5ds/r not for me after reading this.

[Marsu42]

You can still be a handheld shooter, just realize that 1/FL won't cut it. That also means setting a minimum shutter speed or shooting in TV or M mode, unless Canon changes their firmware logic which still uses 1/FL (1/1.6xFL on crop).

my personal believes as a wildlife shooter is to use as fast a shutter speed as I can. it always meant more keepers !!

Perhaps the person who made up the 1/f rule was not thinking about wildlife photography, which hardly existed in those days.

I find that 1/fl is fine for uwa lenses, but even for 20mp too slow for tele shots when something moves (obviously, IS doesn't matter in these cases). As an updated "rule", I'd suggest 1/(fl * 1.5) for 100-200mm, and at least 1/(fl * 2) for longer lenses as a starting point.

It's simply a matter of statistics, if you really want a shot to have no motion blur on the first attempt, select fast shutter speed, or if it's a sitting duck select slow shutter (but lower iso = better iq) and select the best frame from a burst.

For a 50mp sensor, well, you have do select even faster shutter speeds but I imagine this should be still be just fine handheld for wide angle or good light. As the 5ds is essentially an upscaled crop sensor, of course at iso 1600+ you have to expect some drawbacks in iq.

 

[RobertG.]

It's an interesting article and I wonder how it came onto the Canon website. It sounds a bit too critical / honest. Only the warning of increased noise and ineffective mRAW and crop modes were missing. There are so many points mentioned against getting a 5DS or 5DS R, maybe in favor of a new 5D IV with a smaller mega pixel count.
I will wait for the rumored update of the Sony A7R with "just" 36MP, which comes without a mirror.... one part less causing vibrations and decrease of sharpness, if I follow the simple logic of the Canon article.

 

[Loswr]

I will wait for the rumored update of the Sony A7R with "just" 36MP, which comes without a mirror.... one part less causing vibrations and decrease of sharpness

Indeed, because the current a7R without a mirror is so free from vibration problems. :

 

[tron]

I will wait for the rumored update of the Sony A7R with "just" 36MP, which comes without a mirror.... one part less causing vibrations and decrease of sharpness

Indeed, because the current a7R without a mirror is so free from vibration problems. :

Indeed shutter vibration problems compensate for the lack of mirror vibration problems ;D

 

[sdsr]

I will wait for the rumored update of the Sony A7R with "just" 36MP, which comes without a mirror.... one part less causing vibrations and decrease of sharpness

Indeed, because the current a7R without a mirror is so free from vibration problems. :

It will be interesting to see if the IBIS that's supposed to be in the a7rII makes a difference here, or if they find some other solution (there are those who claim not to have ever seen vibration affect photos taken with their a7r, which I guess could be true - no for me, though, unfortunately). It's been a problem with Olympus OM-D (and perhaps other) cameras too, despite their excellent IBIS, and others presumably (I'm not entirely convinced it doesn't affect my a7s, even in silent shutter mode, for that matter). That said, once you know the problem range, it's easy enough to take pin-sharp photos with an a7r without a tripod (I never use one).

 

[Hjalmarg1]

Ah, nice. I didn't know the 5ds could do that.
Now what are the chances that we could see this in older cameras with a firmware update?

Ahhh, YES! My desire too (5D3 user)

You can do that with your 5D3 as well. It works well in Av mode.

 

[Zeidora]

I learned the old 1/F was good for WA to maybe 100-135 mm, and slowest meant hand held under ideal conditions: rock steady ground, relaxed, using arms against chest to minimize motion, carefully press on shutter release. For any deviation, you have to go shorter, be it on moving object, being physically not completely composed, in clumsy position, or in a hurry, using longer lens.

There is nothing new about small pixel cameras requiring perfect technique, preferentially tripod AND mirror lock-up AND cable release. And yes, this body is not for everybody. I would never consider a 1D-series body, as I don't do any action shots, so >1 fps is useless to me. If you don't like using a tripod, forget about small pixel bodies. Looking forward to picking up my pre-ordered 5dsr at end of June. I'm still surprised that RRS does not have a L-bracket for 5ds with battery grip listed.

 

[AlanF]

If you don't like using a tripod, forget about small pixel bodies.

I really don't understand this fuss about the smaller pixels of the 5DS. The 5DS has very similar sized pixels to modern APS-C sensor cameras, and bird photographers routinely use 400 or 560mm lenses hand held on 7DII, 7D etc.

 

[krisbell]

You guys have got me thinking now as the consensus here seems so different from my own experience. I am almost constantly under the 1/FL rule while handholding at 600mm. My walk around setting is generally Tv at 1/500 and I havent noticed significant blur even when pixel peeping. Sure the odd shot shows some blur but the vast majority are fine. If I drop it much below this then it does become a problem. This is not intended as a brag post as I am a slightly built guy and I dont think I have superb technique so not sure why everyone else's experience seems to be the opposite to mine?

Both recent shots at 1/500, 600mm, handheld:

Arabian Oryx (Oryx leucoryx) by Kris Bell, on Flickr

Arabian Red Fox (Vulpes vulpes arabica) by Kris Bell, on Flickr

 

[dak723]

That isn't too bad. I mean most of the time, as a portrait photographer, I will be using the 85 1.2 and the 200 f/2. I usually shoot the 200 at 1/400 anyway and that is a stop above focal length. I think it will be absolutely fine in 95% of situations.

Is the 56Dsr really the camera you would be looking at if you do portraits? I would not think any resolution advantage would outweigh the resolution disadvantages.

Sure I can't wait to use it for portraits. I have a 1DX for everything else. The 5DS and the 5DSr are studio and landscape cameras. Just because my portraits don't take place in a studio, the subjects will still be the same. Peter Hurly, a famous head shot photographer loves the new 5DS and plans to switch from his medium format cameras to Canon now. Why would resolution be a disadvantage for portraits?

Because seeing every pore and every tiny facial hair may not be a good idea or flattering to your clients.

 

[Loswr]

Ah, nice. I didn't know the 5ds could do that.
Now what are the chances that we could see this in older cameras with a firmware update?

Ahhh, YES! My desire too (5D3 user)

You can do that with your 5D3 as well. It works well in Av mode.

Sorry, but I don't think that's true. The point wasn't about the min shutter in AV (which the 5DIII does have). On the 5Ds that functionality is now the 'manually set' option for the feature, what's new is the 'automatically set' option, where the camera still picks a FL-based minimum but you can alter it by up to 3 stops.

 

[Ozarker]

That isn't too bad. I mean most of the time, as a portrait photographer, I will be using the 85 1.2 and the 200 f/2. I usually shoot the 200 at 1/400 anyway and that is a stop above focal length. I think it will be absolutely fine in 95% of situations.

Is the 56Dsr really the camera you would be looking at if you do portraits? I would not think any resolution advantage would outweigh the resolution disadvantages.

Sure I can't wait to use it for portraits. I have a 1DX for everything else. The 5DS and the 5DSr are studio and landscape cameras. Just because my portraits don't take place in a studio, the subjects will still be the same. Peter Hurly, a famous head shot photographer loves the new 5DS and plans to switch from his medium format cameras to Canon now. Why would resolution be a disadvantage for portraits?

Because seeing every pore and every tiny facial hair may not be a good idea or flattering to your clients.

I've heard that B+W is designing a new "Reality" filter for the high MP cameras. The UGLO Filter, or something like that.

 

[tron]

Ah, nice. I didn't know the 5ds could do that.
Now what are the chances that we could see this in older cameras with a firmware update?

Ahhh, YES! My desire too (5D3 user)

You can do that with your 5D3 as well. It works well in Av mode.

Sorry, but I don't think that's true. The point wasn't about the min shutter in AV (which the 5DIII does have). On the 5Ds that functionality is now the 'manually set' option for the feature, what's new is the 'automatically set' option, where the camera still picks a FL-based minimum but you can alter it by up to 3 stops.

Exactly, 5D3 does not have EC capability or higher than 1/250 min shutter speed in AUTO ISO MANUAL mode. 1Dx (and now it seems 5Ds) has.

 

[Loswr]

Ah, nice. I didn't know the 5ds could do that.
Now what are the chances that we could see this in older cameras with a firmware update?

Ahhh, YES! My desire too (5D3 user)

You can do that with your 5D3 as well. It works well in Av mode.

Sorry, but I don't think that's true. The point wasn't about the min shutter in AV (which the 5DIII does have). On the 5Ds that functionality is now the 'manually set' option for the feature, what's new is the 'automatically set' option, where the camera still picks a FL-based minimum but you can alter it by up to 3 stops.

Exactly, 5D3 does not have EC capability or higher than 1/250 min shutter speed in AUTO ISO MANUAL mode. 1Dx (and now it seems 5Ds) has.

The automatically set but adjustable minimum shutter speed is something new to the 5Ds, the 1D X does not have it either.

 

[tron]

Ah, nice. I didn't know the 5ds could do that.
Now what are the chances that we could see this in older cameras with a firmware update?

Ahhh, YES! My desire too (5D3 user)

You can do that with your 5D3 as well. It works well in Av mode.

Sorry, but I don't think that's true. The point wasn't about the min shutter in AV (which the 5DIII does have). On the 5Ds that functionality is now the 'manually set' option for the feature, what's new is the 'automatically set' option, where the camera still picks a FL-based minimum but you can alter it by up to 3 stops.

Exactly, 5D3 does not have EC capability or higher than 1/250 min shutter speed in AUTO ISO MANUAL mode. 1Dx (and now it seems 5Ds) has.

The automatically set but adjustable minimum shutter speed is something new to the 5Ds, the 1D X does not have it either.

I guess you are talking about the +-3 stop capability but at least 1Dx has the other 2 mentioned capabilities in auto iso manual mode (EC and up to 1/8000 min shutter speed).

 

[jaayres20]

That isn't too bad. I mean most of the time, as a portrait photographer, I will be using the 85 1.2 and the 200 f/2. I usually shoot the 200 at 1/400 anyway and that is a stop above focal length. I think it will be absolutely fine in 95% of situations.

Is the 56Dsr really the camera you would be looking at if you do portraits? I would not think any resolution advantage would outweigh the resolution disadvantages.

Sure I can't wait to use it for portraits. I have a 1DX for everything else. The 5DS and the 5DSr are studio and landscape cameras. Just because my portraits don't take place in a studio, the subjects will still be the same. Peter Hurly, a famous head shot photographer loves the new 5DS and plans to switch from his medium format cameras to Canon now. Why would resolution be a disadvantage for portraits?

Because seeing every pore and every tiny facial hair may not be a good idea or flattering to your clients.

They would have to look at the images at 400% to see that kind of detail, which doesn't happen too often. However more resolution allows me more leeway in post processing, editing & cropping. You can always take away sharpness & resolution, but you cannot add it. Also 50mp is fun to have. I make a quite a bit of money doing photography, but I still don't need it to survive. I shoot weddings and portraits to buy gear and have fun, not buy gear to shoot weddings and make a living.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

You guys have got me thinking now as the consensus here seems so different from my own experience. I am almost constantly under the 1/FL rule while handholding at 600mm. My walk around setting is generally Tv at 1/500 and I havent noticed significant blur even when pixel peeping. Sure the odd shot shows some blur but the vast majority are fine. If I drop it much below this then it does become a problem. This is not intended as a brag post as I am a slightly built guy and I dont think I have superb technique so not sure why everyone else's experience seems to be the opposite to mine?

Both recent shots at 1/500, 600mm, handheld:

Was this without IS? IS usually helps by 2-4 stops, so its the same as 1/ 3 FL).

 

[dak723]

That isn't too bad. I mean most of the time, as a portrait photographer, I will be using the 85 1.2 and the 200 f/2. I usually shoot the 200 at 1/400 anyway and that is a stop above focal length. I think it will be absolutely fine in 95% of situations.

Is the 56Dsr really the camera you would be looking at if you do portraits? I would not think any resolution advantage would outweigh the resolution disadvantages.

Sure I can't wait to use it for portraits. I have a 1DX for everything else. The 5DS and the 5DSr are studio and landscape cameras. Just because my portraits don't take place in a studio, the subjects will still be the same. Peter Hurly, a famous head shot photographer loves the new 5DS and plans to switch from his medium format cameras to Canon now. Why would resolution be a disadvantage for portraits?

Because seeing every pore and every tiny facial hair may not be a good idea or flattering to your clients.

They would have to look at the images at 400% to see that kind of detail, which doesn't happen too often.

They are easily visible at 100% on the sample portrait pics I have seen on the internet. Now, even 100% may not be a concern. You are the photographer and it is up to you. Personally, I would try out the camera before deciding. Might work out just fine, but it would be the one thing I would be concerned about.

 

[candc]

You can still be a handheld shooter, just realize that 1/FL won't cut it. That also means setting a minimum shutter speed or shooting in TV or M mode, unless Canon changes their firmware logic which still uses 1/FL (1/1.6xFL on crop).

You can change this by up to +/- 3 stops

This is a new and useful feature. I checked and the 7dii has this.

 

[RobertG.]

I will wait for the rumored update of the Sony A7R with "just" 36MP, which comes without a mirror.... one part less causing vibrations and decrease of sharpness

Indeed

+1

Good to know that you agree. Thanks for quoting just part of my text.