5D3 Auto ISO

[unfocused]

I was just kidding! I use auto ISO with EC.

Ok, thanks for clarifying ... believe it or not, there are really people around who try to tell you semi-auto (be it av,tv or auto iso) is just for people who are not able to shoot in full m, for any possible situation that is

There's plenty of them on here. Every time the topic comes up of exposure compensation for Auto ISO in manual there's usually at least one person who screams about it not really being full manual. I've never heard anyone complain about it in real life, but on the internet what shooting mode you use and the purity in which you do it is of the utmost importance.

I've been criticized many times for using Tv, Av, auto ISO, and worse yet, for even having a camera that can fire 12 fps because "I need to learn more skill and learn to time the shot."

I agree, there must be some reward or stipulation out there about full M mode. Like, if I get the shot and the other guy next to me just missed it slightly, they'll use his shot because he shot in full M mode and I didn't.

Funny thing is, most of these purists act like "manual" takes some special skill. In my youth, manual meant eyeballing the scene and guessing at the exposure without a light meter. In those days, if you used the camera's light meter the "manual" snobs sneered at you.

Personally, I'm not embarrassed to switch the camera to "P" mode when I put the camera in the bag. That way I know that if I see something, the first shot I grab will at least capture something usable. I figure there's a reason it's called "Professional" mode. And really, after a little experience shooting, any of the modes will get you to the same place in the end, so what difference does it make?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Oh wow, so ML already unlocked it? Here I was thinking I might have to finally dig into the code myself. Man, they are fast. Sweet. OK, I guess it's not a practical issue anymore.

The "ML Auto ISO" function is present in the stable v2.3 Magic Lantern, for newer cameras that aren't covered by the stable release there's (only) a wip module that isn't in the nightlies yet. I know because I wrote it but I haven't found the time to polish it enough to push it to the main branch.

The ML core devs aren't very interested in it because they don't shoot action and don't need use auto iso but shoot mostly ettr in M mode w/o auto iso (so they also don't need ec in m which the module also provides)

Ah, that explains why I didn't see it yet. Anyway, chop chop ;D get that wip module into the nightlies before I'm forced to waste my own time coding (and why do that when you could waste your own time for me ).

Oh nice, so you also put in EC in AutoISO M. Great work!

It really is beyond absurd, Canon marketing, to cripple such silly little things. Not one other competitor, who also play their own games, has seen fit to play marketing games with something so trivial as this. At least they firmware is hackable though.

 

[Frodo]

I know this thread is about the 5D3, but on the 5D2, auto-ISO is useless. On Av mode, which I use most, the shutter speed is 1/focal length. I have steady hands but this often does not produce critically sharp images. And on manual, Auto-ISO sets at 400.
Well, the Canon marketing gurus know their stuff - this is one of the reasons I'm considering upgrading.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.

I'll bookmark this post and quote it if the occasion arises :-> ... imho crippling the max. min shutter speed in Av is just a too good and cheap way for Canon to upsell people, they won't let it be until forced at gunpoint. The ridiculous value of 1/250s (for action shots!) down to 1" (who needs that?) shows that Canon doesn't care about what non-1d people think here. My guess for the 7d: 1/500s

Yeah I love how they limited the allowed shutter speeds to the exact range where the feature would be basically useless. Once you are down to getting away with 1/250th or slower you are more often in scenarios where you'd have enough time to adjust everything else yourself as needed, so it's more of just a little convience thing at that point, but of course where it is more than just about a little convenience then they lock it out! They simply can not be THAT dumb, so it has to be calculated pathetic little BS games from the marketing department.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.

I'll bookmark this post and quote it if the occasion arises :-> ... imho crippling the max. min shutter speed in Av is just a too good and cheap way for Canon to upsell people, they won't let it be until forced at gunpoint. The ridiculous value of 1/250s (for action shots!) down to 1" (who needs that?) shows that Canon doesn't care about what non-1d people think here. My guess for the 7d: 1/500s

I could certainly be wrong…and you're more than welcome to throw it in my face if I am!

I really just think it's a use case Canon didn't foresee, and decided to add post hoc because of customer feedback. Conventional wisdom is that you use Tv mode for action shooting; 'sports mode' (the runner on the mode dial of so-equipped cameras) is based on Tv mode. Since the setting under discussion applies only to Av mode, it's quite logical Canon did not envision its use for shooting action.

Oh come on, if they didn't forsee that then their entire staff needs to be fired since none of them have the remotest clue about photography! and it's not like people haven't been complaining about it in the forums for years! I and many others have personally sent them detailed requests about AutoISO and how it needs to work years ago already. All they do is slowly dribble out one tiny aspect more with each model as a supposed upsell feature. Pathetic.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.

I'll bookmark this post and quote it if the occasion arises :-> ... imho crippling the max. min shutter speed in Av is just a too good and cheap way for Canon to upsell people, they won't let it be until forced at gunpoint. The ridiculous value of 1/250s (for action shots!) down to 1" (who needs that?) shows that Canon doesn't care about what non-1d people think here. My guess for the 7d: 1/500s

I could certainly be wrong…and you're more than welcome to throw it in my face if I am!

I really just think it's a use case Canon didn't foresee, and decided to add post hoc because of customer feedback. Conventional wisdom is that you use Tv mode for action shooting; 'sports mode' (the runner on the mode dial of so-equipped cameras) is based on Tv mode. Since the setting under discussion applies only to Av mode, it's quite logical Canon did not envision its use for shooting action.

Also conventional wisdom is not to go to Tv mode for sports. Most serious sports shooters use either Av or M.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I was just kidding! I use auto ISO with EC.

Ok, thanks for clarifying ... believe it or not, there are really people around who try to tell you semi-auto (be it av,tv or auto iso) is just for people who are not able to shoot in full m, for any possible situation that is

There's plenty of them on here. Every time the topic comes up of exposure compensation for Auto ISO in manual there's usually at least one person who screams about it not really being full manual. I've never heard anyone complain about it in real life, but on the internet what shooting mode you use and the purity in which you do it is of the utmost importance.

hah very true, I see that just about every single time, where half the posts end up with on or two people ranting about how it's not really M mode anymore and how of course they shouldnt allow AutoISO under M and how it's confusing and how it needs to be illegal unless they add a new letter to the dial, etc. and how it's a dumb mode that makes no sense anyway, etc. etc. etc.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Personally, I'm not embarrassed to switch the camera to "P" mode when I put the camera in the bag. That way I know that if I see something, the first shot I grab will at least capture something usable. I figure there's a reason it's called "Professional" mode. And really, after a little experience shooting, any of the modes will get you to the same place in the end, so what difference does it make?

Good point. I mean how many times does some shot just come out of nowhere and you grab the camera and there is zero time to adjust even the slightest thing, not even spin the knob, and unless it was stored on P, you may well mess the shot up beyond rescue. I have to remember to store it in P more.

 

[mackguyver]

They simply can not be THAT dumb, so it has to be calculated pathetic little BS games from the marketing department.

I think they were THAT dumb, because this 1/250s limit was also present in the 1D X before the firmware update. What were the marketing people expecting people to upgrade to from the 1D X???

My guess is that they thought it would make sense to match the x-sync speed because auto ISO in Av mode would come in so handy for studio work, right?

Or maybe they made their firmware programmer mad and he did this before quitting?

Or perhaps they did this accidentally not expecting their pros to threaten defecting to Nikon, like they did over the lack of f/8 AF intentionally so they could trumpet it as an improvement in the firmware update?

 

[KeithBreazeal]

I just set the 5D III to Auto and get great photos all the time.
You ever wonder why there is a full AUTO MODE?
OK, just kidding. I started in shooting in 1960, manual mode exposures come naturally to me.
For those just getting started in photography, a DSLR can be quite a challenge once they venture past the AUTO settings. I think most people in this situation start getting frustrated when extreme exposure conditions produce less than expected results. That's when they seek our help and understanding. I can't count the number of times somebody has walked up to me and asked me for help on settings. I review their photos and go from there. That's how I started out with my first DSLR(40D) at an airshow. Three fellow photographers took their time and "showed me the ropes". After deleting thousands of photos, you kind of get a clue on what works and what doesn't. Once you get all that figured out and feel good about capturing under most any condition, along comes a new mode. Auto ISO can save you bacon when shooting under varying conditions. A good example is at sporting events when the subject is moving through alternating sunny and shady zones.

 

[bdunbar79]

Honestly, I expect Canon will add the expanded to the 5DIII in a future firmware update, and newer bodies (7DII) will have it at launch. As a reminder, the 'normal' min shutter in Av setting (capped at 1/250 s) was added to the 7D with the v2 firmware, but was on some newer bodies before the 7D got it.

I'll bookmark this post and quote it if the occasion arises :-> ... imho crippling the max. min shutter speed in Av is just a too good and cheap way for Canon to upsell people, they won't let it be until forced at gunpoint. The ridiculous value of 1/250s (for action shots!) down to 1" (who needs that?) shows that Canon doesn't care about what non-1d people think here. My guess for the 7d: 1/500s

I could certainly be wrong…and you're more than welcome to throw it in my face if I am!

I really just think it's a use case Canon didn't foresee, and decided to add post hoc because of customer feedback. Conventional wisdom is that you use Tv mode for action shooting; 'sports mode' (the runner on the mode dial of so-equipped cameras) is based on Tv mode. Since the setting under discussion applies only to Av mode, it's quite logical Canon did not envision its use for shooting action.

Also conventional wisdom is not to go to Tv mode for sports. Most serious sports shooters use either Av or M.

That's actually not quite correct. Most of the sports shooters I shoot with use Tv or M. If you don't have a 1D-series body, you cannot control how slow the shutter goes and nobody shoots below 1/500s, unless you're doing a panning shot. If you cannot set a minimum shutter speed to 1/500s, then why would you use Av mode? Even before the 1Dx firmware was out, I was shooting Tv mode with a min aperture.

Granted, and to your point indirectly, most serious SPORTS shooters DO have a 1D-series body

 

[Skirball]

Oh come on, if they didn't forsee that then their entire staff needs to be fired since none of them have the remotest clue about photography!

The whole staff probably shoots in Av and thinks they're as good as people who shoot manual.

 

[Marsu42]

Ah, that explains why I didn't see it yet. Anyway, chop chop ;D get that wip module into the nightlies before I'm forced to waste my own time coding (and why do that when you could waste your own time for me ). Oh nice, so you also put in EC in AutoISO M. Great work!

Thanks, it's always a pleasure coding for free for people owning camera bodies I cannot afford

I agree, there must be some reward or stipulation out there about full M mode. Like, if I get the shot and the other guy next to me just missed it slightly, they'll use his shot because he shot in full M mode and I didn't.

Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it: You're also getting consistent shots so it's far easier to select and bulk-postprocess them... and for a real pro time is money. With semi-automatic I'm burning a lot of time simply normalizing the shots since for good results I have to do final adjustments on each shot individually.

The other advantage of "dumb" full M is that you're not relying on the camera's metering, just like m flash vs. ettl - in some tricky situations (reflectons, specular highlights) the camera can be wrong so it's good to know how to fall back to a safe setting.

 

[bdunbar79]

Ah, that explains why I didn't see it yet. Anyway, chop chop ;D get that wip module into the nightlies before I'm forced to waste my own time coding (and why do that when you could waste your own time for me ). Oh nice, so you also put in EC in AutoISO M. Great work!

Thanks, it's always a pleasure coding for free for people owning camera bodies I cannot afford

I agree, there must be some reward or stipulation out there about full M mode. Like, if I get the shot and the other guy next to me just missed it slightly, they'll use his shot because he shot in full M mode and I didn't.

Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it: You're also getting consistent shots so it's far easier to select and bulk-postprocess them... and for a real pro time is money. With semi-automatic I'm burning a lot of time simply normalizing the shots since for good results I have to do final adjustments on each shot individually.

The other advantage of "dumb" full M is that you're not relying on the camera's metering, just like m flash vs. ettl - in some tricky situations (reflectons, specular highlights) the camera can be wrong so it's good to know how to fall back to a safe setting.

Even lighting is something I'm not usually given in the indoor facilities I find myself in doing photography. I usually use CWA or spot-metering so the exposures are actually pretty consistent since my photography has to be player-centric. Outdoors though, I usually just take a few meter readings around the field and then set everything manually which isn't a big deal. Where the 1Dx really came in to be very helpful was indoor sports. I'd much rather choose my DOF and shutter speed and then let the camera choose the ISO because I really don't care what it is, as long as it doesn't go above 6400. And, if you WANT that specific shutter speed and aperture, what choice do you really have? You have no choice on ISO anyways. You'd be setting it at 6400 manually anyways, or you can just let the camera choose 5000 or 6400.

I guess if that doesn't make me a real "pro" then oh well. I don't care either way I never was in to titles.

 

[mackguyver]

Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it:

Marsu, the funny thing is that I usually use M when the light is most inconsistent. The semi-auto modes are only so smart and when shooting concerts, indoor sports, or wildlife in deep shade/bright sunshine, M mode is the only way I can get consistent results

 

[dgatwood]

Well, there is indeed a "pro" upside to full M shooting if consistent light allows it:

Marsu, the funny thing is that I usually use M when the light is most inconsistent. The semi-auto modes are only so smart and when shooting concerts, indoor sports, or wildlife in deep shade/bright sunshine, M mode is the only way I can get consistent results

Well, there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is uneven, and then there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is quickly changing. Manual modes do better than auto modes when coping with the first, but usually not as well with the second.

 

[Marsu42]

Well, there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is uneven, and then there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is quickly changing. Manual modes do better than auto modes when coping with the first, but usually not as well with the second.

Thanks, that exactly it. I'd like to add that "auto" is different on different camera bodies, for example "evaluative" metering (that takes the active af point into account) behaves much more consistent on my old 60d but much more dodgy my new 6d in "uneven" lighting. I expect cameras with better rgb metering like the 1dx are even better when it comes to even out uneven lighting.

 

[bdunbar79]

Well, there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is uneven, and then there's lighting that's inconsistent because it is quickly changing. Manual modes do better than auto modes when coping with the first, but usually not as well with the second.

Thanks, that exactly it. I'd like to add that "auto" is different on different camera bodies, for example "evaluative" metering (that takes the active af point into account) behaves much more consistent on my old 60d but much more dodgy my new 6d in "uneven" lighting. I expect cameras with better rgb metering like the 1dx are even better when it comes to even out uneven lighting.

Exactly. The 1Dx's metering is so dang accurate and consistent, auto ISO is no problem at all and that's why I love it with EC. You get to control aperture and shutter speed and let ISO do whatever and it's going to be very accurate. I typically use center-weighted average for player-centric shots.

Sorry, we went from the 5D3 auto ISO all the way to a full-blown 1Dx discussion.

 

[Marsu42]

Sorry, we went from the 5D3 auto ISO all the way to a full-blown 1Dx discussion.

Interesting to know in any case, unfortunately the metering cannot be fixed by Magic Lantern as they don't have access to the non-lv af or metering information (yet).

It was a bit disappointing to see this regression on my 6d, but then again I was expecting worse performance looking at the af specs anyway. I guess the old 9-pt metering/af system is very mature on my good ol' 60d while there hasn't been too much testing with the 6d 11pt metering/af.

Let's hope that Canon will integrate real rgb metering in all upcoming systems, after all Nikon shows how it can be done and still selling their most expensive model. Probably already with the 7d2?