A Bit More About the New “Big White” Lenses Coming from Canon [CR3]

[YuengLinger]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

 

[Talys]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

But your statement implied that some lenses don't work well specifically with DPAF, or at least that's how I interpreted it (as did jolyonralph).

You're absolutely right; I realized that upon re-reading my original post, hence the clarification. I've not encountered any EF L lens that is amazing with PDAF but terrible with LiveView.

 

[Talys]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

The EF 70-300 IS, for example, is a lens that when used on the EOS M5 with official adaptor is next to useless. It hunts forwards and backwards constantly when trying to focus.

Which 70-300 IS lens? (There are four: Non-L, non-L MkII, L, DO.)

The current, Non-L MkII works great with DPAF on a 80D or 6D2.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

So for you, the 'information' in this thread constitutes convincing evidence of incompatibility between current EF lenses and future mirrorless cameras?

Ah ha!!! Confirmation bias. :

 

[fullstop]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

Not "adapter trouble". Most likely "Lens limitation trouble" with regards to "Live View / mirrorless / DPAF focusing".

Although Jony has not specified yet, I think he is referring to the Non L EF 70-300 IS USM [1st gen]. And likely liveView / mirrorless AF performance is the main reason why the Mk. II of that lens got a Nano-USM AF drive.

 

[jolyonralph]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

Not "adapter trouble". Most likely "Lens limitation trouble" with regards to "Live View / mirrorless / DPAF focusing".

Although Jony has not specified yet, I think he is referring to the Non L EF 70-300 IS USM [1st gen]. And likely liveView / mirrorless AF performance is the main reason why the Mk. II of that lens got a Nano-USM AF drive.

I should have been more specific, sorry. Yes, it's the EF 70-300 IS USM Mark 1.

It would be interesting to see which if any of the current retail lenses have such issues. Maybe the older primes?

 

[takesome1]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Speed.

Then the only lens that needed update - the EF85mm 1.2L II - has kinda of being updated in the form of EF85mm 1.4L IS. All other lenses have satisfactory to superb speed...

How we forget the 180mm L macro.

 

[unfocused]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

So for you, the 'information' in this thread constitutes convincing evidence of incompatibility between current EF lenses and future mirrorless cameras?

Ah ha!!! Confirmation bias. :

Clearly you don't understand. Canon is updating many of its "L" lenses because they are secretly planning to abandon the EF mount. Therefore, we should all stop buying EF lenses today. And now we have clear evidence of problems with adapters because one person reports problems with one very old and never great lens.

 

[ERHP]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

So for you, the 'information' in this thread constitutes convincing evidence of incompatibility between current EF lenses and future mirrorless cameras?

Ah ha!!! Confirmation bias. :

Clearly you don't understand. Canon is updating many of its "L" lenses because they are secretly planning to abandon the EF mount. Therefore, we should all stop buying EF lenses today. And now we have clear evidence of problems with adapters because one person reports problems with one very old and never great lens.

Step 1: Update all "L" EF mount lenses
Step 2: Release camera with new mount that is incompatible w/ EF
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

 

[nchoh]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Most of this thread is FUD, so a little bit more can't hurt.

Why do you think it is fine to sow Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) on this site? Some of us sincerely want a fun place to discuss Canon Rumors.

 

[Kit.]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

I should have been more specific, sorry. Yes, it's the EF 70-300 IS USM Mark 1.

It would be interesting to see which if any of the current retail lenses have such issues. Maybe the older primes?

75-300 and probably (but unlikely) 50/1.4?

That's the only "micro-USM" lenses currently being sold by B&H as new.

 

[fullstop]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

I should have been more specific, sorry. Yes, it's the EF 70-300 IS USM Mark 1.

maybe if you have a chance to try out the EF 70-300 IS Mk. II on your M5 in the same situation as the Mk. I ... to see whether they both show the same AF issues on DPAF/mirrorless? If you do, I'd be interested to hear about findings, thx!

 

[nchoh]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Just to share on this thread...

There are 2 technologies that are recently being discussed and they need to be understood to have an intelligent conversation -
1) DPAF
2) STM motors.

DPAF delivers all the additional benefits of focusing that was being sought. Each pixel pair is able to determine if focus is in front or behind and by how much (see Canon's site). Quad or multi pixel does not give any AF advantage more than what DPAF gives.

STM motors have defined steps, each step is a fixed angle from which the focus distance is known ahead of time. With the information that the DPAF can collect, the DIGIC processor can send information to the lens to smoothly and in a straightforward manner focus the lens. Albeit, a STM is slower than the USM motor. So STM works well with DPAF, or conversely, DPAF's additional information can be precisely used by STM lenses.

USM motors need a more complex algorithm to focus and needs to hunt to focus. This need to hunt (backwards /forwards) movement creates challenges for heavy focus lens groups that have inadequate motors.

 

[fullstop]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

agree with most of your posting.

Except:

Quad or multi pixel does not give any AF advantage more than what DPAF gives.

yes it does. Quad Pixel will allow [virtual] "cross-sensitive AF fields". Dual-pixel - especially when all pixels have the same orientation for the 2 photo diodes [up/down or left/right] as in current Canon implementations - only allows equivalents of "line AF sensors" - and those only in 1 direction ... discussed this aspect a number of times already.

 

[nchoh]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

agree with most of your posting.

Except:

Quad or multi pixel does not give any AF advantage more than what DPAF gives.

yes it does. Quad Pixel will allow [virtual] "cross-sensitive AF fields". Dual-pixel - especially when all pixels have the same orientation for the 2 photo diodes [up/down or left/right] as in current Canon implementations - only allows equivalents of "line AF sensors" - and those only in 1 direction ... discussed this aspect a number of times already.

You are right, I did not think about that.

However... with every dual-pixel giving distance information, the camera has a "3D" map and in most cases would be able to accurately determine the focus distance from adjacent pixels.

By treating every group of distance indeterminate pixels as a surface, the camera can interpolate the distance of each surface from it's edge. It would be, I believe, in practical terms, accurate enough.

 

[Talys]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Ah ha!!! Adapter troubles.

Exactly why I asked about waiting to buy new EF lenses with a new mount expected on the Canon FF mirrorless.

Not "adapter trouble". Most likely "Lens limitation trouble" with regards to "Live View / mirrorless / DPAF focusing".

Although Jony has not specified yet, I think he is referring to the Non L EF 70-300 IS USM [1st gen]. And likely liveView / mirrorless AF performance is the main reason why the Mk. II of that lens got a Nano-USM AF drive.

I should have been more specific, sorry. Yes, it's the EF 70-300 IS USM Mark 1.

It would be interesting to see which if any of the current retail lenses have such issues. Maybe the older primes?

Curious. I have an old 70-300 as well as the current Nano USM version, and both work pretty well in live view on a 6D2. I mean, not like a 100-400LII, but certainly acceptable by my standards. Given sufficient light for f/5.6 (like a sunny day), it doesn't hunt at all.

Perhaps it is just the awesomeness that is the 6D2 8)

 

[ethanz]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Curious. I have an old 70-300 as well as the current Nano USM version, and both work pretty well in live view on a 6D2. I mean, not like a 100-400LII, but certainly acceptable by my standards. Given sufficient light for f/5.6 (like a sunny day), it doesn't hunt at all.

Perhaps it is just the awesomeness that is the 6D2 8)

But, 6d2 crappy camera? ??? : ;D

 

[Quirkz]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

main reason for STM lenses was silent operation for video use. But those linear stepper motors also seem to be able to handle signals from on-sensor PDAF better than (regular) USM lenses

Of course, yes, it’s obvious. The digital signal generated by the algorithms running on camera cpu to analyze the sensor data and control the movement of the lens motors must be very different between the two AF methods, because it’s impossible to make a sequence of 1s and 0s the same.

You do see how silly that sounds, right?

 

[nchoh]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

main reason for STM lenses was silent operation for video use. But those linear stepper motors also seem to be able to handle signals from on-sensor PDAF better than (regular) USM lenses

Of course, yes, it’s obvious. The digital signal generated by the algorithms running on camera cpu to analyze the sensor data and control the movement of the lens motors must be very different between the two AF methods, because it’s impossible to make a sequence of 1s and 0s the same.

You do see how silly that sounds, right?

Actually no.

A stepper motor is controlled very differently than other types of motors. A stepper motor has steps, hence the name. Each step is a fixed angle. For example a stepper motor with 365 steps would move precisely 1 degree for each step called and move forward or backward a precise amount based on the screw. So the difference between a stepper motor performance versus other types of motors is because the stepper motor is able to take different instructions.

 

[Kit.]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

A stepper motor is controlled very differently than other types of motors. A stepper motor has steps, hence the name. Each step is a fixed angle. For example a stepper motor with 365 steps would move precisely 1 degree for each step called and move forward or backward a precise amount based on the screw. So the difference between a stepper motor performance versus other types of motors is because the stepper motor is able to take different instructions.

And how is it different from the AF protocol EOS camera uses with any other EF lens?