6D Sync speed only 1/180s?
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Leadfingers said:
It's because at faster shutter speeds the shutter doesn't expose the entire sensor at the same time, it's just a slit that's open between the two curtains. The x-sync speed is the faster shutter speed where the whole thing is exposed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal-plane_shutter
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Because not all pros have "made it". I need a 2nd body, I'd like it to be full frame and I can't give up my 7d to make the extra money for the 5dIII. I quite like the idea of the 6D; I also like wireless tethering. I'd rather get a 6d that has limitations I can work around than buy a camera that I then have to drop another £500 on just to get it to tether the way I like.
That £500 is a good amount towards nice glass.
I'd like a 5d III, sure. But for my business now? It'll be the 6D
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Leadfingers said:
What your 'missing' is the way a shutter works. There are two curtains, an exposure is taken with the first curtain opening across the sensor, followed by the second curtain closing across the sensor. But the curtains can only move so fast. The X-sync speed is the fastest shutter speed at which the first curtain completes its traverse before the second curtain has to start. At faster shutter speeds, both curtains are crossing together, and the exposure is a moving 'window' that gets progressively narrower with faster shutter speeds, down to just a thin slit.
So...at fast shutter speeds, you have moving slit of the sensor exposed, and a flash strobe duration of 1/1000 s to 1/35000 s. That means the flash is only active for a fraction of the curtain 'window' traverse, and you have darker/black (depending on ambient light) bars at the top and bottom of the frame.
The 'solution' is high speed sync (HSS), which allows you to go faster than the X-sync speed. The penalty is a big reduction in flash power.
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As others have said above, if you purchase a more expensive flashgun with HSS, the flash sync issue becomes a non-issue on the 6D (as long as your flash is powerful).
Where the 1/180s becomes a more limiting problem, will be for those owners who purchase a cheaper flash that does not support HSS. In those instances, especially shooting outdoors during daytime where the ambient light is strong the photographer may need to use as fast a shutter speed as his equipment will allow, therefore 1/300s or 1/250s may be better than 1/180s depending on how strong the sunlight is.
[Remember your aperture setting controls the amount of reflected light or flash, whereas the shutter speed determines the amount of ambient/everywhere light in the exposure - thus adjusting the ratio of flash to natural is done via playing Aperture vs Shutter]
Notwithstanding all of that, if a prospective 6D owner can afford to pony-up 2 grand+ for a camera body, then they can certainly afford to pay another 500 bucks for a decent flash unit like the 600EX
Also remember what Neuro said about shutter mechanism quality (after all we're talking moving parts in an expensive electronic device here) - the 1DX is rated for about 400,000 shutter cycles, so clearly has the best quality parts and a decent x-sync rate, whereas both the 5D3 and 7D are rated at approximately 150,000 actuations (with the 7D mechanism being a modified version of the 1DIIn & 1DIII) hence the 1/200s and 1/250s x-sync speeds respectively. Ergo, given that the new 6D is ONLY rated for 100,000 shutter cycles - the same as most Rebels, Canon obviously believe that the 6D shutter is a bit more fragile, so do not want to stress it too much as well.
Where the 1/180s becomes a more limiting problem, will be for those owners who purchase a cheaper flash that does not support HSS. In those instances, especially shooting outdoors during daytime where the ambient light is strong the photographer may need to use as fast a shutter speed as his equipment will allow, therefore 1/300s or 1/250s may be better than 1/180s depending on how strong the sunlight is.
[Remember your aperture setting controls the amount of reflected light or flash, whereas the shutter speed determines the amount of ambient/everywhere light in the exposure - thus adjusting the ratio of flash to natural is done via playing Aperture vs Shutter]
Notwithstanding all of that, if a prospective 6D owner can afford to pony-up 2 grand+ for a camera body, then they can certainly afford to pay another 500 bucks for a decent flash unit like the 600EX
Also remember what Neuro said about shutter mechanism quality (after all we're talking moving parts in an expensive electronic device here) - the 1DX is rated for about 400,000 shutter cycles, so clearly has the best quality parts and a decent x-sync rate, whereas both the 5D3 and 7D are rated at approximately 150,000 actuations (with the 7D mechanism being a modified version of the 1DIIn & 1DIII) hence the 1/200s and 1/250s x-sync speeds respectively. Ergo, given that the new 6D is ONLY rated for 100,000 shutter cycles - the same as most Rebels, Canon obviously believe that the 6D shutter is a bit more fragile, so do not want to stress it too much as well.
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Per David Hobby; "The Strobist":
Hobby rejects the Nikon D600 out-of-hand because it has only 1/200 sync speed. Nice to see someone ragging on Nikon for a change, yet bummer that this is actually faster than the 6D if 1/180 is going to be it.
See article: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2012/09/nikon-d600-think-twice-before-you-jump.html
Hobby relies a lot on the high shutter to overpower ambient light. He says he wants 1/250th.
Just saying, there's no need to savage the OP. He is in good company on this point.
Hobby rejects the Nikon D600 out-of-hand because it has only 1/200 sync speed. Nice to see someone ragging on Nikon for a change, yet bummer that this is actually faster than the 6D if 1/180 is going to be it.
See article: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2012/09/nikon-d600-think-twice-before-you-jump.html
Hobby relies a lot on the high shutter to overpower ambient light. He says he wants 1/250th.
Just saying, there's no need to savage the OP. He is in good company on this point.
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ScottyP said:
Oops. I swear I am not bumping my own post, but I failed to notice the little "update" at the bottom that appeared since I first read this. He gives a quick "Sheeesh!" to the new 6D and the 1/180th.
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We have all of these pros on here and NOBODY can figure out how to work around the 1/180s max sync speed?? Sighhhhhhh.
Or, if you're not a pro buying the 6D, then who really cares?
Or, if you're not a pro buying the 6D, then who really cares?
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Open the aperture? Oh my...
Try to bring the background down and freeze small movements requires a higher sync. I use my wireless flash outside all the time and going to 1/500s or higher gets me so little power I can't tell if the flash fired. And I use two 580's at full power. If you want to have power and less dof ND-filters can help.
Let's hope Odin makes an Optimized flash sync like Pw's and better so I don't have to spend hours tuning them in software.
Try to bring the background down and freeze small movements requires a higher sync. I use my wireless flash outside all the time and going to 1/500s or higher gets me so little power I can't tell if the flash fired. And I use two 580's at full power. If you want to have power and less dof ND-filters can help.
Let's hope Odin makes an Optimized flash sync like Pw's and better so I don't have to spend hours tuning them in software.
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For underwater photographers lower X-sync is often a pain, eg for sunball shots where you're lighting a foreground subject too. The aperture is often already fairly high, so going even higher isnt the preferred solution, and high speed sync isnt an option either.
A small segment of photography and one that probably isnt too interested in the 6D anyhow - the cost of going DSLR is enough that stopping there probably isnt worth it if full frame is whats wanted, and theres the 5D anyhow. But if the sensor is a reasonable jump over the 5D II, there will be a few sad faces, self included.
A small segment of photography and one that probably isnt too interested in the 6D anyhow - the cost of going DSLR is enough that stopping there probably isnt worth it if full frame is whats wanted, and theres the 5D anyhow. But if the sensor is a reasonable jump over the 5D II, there will be a few sad faces, self included.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Yes it's been a motivator for the armchair spec readers. But it depends how you work. For plenty of photographers shooting style, any loss of sync speed is noticed and missed, even the drop from 300th to 250th from the 1D4 to the 1DX. In reality the 5D3 sync speed of 200th is barely different from 180th, but the incremental losses require modified technique and reduced flexibility.
Remember how useful the 500th sync on the original 1D was? Brilliant!
-PW
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1/180 sucks and so does 1/200th. 1/250 should be the bare minimum but it really sucks also. I have a good understanding of the importance of all this, but a vague understanding as to why we don't have 1/500th or better synch speeds. Some of the early model DSLR's got there, and some of the Nikon's can do even better(the older ones). i have a leaf shutter 6x9 rangefinder that will go to 1/500th, it's from the 80's and probably mostly designed in the 70's. It doesn't even take batteries. why on earth are we not doing better now? YOu might say, yeah, but your rangefinder only goes as fast as 1/500, synch or not. well, i don't care. I don't want to hear it can't be done, do it. either with mechanics, electronics or both. I say we officially end the MP race and heat up the synch speed race!
BTW- this little rant wasn't brought on with the 6d, it's been building for a few years.
BTW- this little rant wasn't brought on with the 6d, it's been building for a few years.
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Freelancer said:Viggo said:
yeah... well speaking about "experts" :
it looks like 70% don´t even know WHAT the problem is.... but nevertheless they write in this thread.
bdunbar79 said:
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So you can't do it then. Just forget it and never set your shutter above 1/180s if you're using a flash. Good lord. (Rubbing eyes and pulling hair out..........)
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