damn good, only the daft exposure options hlding it back, and there is 90 mbps MJPEG hack fro (I think) the GH2 that is pretty spectacular.
Now if this is scaled up, we get 360 mbps, which just happens to equate to the "6min to fill a 16 gig card" that Chuck Westfall reported in early reports (On dpreview I think) of the 1Dx, which might have actually been a test mule for the C-DSLR.
So I'm cautiously optimistic, and really don't thick Canon would screw up such an important cam with a crippled codec.
The Pentax K5 outpute MJPEG at 75 mbps and is reconned to be pretty damn good, only the daft exposure options hlding it back, and there is 90 mbps MJPEG hack fro (I think) the GH2 that is pretty spectacular.
Now if this is scaled up, we get 360 mbps, which just happens to equate to the "6min to fill a 16 gig card" that Chuck Westfall reported in early reports (On dpreview I think) of the 1Dx, which might have actually been a test mule for the C-DSLR.
So I'm cautiously optimistic, and really don't thick Canon would screw up such an important cam with a crippled codec.
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the C300 can't do it because it's using a much-less-than-spectacular Digic-DV-III processor: years old, and you can also find it nowadays in consumer camcorders that sell for about $200
my guess is that the 1DX can't do it for a similar reason (digic 5 not able to record 4K video stream)
for previous models, add also that the sensor read-out is not fast enough, so they have to use line-skipping to avoid extreme rolling shutter issues (on a 7D and its little brothers, the sensor readout is around 60ms, cut to 20ms by reading only one out of every 3 rows, which leaves you with 972 lines read in 16:9 format)
my guess is that the 1DX can't do it for a similar reason (digic 5 not able to record 4K video stream)
for previous models, add also that the sensor read-out is not fast enough, so they have to use line-skipping to avoid extreme rolling shutter issues (on a 7D and its little brothers, the sensor readout is around 60ms, cut to 20ms by reading only one out of every 3 rows, which leaves you with 972 lines read in 16:9 format)
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RED records RAW video, but there's still a codec - just as .CR2 files have a codec (a way to arrange the bits so your computer can understand them)
if you refer to "lossy codec", RED's codec applies very moderate wavelet intra-frame compression (lossy, but visually flawless)
if you refer to "lossy codec", RED's codec applies very moderate wavelet intra-frame compression (lossy, but visually flawless)
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