5D MkIV battery % is easily thrown off, shows lower than actual life left

[Kit Lens Jockey]

For a while I have been pretty alarmed by the rate at which my 5D4 was draining batteries. It had gotten to the point where I was thinking that there must be something wrong with the camera. There were times when it would be down to about 75% after taking only about 15 photos. But, recently I also realized that even a freshly charged battery would show only about 75% when it was loaded into the camera, so I knew that something was a little fishy.

It's important to note that I'm using 3rd party batteries, but a brand that always seemed to work well in my 5D3. However, it's also important to understand that I normally keep my batteries charged up before every time I go out with the camera. I mean, why would you not?

Well, I'm now realizing that this habit of always charging the batteries seems to severely throw off the 5D4's estimate of remaining battery life. And I don't recall the 5D3 having this much of an issue with it.

I came to this conclusion because I decided that it would be good to just try letting a battery actually run down in the camera to see how long it would truly last, regardless of how fast the camera said the battery was going down. And I'm happy to report that, even though the battery level reported in the camera dropped steeply off in the beginning, I kept shooting without charging the battery over a few days, and the camera has been consistently revising the percentage up higher as the battery got used up.

It seems as though not letting the batteries go very low was really skewing how much capacity the camera thought the battery had. There was one point at which I went out, took some photos, ran the battery down to about 12%, left the camera set overnight with the battery in it, and when I went back to it the next day, the reported battery percentage had shot back up to thirty-something percent.

All in all, I shot a little over 700 photos on one battery (with minimal chimping), despite an initial steep decline in battery percentage which made me think it wouldn't even be able to make it to 100. It was still showing about 8%, but I was in the middle of taking photos and did not want to have the camera actually die on me, so I swapped the battery at that point.

So, I guess this post is more of just a notice that, especially if you're using third party batteries, if you are constantly topping off your battery after only one or two hundred photos, the 5D4 seems to get very confused about how much battery is truly left, and may cause needless worry about a quickly draining battery. Like I said, I don't recall this happening when using similar batteries in similar ways in the 5D3.

 

[Pookie]

Third party batteries.... this can be a major problem.

I had an office assistant order some Wasabi's thinking she was saving us money. Didn't find out the problem until on the job. Twenty minutes into a wedding and two of my second shooters with 5D3's were scrambling for new batteries. When I gave them some of my OEM's the problem was solved. Found out the Wasabi's would discharge almost the second they came off the charger. With any use they were down to half capacity with less than 100 images of use. True garbage... wouldn't ever trust third party batteries in any of my gear... EVER.

Kind of like being cheapy tripods that break... buy one, then two, then three. Buy quality, buy RRS or Gitzo and buy once. It isn't worth your time or money to save a buck and worry about $hite products while working.

 

[Labdoc]

Are you using a particular brand of 3rd party battery? I am using 3 year old Wasabi brand with the Canon charger/5Dmk4 and see no difference from the provided OEM batteries. Always have the OEM as backup if they screw up. I'm running 8 batteries 4 OEM/4 Wasabi in a battery grip. Always pair the batteries when new, been lucky so far.

The batteries get initialized by the camera somehow and it reports the charge level and lifespan. I don't know if it's just a calculation from a measure of current and resistance or if the battery has a chip. This process like a lot of other 3rd party reverse engineered items is the risk you take going off brand. Been using Canon OEM for 10 years, no problems.

Happy you got it figured out. Thanks for the post.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

Third party batteries.... this can be a major problem.

I had an office assistant order some Wasabi's thinking she was saving us money. Didn't find out the problem until on the job. Twenty minutes into a wedding and two of my second shooters with 5D3's were scrambling for new batteries. When I gave them some of my OEM's the problem was solved. Found out the Wasabi's would discharge almost the second they came off the charger. With any use they were down to half capacity with less than 100 images of use. True garbage... wouldn't ever trust third party batteries in any of my gear... EVER.

Kind of like being cheapy tripods that break... buy one, then two, then three. Buy quality, buy RRS or Gitzo and buy once. It isn't worth your time or money to save a buck and worry about $hite products while working.

That's the thing though, as I said, I wasn't actually scrambling for a new battery. It still lasted for over 700 photos, it just didn't seem like it would.

All in all I am very pleased with the batteries and relieved that the camera ultimately seems to work fine. I'll be curious to see if the percentage reported by the camera becomes more realistic now that I've actually allowed the battery to get low. I'm hoping the camera learned the battery better now that I've done this.

But at $14 per battery compared to whatever Canon charges, I'll gladly deal with a little bit of inaccuracy in the battery percentage if I know that the battery is still ultimately good for 700+ photos.

They were these batteries:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DEHVC8

Honestly I'm getting incredibly weary of all of the anti third party accessories sentiment. I guess it's all I should expect on a forum devoted to Canon. I understand, it's OEM, technically it's better. But the Canon battery is about $64 right now. Is it really more than four times as good? I guess if you're relying on it professionally it is. But if I have a third party battery that I've used for a while and have been happy with it, I would trust it. Sometimes in an industry as subjective as photography, I feel like we get too wrapped up in theoretical benefits of more expensive gear.

 

[Random Orbits]

Honestly I'm getting incredibly weary of all of the anti third party accessories sentiment. I guess it's all I should expect on a forum devoted to Canon. I understand, it's OEM, technically it's better. But the Canon battery is about $64 right now. Is it really more than four times as good? I guess if you're relying on it professionally it is. But if I have a third party battery that I've used for a while and have been happy with it, I would trust it. Sometimes in an industry as subjective as photography, I feel like we get too wrapped up in theoretical benefits of more expensive gear.

The decision is yours. You are choosing a lower price to maximize your value, and this works as long as the 3rd party battery works. However, there have been reports of 3rd party batteries not working after a firmware update. How much are those batteries worth then? At 1/4 the price, you could buy new 3rd party batteries that work for with the new firmware, but for others the potential incompatibility and hassles cost more than the savings in the cost of the batteries.

More recently, I had a photographer friend who received a 3rd party battery grip for her camera. She attached it, turned the camera on and shorted out a circuit board in the camera (Nikon). She ended up paying much more than the cost of the battery grip to have it fixed and the camera was out of her hands for 3-4 weeks. Now, if it was a first party grip, then the case could be made that Nikon should cover the repair cost because of their defective product...

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

By this logic, one could argue that it's unwise to buy a Rebel, because at some point it may get rained on, and something could short out inside the camera, ruining it. How much is that camera worth now that it's water damaged?

Now, had you spent more money bought a 1DX II, it probably would not have shorted out. So, only buy a 1DX II, not a Rebel, because its lower quality might cause a large failure down the road.

More expensive items will always be more reliable and less prone to fail than less expensive ones. But where do you draw the line? I guess I am just not that swayed by the argument that one time something bad happened with a third party accessory and therefore you should never touch a third party accessory, which of course excludes the fact that one time something bad probably happened with an OEM accessory out of warranty as well.

Anyway, this thread was supposed to just be helpful info about the 5D4 and batteries. It's just shocking how quickly it degenerated into bashing of third party battery life when I never even indicated that the actual life of my batteries was poor.

 

[Random Orbits]

By this logic, one could argue that it's unwise to buy a Rebel, because at some point it may get rained on, and something could short out inside the camera, ruining it. How much is that camera worth now that it's water damaged?

Now, had you spent more money bought a 1DX II, it probably would not have shorted out. So, only buy a 1DX II, not a Rebel, because its lower quality might cause a large failure down the road.

More expensive items will always be more reliable and less prone to fail than less expensive ones. But where do you draw the line? I guess I am just not that swayed by the argument that one time something bad happened with a third party accessory and therefore you should never touch a third party accessory, which of course excludes the fact that one time something bad probably happened with an OEM accessory out of warranty as well.

Anyway, this thread was supposed to just be helpful info about the 5D4 and batteries. It's just shocking how quickly it degenerated into bashing of third party battery life when I never even indicated that the actual life of my batteries was poor.

Actually, no. Neither the Rebel nor the 1DX II are rated for water, and both are out of warranty if water gets in.

It would be interesting to see if your batteries stabilize in reporting accuracy over time, but your experience so far is that the in-camera battery meter and the 3rd party batteries are not compatible, which is giving you inaccurate readings. I charge my batteries when it's convenient or when I know they'll be used heavily the next day (even when they're > 70%), but I haven't had the weird readings that you are having. What does the OEM battery that CAME with your camera do?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

By this logic, one could argue that it's unwise to buy a Rebel, because at some point it may get rained on, and something could short out inside the camera, ruining it. How much is that camera worth now that it's water damaged?

Now, had you spent more money bought a 1DX II, it probably would not have shorted out. So, only buy a 1DX II, not a Rebel, because its lower quality might cause a large failure down the road.

More expensive items will always be more reliable and less prone to fail than less expensive ones. But where do you draw the line? I guess I am just not that swayed by the argument that one time something bad happened with a third party accessory and therefore you should never touch a third party accessory, which of course excludes the fact that one time something bad probably happened with an OEM accessory out of warranty as well.

Anyway, this thread was supposed to just be helpful info about the 5D4 and batteries. It's just shocking how quickly it degenerated into bashing of third party battery life when I never even indicated that the actual life of my batteries was poor.

Third party battery life is not the issue, if they die, or the camera gets incorrect remaining life from the battery, that comes with the money saving attempt.

The primary issue of concern is safety, that's a scary issue. Aircraft have already been brought down by Li-ON batteries, Fedex and UPS ban sending them by air, USPS bans sending them on international flights, they are all scared and trying to minimize risks. Even tiny Li-on hearing implant batteries cannot be shipped by air, and go by ground. The word Li-on sends shivers thru shipping companies, because they know the risks.

Some third party batteries are safer than others, companies like Wasabi actually exist, but many batteries sold on Amazon and Ebay have a totally unknown origin and their safety is unknown.

Even name branded batteries are safety risks, Sony is a major battery manufacturer, and does all the very strict tests required by Japan, yet they are going thru a big recall after recent laptop battery fires.

Li-On batteries are dangerous, you just try to recognize it and minimize the risk to your life.

 

[YuengLinger]

So Canon is supposed to program its firmware to work with any brand of battery, however old? How about your battery maker gives you a firmware update for your new body?

And don't forget, aftermarket batteries for the 5DIII were emulating the LP-E6, not the newer, and likely differently programed, LP-E6N.

 

[hgraf]

Third party batteries.... this can be a major problem.

I had an office assistant order some Wasabi's thinking she was saving us money. Didn't find out the problem until on the job. Twenty minutes into a wedding and two of my second shooters with 5D3's were scrambling for new batteries. When I gave them some of my OEM's the problem was solved. Found out the Wasabi's would discharge almost the second they came off the charger. With any use they were down to half capacity with less than 100 images of use. True garbage... wouldn't ever trust third party batteries in any of my gear... EVER.

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't trust brand new, untried OEM batteries in the field either.

The mistake wasn't getting 3rd party batteries, the mistake was taking something untried/untested into the field. I wouldn't do this with batteries, cameras, or any other equipment (SD cards come to mind). Even for something like a rental I'd rent an extra day before the event to properly try out the equipment to make sure nothing nasty happens on "the day".

3rd party can be perfectly fine, and sometimes even better then OEM (look at some of the latest Sigma lenses). While I agree that when "work" is the reason for getting equipment a person should probably be less willing to cheap out, to completely discount anything but OEM is IMHO bad advice.

Just my opinion.

 

[Fatalv]

So Canon is supposed to program its firmware to work with any brand of battery, however old? How about your battery maker gives you a firmware update for your new body?

And don't forget, aftermarket batteries for the 5DIII were emulating the LP-E6, not the newer, and likely differently programed, LP-E6N.

When did the OP state that Canon should provide a firmware fix?

Also, the batteries likely aren't "programmed" different. The changes to the E6N were to adhere to new Japanese regulations. The only major difference between LP-E6 and LP-E6N is that the E6 cannot be charged in an E6N adapter and has slightly higher mAh. The E6Ns work in plenty of old EOS bodies that never needed firmware updates to work.

 

[YuengLinger]

So Canon is supposed to program its firmware to work with any brand of battery, however old? How about your battery maker gives you a firmware update for your new body?

And don't forget, aftermarket batteries for the 5DIII were emulating the LP-E6, not the newer, and likely differently programed, LP-E6N.

When did the OP state that Canon should provide a firmware fix?

Also, the batteries like aren't "programmed" different. The changes to the E6N were to adhere to new Japanese regulations. The only major difference between LP-E6 and LP-E6N is that the E6 cannot be charged in an E6N adapter and has slightly higher mAh. The E6Ns work in plenty of old EOS bodies that never needed firmware updates to work.

So you have certain knowledge that there is no difference in the firmware? Funny, my cameras report whether they are using the E6 or the E6N. So, is that the only difference in firmware programming?

Apparently there is a MINOR difference in the way the 5DIV works with the aftermarket battery--that's what the OP is complaining about. Why blame Canon? I'm saying it is more reasonable for the aftermarket battery maker to update firmware so that the product works with newer bodies.

The OP is scolding Canon for not making her life easy with reverse-engineered battery knockoffs. But look at it from Canon's point of view. A cheap, botched knockoff blows up a circuit board during a camera body's warranty period. Do you think the average customer is going to admit to Canon that a phony battery was used in a $3000 USD camera when demanding warranty service? So Canon simply takes no steps to bend over backwards to ensure any garage-based pirate can easily sell fakes.

Yes, apparently "reputable" aftermarket companies get caught up in this, but how can Canon otherwise reduce the number of harmful batteries used? If a company or some guy in his garage is making batteries without a licensing agreement, why should Canon be on the hook when things go wrong?

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

The OP is scolding Canon for not making her life easy with reverse-engineered battery knockoffs.

I am?

All in all I am very pleased with the batteries and relieved that the camera ultimately seems to work fine.

The battery safety concerns are legitimate. But you know, you're going to die someday. Maybe it will be of a heart attack, maybe it will be in a Li-ion battery fire, who knows? I don't get too worked up about the little things.

 

[Fatalv]

So Canon is supposed to program its firmware to work with any brand of battery, however old? How about your battery maker gives you a firmware update for your new body?

And don't forget, aftermarket batteries for the 5DIII were emulating the LP-E6, not the newer, and likely differently programed, LP-E6N.

When did the OP state that Canon should provide a firmware fix?

Also, the batteries like aren't "programmed" different. The changes to the E6N were to adhere to new Japanese regulations. The only major difference between LP-E6 and LP-E6N is that the E6 cannot be charged in an E6N adapter and has slightly higher mAh. The E6Ns work in plenty of old EOS bodies that never needed firmware updates to work.

So you have certain knowledge that there is no difference in the firmware? Funny, my cameras report whether they are using the E6 or the E6N. So, is that the only difference in firmware programming?

Apparently there is a MINOR difference in the way the 5DIV works with the aftermarket battery--that's what the OP is complaining about. Why blame Canon? I'm saying it is more reasonable for the aftermarket battery maker to update firmware so that the product works with newer bodies.

The OP is scolding Canon for not making her life easy with reverse-engineered battery knockoffs. But look at it from Canon's point of view. A cheap, botched knockoff blows up a circuit board during a camera body's warranty period. Do you think the average customer is going to admit to Canon that a phony battery was used in a $3000 USD camera when demanding warranty service? So Canon simply takes no steps to bend over backwards to ensure any garage-based pirate can easily sell fakes.

Yes, apparently "reputable" aftermarket companies get caught up in this, but how can Canon otherwise reduce the number of harmful batteries used? If a company or some guy in his garage is making batteries without a licensing agreement, why should Canon be on the hook when things go wrong?

Again, where did the OP scold Canon? He stated an anomaly with using 3rd party batteries. It was meant to be informative.

The knowledge I have on the batteries is what I remember when they were first released and there were comparisons about what changed. There's some info over at northern lights as well http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/replacement-canon-camera-battery-guide/.

If the batteries were drastically different they wouldn't work in older bodies without a firmware update. Sure, the newer ones likely have a different product code inside the camera reads to determine what it is. Probably not unlike a serial number in a lens attached... The may be other minor mods to the chip but for all intense purposes they aren't that different.

I'm just amazed at how fast the pitchforks come out over an informative post. No one is bashing Canon or asking Canon to make any third party product work flawlessly.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'm just amazed at how fast the pitchforks come out over an informative post. No one is bashing Canon or asking Canon to make any third party product work flawlessly.

The Title tells the story, it does not mention third party batteries and leads one to the conclusion that the camera is the issue. If it had said "Third Barty batteries do not report remaining life to 5D MK IV Correctly", then it might be more to the point.

 

[pwp]

After enjoying amazingly good battery life from my gripped 5DIII (genuine LP-E6n's) I was kind of gobsmacked how fast the 5DIV is getting through it's batteries, (genuine LP-E6n's) worse than twice as fast as the 5DIII. This is with GPS and WiFi off. I wasn't expecting quite as good life as the 5DIII as there is a bit more going on, not least the touch screen but now I won't leave the studio without a pair of extra genuine LP-E6n's. I never did this with the 5DIII.

WiFi and GPS switched on, plus solid use of Live-View just punishes the LP-E6n's.

OP, have you thought to look at the Battery Info page of your camera menu. It's on page four of the Tools section. It lists charge levels for one or two LP-E6n's depending whether the camera is gripped, shutter count for the current charge plus Recharge Performance which is an indicator of battery health. Have a look.

On the genuine LP-E6n vs clone batteries argument, I've found through sometimes bitter experience that genuines, though far more expensive are the better buy in the long run, especially when your business credibility is on the line. Same with genuine grips, Speedlights (vs Yongnuo etc). The only genuine item I never even unwrap is the neck strap. Everyone has a preference with straps, I'm wedded to Peak Design.

-pw

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

After enjoying amazingly good battery life from my gripped 5DIII (genuine LP-E6n's) I was kind of gobsmacked how fast the 5DIV is getting through it's batteries, (genuine LP-E6n's) worse than twice as fast as the 5DIII. This is with GPS and WiFi off. I wasn't expecting quite as good life as the 5DIII as there is a bit more going on, not least the touch screen but now I won't leave the studio without a pair of extra genuine LP-E6n's. I never did this with the 5DIII.

WiFi and GPS switched on, plus solid use of Live-View just punishes the LP-E6n's.

OP, have you thought to look at the Battery Info page of your camera menu. It's on page four of the Tools section. It lists charge levels for one or two LP-E6n's depending whether the camera is gripped, shutter count for the current charge plus Recharge Performance which is an indicator of battery health. Have a look.

On the genuine LP-E6n vs clone batteries argument, I've found through sometimes bitter experience that genuines, though far more expensive are the better buy in the long run, especially when your business credibility is on the line. Same with genuine grips, Speedlights (vs Yongnuo etc). The only genuine item I never even unwrap is the neck strap. Everyone has a preference with straps, I'm wedded to Peak Design.

-pw

I still have two LP-E6 Canon batteries that I bought 5 years ago one came with my camera. They still can take over 1000 shots with 1/3 charge left in my 5D MK III. The spare cost me $50, so $10 a year so far, and there is plenty of life left. I fail to see how much I could save with a third party battery, but it cost more. I did buy a few when I first started, they failed in 3 months to a year while the OEM's lasted 7 years. After that, I just bought OEM.

However, I bought my wife two Wasabi batteries for her Nikon 9700 because I planned for her to take it horseback riding on the sand dunes and ocean beach, and expected it to bite the dust (well sand). They also came with a charger (Nikon needs USB). The batteries are still going strong, the camera never died like I expected, and she loves it. So my only Wasabi battery experience is positive, I think they are 2-1/2 years old now.

I've seen several people remark about lower battery life with the 1D MK IV. That's a concern, because I like to use live view for relatively long periods, and when I do, I do not get much battery life on a charge, less than a hour, more than 30 minutes is about all I can estimate. I have never liked grips, so its just one battery at a time for me.

 

[Mikehit]

I am not an expert in battery design or electronics but the OPs description is pretty much in line with what I have understood about batteries for a long time - that the occasional complete discharge enhances general efficiency. Modern Li-on batteries are said to not have the 'charge memory' that plagued earlier batteries but I have seen comments that this is true up to a point. I recently read one article that said efficiency is enhanced by recharging at 20% capacity and charging up to 80% capacity. Seems odd to me and I have never given it ago...
I have a quite expensive battery charger and it has a 'conditioning' function that runs down the battery and recharges it a couple of times for this reason.

The fact that the camera meter, with the same batteries, now seems more reliable after the batteries were completely discharged suggests that there is not a problem a such but an interplay between the battery and the camera meter that has now seemingly been resolved.

I thought the OP was quite an interesting and detailed description.

 

[Fatalv]

OP, for what it's worth I've used the STK batteries as well in both a 7D and 5DMK3. Both functioned totally normal until I updated the 7D firmware. After the firmware update the 7D battery level just blinks and I am warned about an incompatible battery upon power on.

Regardless, the batteries still work perfectly fine and I've continued to use them (4+ years?) as cheap backups to the OEMs I have. I find them especially useful for cold nights of astro work where I plow through batteries and it's handy/necessary to have a large stack ready and I'd rather not subject my OEMs to the harsh temps.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

OP, have you thought to look at the Battery Info page of your camera menu. It's on page four of the Tools section. It lists charge levels for one or two LP-E6n's depending whether the camera is gripped, shutter count for the current charge plus Recharge Performance which is an indicator of battery health. Have a look.

Yes, that's where I got all the info that I put in the original post.

The Title tells the story, it does not mention third party batteries and leads one to the conclusion that the camera is the issue. If it had said "Third Barty batteries do not report remaining life to 5D MK IV Correctly", then it might be more to the point.

The title lengths on this forum are extremely limited. I struggled just to get as much information in the title as I did. There was not even close to enough room to specify this was about third party batteries. That's why I put it in the post.

The fact that the camera meter, with the same batteries, now seems more reliable after the batteries were completely discharged suggests that there is not a problem a such but an interplay between the battery and the camera meter that has now seemingly been resolved.

I thought the OP was quite an interesting and detailed description.

Thank you. But to reiterate, I said I'm hoping that the meter is more accurate now that I've actually run a battery down, I didn't say it is. But honestly, for me, I don't care so much now that I personally know not to be alarmed or trust it when and if the meter drops steeply at first. Even after doing this, the camera proved it could go 700+ shots on one battery. So, I'm not going to get too worked up over it if the meter does seem to drop quickly in the future.