5D III Dynamic Range

[RMC33]

Aglet, why u no Nikon already? My take after eating my popcorn.

Aglet - There is FPN on 5D2 files.

General response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Here is a file that shows the FPN.

General Response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Well Prove me wrong! supply me photos!

General Response - Here's some photos. Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - That doesn't mean nothing!

Rlphoto - :| Pass the popcorn.

This^.

I get great shots out of my 5d2.

/boggle

Just know what the tool can and can't do. Its like using a pair of pliers to pull nails.. sure it works but a Crowbar (My group of friends refers to it as a Gordon Freeman) works MUCH better.

 

[dlleno]

popcorn consuming "group 4" comment coming --

I think we should create a support group for those who insist on lifting shadows 4 stops as a common or even best practice to create compelling, high quality photos (Better yet, a workshop on how to create compelling, high quality photos). Let such a group concentrate on whatever is necessary to re-train its members how to study light and apply the tools in their hands to create great results. RL's hillarious summary should appear as an FAQ, and be included in the sylabus of a required workshop/class. TrumpetPower's examples, along with many others, can be used as inspiration.

I note that the OP raised a perfectly reasonable question that should have resulted in a normal conversation. instead we got:

OP: how can I make use of my 5D3 to make better photos in HDR scenarios
shadow junkies: I think the 5D2 is junk cause I can't lift shadows as far as I want

I would urge that we concentrate on the questions posed by the likes of the OP, so that the conversation goes more like this:

OP: how can I make use of my 5D3 to make great photos
forum: I study the light and apply <these techniques>

 

[marinien]

Ah, welcome back Mikael.

Why do we see extreme tele reach in some "superzoom" compact cameras? Do they only accomplish this through compromised IQ, or do they gain something from the small sensors used?

Ok, take the SX50 HS, FF-equivalent of 1200mm at the long end. But, it's not a 1200mm lens - it's a 215mm lens that's f/6.5 at the long end. The small sensor gives a 215mm lens the FoV of a much longer lens used on a FF camera, but focal length is an intrinsic property of the lens. The SX50 lens isn't a true telephoto design, but even if it were, that would mean only a 33mm diameter front element.

well it is the density of the pixels on a specified area, nothing else

Indeed, welcome back, Mikael!

 

[Aglet]

So, I give you a nighttime shot with a classic 5D with a very wide dynamic range and shadows lifted at least a couple, maybe a few stops (I honestly don't remember)...and that's not enough to tell you what you need to know?

why the heck would I want to use your 5dc to compare to my 5d2?!?
only thing they've got in common is the "5" and a tripod mount!
You telling me you'd ask for samples of my 5d2 file and would be satisfied if I gave you a 5dc instead?!?
who's got the fundamental understanding problem here?
I've got a dozen other bodies I can compare it to, I'm asking for 5D2 samples, as outlined.
You really are not good at following instructions. :

What, do you think the 5DII has worse noise than the classic?

don't know, don't care about 5dc

Do you only shoot grey cards and not actual photographs? Have you ever actually wanted to lift shadows more than the extreme amount I did in that shot?

yawn...
re-read your own reply before you post it - edit, re-read, edit, re-read... go have some popcorn

 

[Aglet]

Aglet, why u no Nikon already? My take after eating my popcorn.

Aglet - There is FPN on 5D2 files.

General response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Here is a file that shows the FPN.

General Response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Well Prove me wrong! supply me photos!

General Response - Here's some photos. Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - That doesn't mean nothing!

Rlphoto - :| Pass the popcorn.

Actually, my FF gear is now Nikon, but that's not the point either.
FPN on my 5d2 showed up at less than a 2-stop push applied to levels that should have been high enough to not exhibit a problem (e.g. -3 EV down from metered)

Repeating for (who's keeping track of how many times now?)
If anyone of you 5d2-lovers actually HAS one, and are brave enough to show, or at least TELL, us how it performs in simple tests, as outlined a pg or 2 back, then please do so. (RL?...)
I'd like to compare it to mine, which might have been a bit of a lemon in the FPN area.
If you're willing to post a sample of a pushed raw file, kindly include a full res crop so we can see pixel-per-pixel, not scaled down so small as to obliterate FPN in the averaging.
Thank-you.

 

[dlleno]

ok so guys are saying you want the thread to go this way:

OP: help me use my 5D3 better in HDR situations
forum: you dont' understand physics; you're camera is junk

how does that help? why do we have to answer reasonable request on how to use a Canon camera with a sensor bomb that Nikon does DR better? help the OP for pete's sake and move the physics discussions to another thread please. Those discussions (about sensor physics) are valuable and I want to see them - just not in response to a question about how to use a camera that is branded according to the charter of this site.

 

[David Hull]

ok so guys are saying you want the thread to go this way:

OP: help me use my 5D3 better in HDR situations
forum: you dont' understand physics; you're camera is junk

how does that help? why do we have to answer reasonable request on how to use a Canon camera with a sensor bomb that Nikon does DR better? help the OP for pete's sake and move the physics discussions to another thread please. Those discussions (about sensor physics) are valuable and I want to see them - just not in response to a question about how to use a camera that is branded according to the charter of this site.

The question was answered several times -- I answered it in te 8th reply. He probably got his answer, took his popcorn and moved on.

 

[dlleno]

The question was answered several times -- I answered it in te 8th reply. He probably got his answer, took his popcorn and moved on.

yes, to be sure. I just wanted subsequent answers to stay more on topic as well, but thats just my "group 4" tendancy showing. Cue mention of Sony DR, shadow lifting, Canon noise/banding, why it happens, how bad Canon sensors are, etc. and examples of the same that don't help the OP. long live the internet, popcorn, mutiple personas and welcome back Mikael

.

 

[J.R.]

The question was answered several times -- I answered it in te 8th reply. He probably got his answer, took his popcorn and moved on.

yes, to be sure. I just wanted subsequent answers to stay more on topic as well, but thats just my "group 4" tendancy showing. Cue mention of Sony DR, shadow lifting, Canon noise/banding, why it happens, how bad Canon sensors are, etc. and examples of the same that don't help the OP. long live the internet, popcorn, mutiple personas and welcome back Mikael

.

+1

I agree that such comments don't help the OP and I'm not too sure whom these comments help even otherwise (save a few gearheads). People around here make have so much noise (pun intended) on the Canon sensors to the point of calling the cameras "useless" only because you can't recover 5 stops or that you get FPN when you do try to recover 5 stops. Does it may a discernible difference to your images which are correctly exposed? Do your clients notice the FPN? or rather ... do your clients ask you to recover the image 5 stops? GEEZ

One wonders why they are sticking to Canon at all, if the cameras sensors were really "useless" as alleged.

 

[davidson]

i think my popcorn booth got shut down for some reason..dunno why. So from now i will be selling popcorn from the back of the butter yellow panel van over there under the bridge all inconspicuous-like. knock three times, then twice more for the buttery goodness....

 

[deletemyaccount]

i think my popcorn booth got shut down for some reason..dunno why. So from now i will be selling popcorn from the back of the butter yellow panel van over there under the bridge all inconspicuous-like. knock three times, then twice more for the buttery goodness....

That made me laugh hard davidson! Nice touch!

 

[RMC33]

i think my popcorn booth got shut down for some reason..dunno why. So from now i will be selling popcorn from the back of the butter yellow panel van over there under the bridge all inconspicuous-like. knock three times, then twice more for the buttery goodness....

I wonder if the banding and other issues (that you can work around) would show up in photos of your van?

 

[wickidwombat]

i think my popcorn booth got shut down for some reason..dunno why. So from now i will be selling popcorn from the back of the butter yellow panel van over there under the bridge all inconspicuous-like. knock three times, then twice more for the buttery goodness....

I wonder if the banding and other issues (that you can work around) would show up in photos of your van?

no because being buttery yellow its a Nikon van and hence doesnt have banding. DxO gave it the highest score for popcorn vans

 

[RMC33]

i think my popcorn booth got shut down for some reason..dunno why. So from now i will be selling popcorn from the back of the butter yellow panel van over there under the bridge all inconspicuous-like. knock three times, then twice more for the buttery goodness....

I wonder if the banding and other issues (that you can work around) would show up in photos of your van?

no because being buttery yellow its a Nikon van and hence doesnt have banding. DxO gave it the highest score for popcorn vans

OH MAH SIDES!

Since when did DxO rate popcorn vans?

 

[dlleno]

its just too good, guys. just too good!

 

[RLPhoto]

Aglet, why u no Nikon already? My take after eating my popcorn.

Aglet - There is FPN on 5D2 files.

General response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Here is a file that shows the FPN.

General Response - Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - Well Prove me wrong! supply me photos!

General Response - Here's some photos. Don't lift the shadows +3 stops. 5D2 is a fantastic camera.

Aglet - That doesn't mean nothing!

Rlphoto - :| Pass the popcorn.

Actually, my FF gear is now Nikon, but that's not the point either.
FPN on my 5d2 showed up at less than a 2-stop push applied to levels that should have been high enough to not exhibit a problem (e.g. -3 EV down from metered)

Repeating for (who's keeping track of how many times now?)
If anyone of you 5d2-lovers actually HAS one, and are brave enough to show, or at least TELL, us how it performs in simple tests, as outlined a pg or 2 back, then please do so. (RL?...)
I'd like to compare it to mine, which might have been a bit of a lemon in the FPN area.
If you're willing to post a sample of a pushed raw file, kindly include a full res crop so we can see pixel-per-pixel, not scaled down so small as to obliterate FPN in the averaging.
Thank-you.

Don't blame the tools for poor craftsmanship. Infact, since the d800 is doing so well for you, let's see some photos you've taken with it. Please do post.

 

[CarlTN]

RMC33, I've not tried the Zeiss 50 1.4. I own the Voigtlander 58mm Nokton, Nikon mount, use an adaptor. From what I have seen online, if you want some of the best, if not the best bokeh at 50mm, then the Canon f/1.2 is it. If you want sharpness, I like the one I have. The 24-70 f/2.8 mk2 was recently found by Lensrentals, to be sharper than the Zeiss 50mm f/2 makro planar, which in turn is a lot sharper than the Zeiss 50 1.4. I've not tried any of those, myself. I've only rented the Zeiss 100mm f/2 makro planar, and the Zeiss 35mm f/2. The 100mm had very vivid red colors, was very sharp, with a tiny bit of purple bokeh fringing...with bokeh smoothness on par with my 135L, which is saying a lot (it has no fringing of any kind, as you may know). The 35mm Zeiss was neutral color, more contrast than the sensor could bear (had to underexpose), no fringing lateral or bokeh, and quite sharp (supposedly the 1.4 is sharper.) I mostly don't do portraiture, at least not of people. I should at some point...it's just that I don't like people very much, and more importantly, they don't like me taking their picture for some reason...hahaha. Not sure which happened first! I need to work on my people skills...

 

[RMC33]

RMC33, I've not tried the Zeiss 50 1.4. I own the Voigtlander 58mm Nokton, Nikon mount, use an adaptor. From what I have seen online, if you want some of the best, if not the best bokeh at 50mm, then the Canon f/1.2 is it. If you want sharpness, I like the one I have. The 24-70 f/2.8 mk2 was recently found by Lensrentals, to be sharper than the Zeiss 50mm f/2 makro planar, which in turn is a lot sharper than the Zeiss 50 1.4. I've not tried any of those, myself. I've only rented the Zeiss 100mm f/2 makro planar, and the Zeiss 35mm f/2. The 100mm had very vivid red colors, was very sharp, with a tiny bit of purple bokeh fringing...with bokeh smoothness on par with my 135L, which is saying a lot (it has no fringing of any kind, as you may know). The 35mm Zeiss was neutral color, more contrast than the sensor could bear (had to underexpose), no fringing lateral or bokeh, and quite sharp (supposedly the 1.4 is sharper.) I mostly don't do portraiture, at least not of people. I should at some point...it's just that I don't like people very much, and more importantly, they don't like me taking their picture for some reason...hahaha. Not sure which happened first! I need to work on my people skills...

Gotcha! Thanks.

I will be getting both the Canon f/1.2 Zeiss f/1.4 50's to compare and see what will replace my current Canon 50 f/1.4. My current 50 does not AF anymore (died last night) but is about 6 years old. My biggest concern is the Focus shift in the Canon 50 f/1.2, but I think Neuro made a good point as to find the f/stop you like and AFMA it at that point. I have been told/read the Zeiss does not have any shift and have been using MF on my current 50 for the last year since it started to die hence my reason for asking.

I am not much for primes below 50 but have been considering a few (Canon 14 and 24) as well as finally buying a TS-E for all the Real estate I do (not sure if it will be a 17 or 24 yet).

On the note of the 24-70 MKII, I will be CPS renting one for two weeks for a wedding I will be attending. I am going to bring my MK1 and MK2 and just play around. I have been told on a MK3/1Dx the AF routines in the Mk2 make it focus much faster and more accurate then the older Mk1. Its impressive that the 24-70 is sharper then a prime but I guess Ill just have to see what I like=).

Thanks for the great response!

 

[Aglet]

Don't blame the tools for poor craftsmanship. Infact, since the d800 is doing so well for you, let's see some photos you've taken with it. Please do post.

I've posted heavily adjusted d800 shots on here last year. They're awesome.
Can't do that with a 5d2!! no bloody way at all
I could tell you where to look ... but...

Let's see you post something from your fabulous 5d2... Like some of those test shots I requested.

 

[Aglet]

..only because you can't recover 5 stops or that you get FPN when you do try to recover 5 stops. Does it may a discernible difference to your images which are correctly exposed? Do your clients notice the FPN? or rather ... do your clients ask you to recover the image 5 stops? GEEZ

One wonders why they are sticking to Canon at all, if the cameras sensors were really "useless" as alleged.

nobody's asked to recover 5 stops in this thread.
I found my camera would show FPN with less than TWO stops of push on shades as high as -3EV to start with, even worse on a -5EV shade pushed 2 stops.
I'd like to see someone who has a 5d2 post some samples, as I described back on (now) pg 7 I think.

I've kept my older Canon bodies that perform well. I've tossed mt 5d2 and 7D, they both had horrendous FPN. Sort of miss the AF and fps of the latter but not the low iso IQ of either.
Nikon and Pentax are satisfying those low IQ requirements very nicely now. And their hi iso is PDG too.
I have neither time or patience to work around the limitations of an inferior tool like the 5d2, much as i otherwise liked it and other Canon kit.