A Bit of a Hassle when using a CPL?

ZoeEnPhos

©­­®¹
Hi!
I do not know if anyone here can perfectly master the use of a CPL when it comes to manually focusing even
when using Live-view outdoors daytime?
I tried to for first time use a CPL (high-grade Hoya) filter with my 5DsR w/ TS-E 90mm f/2.8 lens when
wishing to capture a series of photos for a panorama stitched photo (using LR CC) however the Live-view
and the view finder was far too dark to make a proper and exactly MANUAL FOCUS and I just unscrewed the
CPL and then it was no problem with the very darkened viewfinder and hard-to-see-live-view!
The sun was about 90° to left in relation to my camera-tripod-position.
How do you do normally manage with success when you use CPL, for me this was kind of uninspiring
discover and I will not use CPL I think?
Also I have also the Canon TSE24 ver. II and as far as I have read here - you should not use CPL wider than 28mm in order to not getting uneven skies?
[from Schneider-Kreuznach: "The maximum polarization effect is achieved in landscape photography when shooting at an angle of 90° to the sun. For an even effect in the picture, and because of uneven skylight polarization, your focal length should not be less than 28 mm in 35 mm format.]
So for me the high-praise of CPL is kind of out of my skills to use!
I was even considering purchasing the B+W 82mm Kaeseman CPL Nano XS-PRO Digital for the Canon TS-E24 II and I would appreciate to get some information if this combination actually would work because it is 24mm and not 28mm? Maybe on my EOS M3? making the 24mm to be around 38mm of effective angle of view?
Every answer will be gratefully received from you the experienced CPL-landscape-Photographers!
/Charl
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,647
2,167
ZoeEnPhos said:
I tried to for first time use a CPL (high-grade Hoya) filter with my 5DsR w/ TS-E 90mm f/2.8 lens when
wishing to capture a series of photos for a panorama stitched photo (using LR CC) however the Live-view
and the view finder was far too dark to make a proper and exactly MANUAL FOCUS
Have you tried disabling live view exposure simulation? Or with it enabled (which is the default) you can add positive EC to brighten up the image (which it sounds like you might need to do anyway, if you're seeing a dark image with Exp Sim active, since that tries to simulate the final image). As a side note, when looking through the viewfinder using tilt/shift affects the camera's metering, so if you're setting exposure based on the VF metering, it's going to be off unless the lens is in a neutral position when you meter.


ZoeEnPhos said:
Also I have also the Canon TSE24 ver. II and as far as I have read here - you should not use CPL wider than 28mm in order to not getting uneven skies?
[from Schneider-Kreuznach: "The maximum polarization effect is achieved in landscape photography when shooting at an angle of 90° to the sun. For an even effect in the picture, and because of uneven skylight polarization, your focal length should not be less than 28 mm in 35 mm format.]
I was even considering purchasing the B+W 82mm Kaeseman CPL Nano XS-PRO Digital for the Canon TS-E24 II and I would appreciate to get some information if this combination actually would work because it is 24mm and not 28mm?
I have the B+W Käsemann 82mm for my TS-E 24L II and 24-70/2.8L II, it works fine on both lenses and I don't notice significant artifacts (uneven polarization) at 24mm. The shot below of the Chapel Bridge in Lucerne, Switzerland was taken with the TS-E 24 + CPL (with a B+W 10-stop ND behind the CPL...now that makes live view focusing a challenge, but in this case exposure simulation was enough to allow me to focus - it usually works with a 30 s exposure but fails when I need to use bulb for >30 s exposures).

"Kapellbrücke"

EOS 1D X, TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II, 30 s, f/5.6, ISO 100 (10-stop ND + CPL)

The uneven polarization is a progressive effect, not terribly noticeable at 24mm, but it get's worse the wider you go, lower than 20mm it's noticeable and by 16mm it's very evident. However, that doesn't mean you can't use a CPL with an ultrawide lens – you can manage the effect in the skies so it's not displeasing (with composition) or, more commonly, if you're using a CPL to reduce reflections from water/etc., it works well if the water is not spanning the width of the frame.
 

GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2010
1,654
360
49
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
ZoeEnPhos said:
Hi!
I do not know if anyone here can perfectly master the use of a CPL when it comes to manually focusing even
when using Live-view outdoors daytime?
I tried to for first time use a CPL (high-grade Hoya) filter with my 5DsR w/ TS-E 90mm f/2.8 lens when
wishing to capture a series of photos for a panorama stitched photo (using LR CC) however the Live-view
and the view finder was far too dark to make a proper and exactly MANUAL FOCUS and I just unscrewed the
CPL and then it was no problem with the very darkened viewfinder and hard-to-see-live-view!
The sun was about 90° to left in relation to my camera-tripod-position.
How do you do normally manage with success when you use CPL, for me this was kind of uninspiring
discover and I will not use CPL I think?
Also I have also the Canon TSE24 ver. II and as far as I have read here - you should not use CPL wider than 28mm in order to not getting uneven skies?
[from Schneider-Kreuznach: "The maximum polarization effect is achieved in landscape photography when shooting at an angle of 90° to the sun. For an even effect in the picture, and because of uneven skylight polarization, your focal length should not be less than 28 mm in 35 mm format.]
So for me the high-praise of CPL is kind of out of my skills to use!
I was even considering purchasing the B+W 82mm Kaeseman CPL Nano XS-PRO Digital for the Canon TS-E24 II and I would appreciate to get some information if this combination actually would work because it is 24mm and not 28mm? Maybe on my EOS M3? making the 24mm to be around 38mm of effective angle of view?
Every answer will be gratefully received from you the experienced CPL-landscape-Photographers!
/Charl
My suggestion Charl, is to stop investing in top tier gear for the moment. Stop posting on internet forums for the moment and go and invest in some top landscape tutorial workshops. So work out who's professional work you really like in your area and contact that particular photographer and ask them what workshops they offer...then book up on as many as you fancy. it will be costly but the experience will be amazing and invaluable. You will learn more in a day than you ever will on a word based forum. Some things need to learned on the job and once the technical aspect of photography is mastered, one can concentrate on the art and mood. It will cost and maybe as much as a good lens. But the photos and experience you'll be taking will stay with you for a life time which will transcend your kit.
In the UK, I would seriously recommend Guy Edwardes, but he's workshops are very very popular.
 

kaswindell

Trying to be as good as my gear
Apr 13, 2013
153
1
57
Temple, NH
Visit site
GMCPhotographics said:
ZoeEnPhos said:
Hi!
I do not know if anyone here can perfectly master the use of a CPL when it comes to manually focusing even
when using Live-view outdoors daytime?
I tried to for first time use a CPL (high-grade Hoya) filter with my 5DsR w/ TS-E 90mm f/2.8 lens when
wishing to capture a series of photos for a panorama stitched photo (using LR CC) however the Live-view
and the view finder was far too dark to make a proper and exactly MANUAL FOCUS and I just unscrewed the
CPL and then it was no problem with the very darkened viewfinder and hard-to-see-live-view!
The sun was about 90° to left in relation to my camera-tripod-position.
How do you do normally manage with success when you use CPL, for me this was kind of uninspiring
discover and I will not use CPL I think?
Also I have also the Canon TSE24 ver. II and as far as I have read here - you should not use CPL wider than 28mm in order to not getting uneven skies?
[from Schneider-Kreuznach: "The maximum polarization effect is achieved in landscape photography when shooting at an angle of 90° to the sun. For an even effect in the picture, and because of uneven skylight polarization, your focal length should not be less than 28 mm in 35 mm format.]
So for me the high-praise of CPL is kind of out of my skills to use!
I was even considering purchasing the B+W 82mm Kaeseman CPL Nano XS-PRO Digital for the Canon TS-E24 II and I would appreciate to get some information if this combination actually would work because it is 24mm and not 28mm? Maybe on my EOS M3? making the 24mm to be around 38mm of effective angle of view?
Every answer will be gratefully received from you the experienced CPL-landscape-Photographers!
/Charl
My suggestion Charl, is to stop investing in top tier gear for the moment. Stop posting on internet forums for the moment and go and invest in some top landscape tutorial workshops. So work out who's professional work you really like in your area and contact that particular photographer and ask them what workshops they offer...then book up on as many as you fancy. it will be costly but the experience will be amazing and invaluable. You will learn more in a day than you ever will on a word based forum. Some things need to learned on the job and once the technical aspect of photography is mastered, one can concentrate on the art and mood. It will cost and maybe as much as a good lens. But the photos and experience you'll be taking will stay with you for a life time which will transcend your kit.
In the UK, I would seriously recommend Guy Edwardes, but he's workshops are very very popular.

Charl,

I disagree with the above. If you have the money and desire to own great equipment, do so. If you find helpful answers from Internet forums, use them. If you learn well by watching Youtube videos, or online courses from KelbyOne, Lynda, CreativeLive or other sources, use them. If you can take the time to attend a quality workshop with a live instructor and like that format, do so. But whatever you do keep shooting and learning.

Keith
 

ZoeEnPhos

©­­®¹
Hi Neuroanatomist!
First a big THANK to you sir, for your good advice in use of manual focus in combination with a CPL filter!

I am very pleased when reading your advice of not using the Exposure Simulation with Live View, and I will try out this next time I will use the CPL!
Yes in fact I have been using so far the Exp Sim in Live View mode, as a default on the camera!


Also I am grateful for the facts of using the CPL B+W CPL on the TS-E24mm!
By the way the cityscape-view of "Kapellbrücke" is beautiful! Nice work thank you for sharing the Photo!
neuroanatomist said:
Have you tried disabling live view exposure simulation? Or with it enabled (which is the default) you can add positive EC to brighten up the image (which it sounds like you might need to do anyway, if you're seeing a dark image with Exp Sim active, since that tries to simulate the final image). As a side note, when looking through the viewfinder using tilt/shift affects the camera's metering, so if you're setting exposure based on the VF metering, it's going to be off unless the lens is in a neutral position when you meter.



(from Schneider-Kreuznach: "The maximum polarization effect is achieved in landscape photography when shooting at an angle of 90° to the sun. For an even effect in the picture, and because of uneven skylight polarization, your focal length should not be less than 28 mm in 35 mm format.]


I have the B+W Käsemann 82mm for my TS-E 24L II and 24-70/2.8L II, it works fine on both lenses and I don't notice significant artifacts (uneven polarization) at 24mm. The shot below of the Chapel Bridge in Lucerne, Switzerland was taken with the TS-E 24 + CPL (with a B+W 10-stop ND behind the CPL...now that makes live view focusing a challenge, but in this case exposure simulation was enough to allow me to focus - it usually works with a 30 s exposure but fails when I need to use bulb for >30 s exposures).

The uneven polarization is a progressive effect, not terribly noticeable at 24mm, but it get's worse the wider you go, lower than 20mm it's noticeable and by 16mm it's very evident. However, that doesn't mean you can't use a CPL with an ultrawide lens – you can manage the effect in the skies so it's not displeasing (with composition) or, more commonly, if you're using a CPL to reduce reflections from water/etc., it works well if the water is not spanning the width of the frame.
By the way I have been photographing since my childhood, but not using the CPL filters in my landscape photographs, so I think there is maybe a little learning curve in the beginning of using the CPL and when
having plenty of time to actually start using the CPL on more of the regular base,
maybe more use of the CPL filter in landscape photography in different light situations,
will hopefully make this becoming true that;
"Practice make perfect" or at least I wish to maybe get a bit better raw-files
to work with in LR CC?

Again one more time a warm thank to you Neuroanatomist,
for your excellent advice you shared with me here! Much appreciated!

Wishing you all the very Best and happy shootings!

/Best Regards,
Charl
(Adding a Midsummer night view from the Tyresta National Park of the fissure valley lake called "Årsjön" in Sweden)
 

Attachments

Click

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 29, 2012
13,434
1,677
Canada
GMCPhotographics said:
Oh...and to the Op....I regularly use a CPL on lenses wider than 24mm. Here's a shot at 16mm:
WOW lovely light. Beautiful shot, GMCPhotographics. 8)
 

ZoeEnPhos

©­­®¹
GMCPhotographics said:
Oh...and to the Op....I regularly use a CPL on lenses wider than 24mm. Here's a shot at 16mm:

Most wonderful seascape! Lovely light and a beautiful composition! Well done sir! I like your Photo very much!
Thank you for sharing this inspiring and great Photo of yours!
Wishing you all the very Best always!
/C
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
24,647
2,167
ZoeEnPhos said:
Hi Neuroanatomist!
First a big THANK to you sir, for your good advice in use of manual focus in combination with a CPL filter!

I am very pleased when reading your advice of not using the Exposure Simulation with Live View, and I will try out this next time I will use the CPL!
Yes in fact I have been using so far the Exp Sim in Live View mode, as a default on the camera!

Also I am grateful for the facts of using the CPL B+W CPL on the TS-E24mm!
By the way the cityscape-view of "Kapellbrücke" is beautiful! Nice work thank you for sharing the Photo!
Glad to help, and thanks. Although, I prefer the blue hour shot of the Kapellbrüke shot that I took after dinner...

"Kapellbrücke at Night"

EOS 1D X, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM @ 50mm, 20 s, f/11, ISO 200


ZoeEnPhos said:
(Adding a Midsummer night view from the Tyresta National Park of the fissure valley lake called "Årsjön" in Sweden)
Lovely shot, thanks for sharing!