Adobe reports record Q4 and fiscal 2020 revenue

-pekr-

EOS R5
CR Pro
My wife uses Adobe too and is pretty fluent with that. I was the man of alternatives (Nik, on1, Affinity). Adobe is closing the ring around them, adding more and more simplistic things for average joe, and that's good.

But I still can't forget those dicks mostly introduced a subscription model to the world, and it spreads like a plague. For SW that model is a total BS and working in IT segment for 30+ years I know, they might as well use annual product maintanance payments. The only company, which fixed this subscription model in a photo area, is on1 - once you stop payments, you are left with the latest version. With others, you are left just with your uneditable files.
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,127
316
.....The only company, which fixed this subscription model in a photo area, is on1 - once you stop payments, you are left with the latest version.....
Doesn't C1 also have that model?
 

degos

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2015
371
305
For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month, the price of a couple of coffees, are you seriously suggesting that is the straw that breaks the camels back?

First, only a small proportion of the population buy overpriced store coffees...

Second, you oft-quoted $7.50 is the cost for the Adobe software per month. Is that the only software a business uses? Of course not. So if all vendors move to a subscription model then each of them is taking a little slice per person per month. That's what adds up.
 

Antono Refa

EOS R
Mar 26, 2014
1,250
410
Look at the bright side of subscriptions (from Adobe POV) - even if your business is on the verge of collapsing you still have to pay Adobe or your tools will mostly stop working and will put you in an even worse situation.

Then use some other photo editing software with a perpetual license, like PaintShop Pro. I suspect most photographers prefer Photoshop because its a better software. E.g. a trial version of PSP couldn't stitch panoramas Photoshop did, and adding PTGui would raise the price to about two years of Photoshop subscription.

If you have stored images on its cloud, they could be deleted if you don't keep on paying.

Having a single copy of your images is a bad idea anyway.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,076
357
Vancouver, BC
Cameras are a finite product. Software is not.

Cameras are a physically manufactured product, while software is not. This means that there are fewer material inputs, but there are many other costs, some of which are greater in complicated modern software like Adobe CS, like the cost of thousands of employees to support and improve it.
 

Terry Danks

I'm New Here
Sep 2, 2018
14
17
OK, I was one of those who said "No way!" to subscription SW.
It was a large nuisance having to learn new SW from scratch.
But I did and, two years down the road, I'm content that I did.
What I don't get is quite why so many seem think they just must stay with Adobe because somehow, "it's better." Or worse, "it's the best!" If you haven't become proficient in at least one other package, how would you know?
Not at all sure I'd go back to PS now, even if it were free. I feel no need to do so. Affinity and DPP suit me fine.
As one internet maven has proclaimed, there IS "life after Adobe!"
 

-pekr-

EOS R5
CR Pro
For most people here you are talking about $7.50 a month, the price of a couple of coffees, are you seriously suggesting that is the straw that breaks the camels back? I’d put the horrific cost of health insurance hundreds of dollars a month above that, or how about a $60+ a month phone plan, or cable tv with virtually no options for $45 a month if you also buy other services you don’t want or barely work at the same rate. How about $130 a ticket for a single day at Disney, that is more than it costs for a year of the leading professional imaging software.

But Adobe are far from the only business software that is subscription based, in fact in the business arena Adobe stand out as setting their subscription fees at a very low price point.

For us, Adobe plan is almost 13 EUR / month. Noone pays 60$ for phone plan nowadays imo, services like HBO, Netflix, Spotify or even Tidal are quite cheap too. But first and foremost - you don't have to buy them. And once you stop using them, you lose just your entertainment. With stuff like Adobe, you completly lose the ability to re-edit your work. You are forever dependant and that's why I regard it being the retarded plague by nature.

There was simply no need to reinvent the wheel of licensing - product + annual maintanance payments eventually. Well, apart from company greed.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,265
463
For us, Adobe plan is almost 13 EUR / month. Noone pays 60$ for phone plan nowadays imo, services like HBO, Netflix, Spotify or even Tidal are quite cheap too. But first and foremost - you don't have to buy them. And once you stop using them, you lose just your entertainment. With stuff like Adobe, you completly lose the ability to re-edit your work. You are forever dependant and that's why I regard it being the retarded plague by nature.

There was simply no need to reinvent the wheel of licensing - product + annual maintanance payments eventually. Well, apart from company greed.
Compared to the rest of photography Adobe is relatively reasonably priced. I get great value out of it. Adobe is doing well because it has its price right for the majority of users . When it was a once off price it was prohibitive and a lot of illegal copies existed. Yes a lot of people don’t like the subscription model but it’s work really well for Adobe.
It’s way better value than Topaz and Luminar. Annual paid upgrades are a pain and dubious value. I’ve only briefly looked at Luminar AI so far and it seems tacky. No Great Leap Forward anyway.
 

-pekr-

EOS R5
CR Pro
Compared to the rest of photography Adobe is relatively reasonably priced. I get great value out of it. Adobe is doing well because it has its price right for the majority of users . When it was a once off price it was prohibitive and a lot of illegal copies existed. Yes a lot of people don’t like the subscription model but it’s work really well for Adobe.
It’s way better value than Topaz and Luminar. Annual paid upgrades are a pain and dubious value. I’ve only briefly looked at Luminar AI so far and it seems tacky. No Great Leap Forward anyway.

I don't mind subscription as per se, but the lock-in which happens - there might be the situation, when you are not willing to pay anymore. If you would buy your product, you would be able to use it almost infinitely, until OS upgrade breaks it. Not so with the subscription, when you are left with uneditable work. And that's why I like on1 - you can buy their product, or pay for the Pro version, which is both a bit expensive, but contains many bonus materials, courses, but also the product itself. If you opt-out, you are left with the latest version you have paid for. If Adobe or others would provide this opt-out price to own the product, I would not say a word. As for Luminiar, it is mostly an overhyped product :)
 
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privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,713
4,290
First, only a small proportion of the population buy overpriced store coffees...

Second, you oft-quoted $7.50 is the cost for the Adobe software per month. Is that the only software a business uses? Of course not. So if all vendors move to a subscription model then each of them is taking a little slice per person per month. That's what adds up.
I don't know where you live but the queues I see outside Tim Horton's, Starbuck's, et al are testament to the fact that Starbuck's has a Dec 2020 market capitalization of $121 Billion. Judging by figures like that it seems more than a small proportion of the population buy coffee, even though that really wasn't my point. My point was that the price is not expensive when put in the context of other everyday expenses.

As to your second point, what other true business software is there that costs less? But more importantly, what do other expenses businesses incur have to do with Adobe? it is the only software my business buys and when I get to the point my business can't afford $7.50 for cutting edge software I know I am not a business anymore and will move that subscription to a personal expense, because for me it is worth it.

I have a friend who pays $1,700 a month for a studio space, $400 for electricity and insurance, he pays $125 for his two company mobile phones, he also has domestic rent, car payments etc etc, $7.50 a month is a rounding error, it is inconsequential in the business environment.
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,713
4,290
For us, Adobe plan is almost 13 EUR / month. Noone pays 60$ for phone plan nowadays imo, services like HBO, Netflix, Spotify or even Tidal are quite cheap too. But first and foremost - you don't have to buy them. And once you stop using them, you lose just your entertainment. With stuff like Adobe, you completly lose the ability to re-edit your work. You are forever dependant and that's why I regard it being the retarded plague by nature.

There was simply no need to reinvent the wheel of licensing - product + annual maintanance payments eventually. Well, apart from company greed.
Really? Try running a business without an unlimited mobile plan, here in the USA unlimited plans run $50-90 for one line. https://www.rollingstone.com/produc...onics/best-unlimited-data-phone-plan-1057743/

I can fully understand people not wanting to rent software, I don't understand why they think companies making business software should make versions for non business users and why they should make it down to a price they feel they should be charged with completely different end user licenses.

Adobe are and have always been primarily business software producers.

There absolutely was a desperate need for Adobe to reinvent the wheel with regards their income. Look at the myriad of articles available about the change from a business perspective. The company were very brave but they had their backs to the wall and were going bankrupt so even though it was a huge calculated gamble it was completely necessary.
 
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YuengLinger

Godzilla needs boxing lessons.
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,483
1,932
USA
Of all the big corporations to be angry about, I don't see Adobe has a high priority. Credit card companies that charge 15-30% interest in times of 0% interest. (And the actual interest rates are much higher because many will charge interest on the original amount charged even after some of the principle has been paid off!)

Amazon? How many businesses are they disrupting to the point of bankruptcy? It ain't just bookstores anymore. And before Amazon it was good old Walmart.

Big corporate fast-food? Does anybody remember in the USA when diners and independent coffee shops and restaurants of all types were omnipresent in small towns and big cities? Good luck finding a place for breakfast other than crappy fast-food now. Good luck. From coast to coast, America has some of the most consistently awful food in the world. Exceptions are disappearing at a record rate, thanks to Covid.

Entertainment? Pay for cable channels to have nearly 50% of the viewing time commercials. Streaming? Loving it? Oh, yeah, baby, because here come the data caps, big time across the whole USA, with either throttling or very high over-usage fees--unless you pony up to pay about as much as larger cable bills.

And how about taxes? And energy costs?

Ok, CR is a photography forum, so Adobe seems relevant and fair game, but it is pretty ineffective griping about them as a reason to be struggling in an oversaturated field. And with youtube teaching everybody within a few weeks how to get pretty good portraits? Wow, people skills are indispensable, because now you have to find a very successful, extremely busy, discerning, and vein client willing to pay $800 plus for individual and family portraits. Not to mention how cheap it is to get into passable real estate photography, and how easy the basics are to learn. Yes, there are enough "bottom feeder" agents, and lately so much demand, that high-end photographers just don't have much market. School portraits? My state has a couple regional monopolies, and the individual schools aren't allowed to use somebody independent.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Now imagine you are working for Adobe or another software company. Would you want your job put on pause between upgrades? Would you prefer to just do temp contract work only while the company prepares a new version? Or would you rather have a steady income, a job you can depend on because of the subscription model? Please see other sides of this issue.

I've had a couple aggravating moments with Creative Cloud, twice when I was 100% locked out of LR CC and Photoshop. It hasn't happened in over 18 months, but for some reason I wasn't connected to the web in my home, and all my Adobe stuff just would not open until I did connect. Maybe a bug, I never found out. But, to put that in perspective, I've had internet outages, power outages in lovely weather, a van battery that died after only three years, "smart" TV's freeze up, a two year old fridge's icemaker crap out...Big freaking deal in a life of utter dependence on technology of one sort or another.

Go ahead, get mad at Adobe for making a profit. Resent the success of others. But I can't imagine it accomplishes anything or makes you feel one bit better.

Inhale....Exhale...Ommmm... :cool:
 
Last edited:

Fischer

EOS RP
Mar 17, 2020
258
182
Hate their subscription software model which caused me a lot of issues. But have resigned to the same strategy as I used for Microsoft, Apple, Amazon etc. Bought their shares. Has already paid for any Adobe software I'll ever use. YMMV.
 
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CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,352
3,700
Irving, Texas
Adobe who? I've moved on to Affinity Photo. I still need to learn it like I knew PS but for as much as I used PS it made perfect sense to make switch. It does 100% of what I need and probably will for 99% of you. I love how Adobe is a billion dollar company now and can't give the starving artists a break with pricing during a year pandemic and lost jobs. Sad Adobe sad..
Dude, it's about $12 a month for the photographer package. Should they throw in a "Happy Meal" toy to make you feel ok? :ROFLMAO:
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
1,076
1,104
$ 12 a month is what you'd pay for one disgusting Big Mac and an even more disgusting Starbucks so-called coffee...
So, my choice is quickly made.
 
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zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,127
316
$ 12 a month is what you'd pay for one disgusting Big Mac and an even more disgusting Starbucks so-called coffee...
So, my choice is quickly made.
Haven't had a big mac (or whopper) in years but I always found it ironic that the absolutely worst awful disgusting burger I've ever had was in America!

(Deliberate attempt to go OT :LOL: )
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
1,902
689
Davidson, NC
I've had a couple aggravating moments with Creative Cloud, twice when I was 100% locked out of LR CC and Photoshop. It hasn't happened in over 18 months, but for some reason I wasn't connected to the web in my home, and all my Adobe stuff just would not open until I did connect. Maybe a bug, I never found out. But, to put that in perspective, I've had internet outages, power outages in lovely weather, a van battery that died after only three years, "smart" TV's freeze up, a two year old fridge's icemaker crap out...Big freaking deal in a life of utter dependence on technology of one sort or another.
I've had very minor issues with CC, and that was long ago. In contrast, almost every upgrade of Photoshop I installed before that presented some sort of challenge that I could get resolved only by calling Adobe's customer service. I was used to spending about $600 a year on Adobe upgrades, so a $50/month subscription didn't seem like an expensive substitute. Since I have retired, I have used InDesign a lot less. And with the increasing functionality of Photoshop, I have used Illustrator not as often. I edit an occasional video with FCP X rather than Premiere, because I'm more used to it. So I have not so much use for the other programs, and could probably drop down to the $12 plan and not regret it more than once a month, but am at a stage in life where a bit more convenience seems worth more than having a few hundred extra $$ in my estate when I die.

I got a Big Mac a couple weeks ago, and it tasted better than I had remembered. I may get another one in the coming weeks, and McDonald's has pretty good coffee, and much cheaper than Starbucks.

I don't have an ice maker. I learned years ago that even modern refrigerators don't often have problems except for the ice maker. I'm dependent upon ESPN+ for many of the basketball games I watch these days, even games taking place a half mile from my house, such as the recent Vanderbilt game. A couple times now games I was watching on the Apple TV would freeze and I would eventually get some sort of error message. Somehow, however, I could watch the game on my iPad. I don't know how to trouble shoot that. Given how much of my life, especially now, involves electronic devices, I really don't have that many problems.
 
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privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,713
4,290
I haven‘t suffered any of the myriad of ‘issues’ Adobe have been blamed for over the years, until recently. When I did my last LR and PS update it broke the connection to my wide format Canon printer. It took quite a while working with Canon support to realize the blame needed to be shifted to Adobe!

I always retain the older version should I have issues and just didn’t think to try from the older PS before going down the Canon blame rabbit hole.

As for burgers and coffee, I’ll take a Five Guys though I’ll pass on most of the rest, and I’m cheap so pretty much any ’coffee’ will do.
 
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