Adorama issues anyone? Ever try to return a product?
- Thread starter MARKOE PHOTOE
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I started this forum about an issue I was currently having with Adorama and I didn't want to discolor them until I knew I would get complete satisfaction. At this time, with the help from Adorama's Ms. Helen Oster, I have rec'd a full refund.
My complaint was simple, at least in my mind.
Here is what happened:
Ordered a new lens Sunday night only to realize I had also won the same used lens on Ebay, to my surprise, so I decided to cancel the new lens (Zeiss 100 F2.0 $1,875.00). I called Adorma right then they opened and started to cancel my order when I got cut off in the middle of our conversation. That started it right there. I called back immediately and got another CS rep who said it had just shipped but I would get a full refund.
It was a Paypal purchase and they deducted my account immediately.
What they didn't tell me was that the shipment would have to go all the way to CA from NJ and back to them, get inspected and then wait possilbly 8 days for a refund. I was fuming. I didn't have product and couldn't possibly get my money back until they 'had spoken'. Spoke with numerous reps and felt this was terribly wrong since I didn't even receive anything.
The shipment from NJ made two transfers to get to CA and neither one returned the shipment to the seller.
To top it off, after the CS rep said it was cancelled and I would get a full refund, I get an email 7 hours later that my shipment had just left!
OK, fine, I thought. I'll receive the shipment and then just pay to have it returned on my nickel. Seems I couldn't do that either and I still could not get my refund until their shipment goes all the way to CA and back to NJ.
Long story, Ms. Oster pulled some strings and got my refund in 5 days.
Thanks again Helen!
Second and last story. Sold my Canon 300 f2.8L to Adorama a few years ago after negotiating and agreeing to a mutual price. Lens looked like a war horse but was super sharp and fast. Problem was it took almost 6 weeks to get the check from Adorama! After numerous emails, hours on the phone to numerous reps, broken promises, you name it, I learned a valuable there.
In summary, I don't care if they have 300,00 boxes they have to account for daily, my box is just as important as any other of the 299K boxes and I've worked hard to get it.
So, would I go back to Adorama? Maybe...but only to purchase.
My apologies for not following up sooner.
My complaint was simple, at least in my mind.
Here is what happened:
Ordered a new lens Sunday night only to realize I had also won the same used lens on Ebay, to my surprise, so I decided to cancel the new lens (Zeiss 100 F2.0 $1,875.00). I called Adorma right then they opened and started to cancel my order when I got cut off in the middle of our conversation. That started it right there. I called back immediately and got another CS rep who said it had just shipped but I would get a full refund.
It was a Paypal purchase and they deducted my account immediately.
What they didn't tell me was that the shipment would have to go all the way to CA from NJ and back to them, get inspected and then wait possilbly 8 days for a refund. I was fuming. I didn't have product and couldn't possibly get my money back until they 'had spoken'. Spoke with numerous reps and felt this was terribly wrong since I didn't even receive anything.
The shipment from NJ made two transfers to get to CA and neither one returned the shipment to the seller.
To top it off, after the CS rep said it was cancelled and I would get a full refund, I get an email 7 hours later that my shipment had just left!
OK, fine, I thought. I'll receive the shipment and then just pay to have it returned on my nickel. Seems I couldn't do that either and I still could not get my refund until their shipment goes all the way to CA and back to NJ.
Long story, Ms. Oster pulled some strings and got my refund in 5 days.
Thanks again Helen!
Second and last story. Sold my Canon 300 f2.8L to Adorama a few years ago after negotiating and agreeing to a mutual price. Lens looked like a war horse but was super sharp and fast. Problem was it took almost 6 weeks to get the check from Adorama! After numerous emails, hours on the phone to numerous reps, broken promises, you name it, I learned a valuable there.
In summary, I don't care if they have 300,00 boxes they have to account for daily, my box is just as important as any other of the 299K boxes and I've worked hard to get it.
So, would I go back to Adorama? Maybe...but only to purchase.
My apologies for not following up sooner.
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MARKOE PHOTOE said:
Thanks are due in no small part to my colleague, Leah, who really did so much of the pushing to get this turned around so quickly
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DerStig
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Helen Oster said:TTMartin said:
I can see why this might be an unpopular policy, so I'd like to explain; when we offer 'free' shipping (not really 'free', cos someone has to pay it, ie Adorama), it's like us offering you a discount on the goods or a gift.
If we were giving you a couple of 'free' batteries as a gift with your order, and you returned the order because you changed your mind, you wouldn't be upset with us if we hoped to get the batteries back as well - I assume?
It's the same with the shipping. We use part of what would otherwise be profit for us - we are a business, after all - to cover the cost of the shipping. If you return the item to us we potentially lose twice over; once because we can no longer sell the item as new and again if we don't ask you to cover the shipping cost that we gave you as a 'gift' WITH the order.
Can you imagine how many people could potentially abuse the free shipping alongside the 30-day returns period to 'rent' goods from us? (Actually, a number already do....) Ultimately, the price is paid by everyone else.
Not sure if I've explained it clearly, so please don't hesitate to email me directly if I haven't![email protected]
Helen,
The problem is that your competitors, Amazon to be exact, does not have such strict and unpopular rules. I hope Adorama management realizes that.
When I buy something from Amazon, I pay no shipping, and if the item has a problem, I return it, no questions asked, and get my money back in a total of 4-5 days (from the time of me dropping the item off at UPS). They never charge for return shipping, in fact, they even pay EXTRA for insurance on your behalf for items that have MSRP of higher than $1,000. Now please tell me, why would people buy from Adorama instead of Amazon when Amazon price matches Adorama instantly?
I definitely see your point, but unfortunately we are in year 2012 and if you guys don't want to loose market share, you will need to adjust your strategies. Take me for example:
- I just recently bought a 5d Mark 3 with 24-105 kit lens, Canon 50mm L F1.2, 2 nano UV filters, and bunch of other things. I spent around 5.5-6k.
- I wanted to sell my used gear so I said, why don't I go to Adorama, explain them what I want to do, and maybe they'll offer me a decent price on my used equipment.
- Guess what, I was offered ridiculously low prices on my used items. So low that, my jaw dropped. A lens for example that everyone was selling in Amazon/E-bay for $250, I was offered $120. That's half of market price. I understand you have to also earn, but you need to see the big picture (which they didn't). I was ready to spend a ton of money on your shop only if you were a bit lenient for a few hundred dollars. But anyways, even then I was ready to pull the trigger as a few hundred dollars wasn't going to stop me. I only wanted to mention this so that maybe you can relay the message.
- Next thing I realized, for NJ, you pay sales tax! That's like another extra $400, bam, right there it hit me. But guess what, even then, I still wanted to go for it, because just as I was going to do the checkout, I realized you offered bundles amazon didn't (with extra lenses or software, which I could sell later on to make up the difference).
- Finally, it was the "return policy" that had me close my browser and go to amazon.com. I'm a customer, I will go to the place that has the best service possible with the least amount of headaches. After reading your return policy, I said, what the heck, I'm not going to deal with this. When I want to return something to amazon, I click 2 buttons, print a UPS shipping label that they pay for, I put the stuff in the box it came with, and I return. Nobody asks me questions. Granted I don't abuse the system and I'm sure some people do, but I don't care, why should I? It's my hard earned money, and I want the best service possible. When I buy a $2,000 lens and it's back focusing, I don't want it to be fixed or sent it to canon, I don't care. I want a brand new one, BEFORE, I send out the old one so that I don't stay without the lens. You see, that's how a consumer's mind works. If I bought the camera from you and if it had an issue, I would have to go to UPS, pay for shipping, pay for insurance, and worry about the shipment and loose sleep over if the box made it safely to your warehouse. With amazon, as soon as I drop the package at UPS, my responsibility ends. It doesn't mater if a meteor hits the UPS store, they still give me my money back (or the replacement). If I want to exchange something, they send me a replacement, no questions asked, they don't charge my card or put authorization on it, they give me 30 days to return the old one.
By the way, of all the things I bought, I didn't have to return anything. So if I bought them from Adorama, it would have been fine, but I just didn't want the "risk" of headache, does that make sense?
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DerStig said:
Hand on heart I have never thought of Amazon as a competitor.
Amazon.com, Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN) is the world's largest online retailer with headquarters in Seattle.
It has separate retail websites for USA, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Japan and China. There are 12 fulfilment centers in the US; 3 in Canada; 7 across China and Japan; 12 in the UK; plus 11 across the rest of Europe.
Adorama is a family business, a specialist photographic retailer with many staff who are photographers themselves - with our office above a single store in NYC, and one warehouse in New Jersey......
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Loswr
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DerStig said:
Ummm...you do realize that you're legally obligated to pay the NJ Sales and Use Tax on those Amazon purchases, right? From NJ Pub ANJ-7: "Out-of-State Purchases Delivered to New Jersey. When taxable goods and services are purchased in another state and delivered to New Jersey for use in New Jersey, no credit is allowed for sales tax paid to the other state. Use tax is due at the rate of 7% of the purchase price, including delivery charges."
You're supposed to declare such purchases and remit the tax to the State, either separetely within 20 days or on your state income tax return. Bam, right there. Just sayin'.
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DerStig said:
Despite the language of their policy, that was not my actual experience with them when I had a legit problem with a 5D2 I bought from them. When I informed them of the problem they did not push back at all and emailed me a shipping label without me even asking for one. So apparently the language is meant to hedge against abuses and they take care of good customers with legit issues. Not to say that the language isn't a turn off for some people, because clearly it turned you off.
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neuroanatomist said:
Because we have our Distribution Center in NJ we have to collect the tax on yor behalf, which I guess should actually be more convenient as it saves you the time dealing with it in retrospect.
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Nah uhhhhh!!! I don't gotta pay no sales tax on the internet!
Those days are numbered, it is all coming to an end, very soon.
Those days are numbered, it is all coming to an end, very soon.
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DerStig
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Helen Oster said:
Helen,
I symphatize, that's why I took the time and trouble to register and post this. If I didn't care, I wouldn't bother.
Unless you guys start selling everything with a discount, you will have this issue. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure this out.
In business, companies that fail to adapt don't survive. Its unfortunate but true, blockbuster, aol, etc are a few. What Adorama can do is to follow Amazon model where Amazon provides this Prime service for $75/year. You could ask people to pay a premium, say $100/year, and those people don't pay for return shipping, or don't need to return an item first before a replacement arrives. Furthermore, you could flag abusive users and kick them out. It's not really hard.
Anyways, its your store, your business. I just wanted to post this here so that maybe you can relay the message to the right people who can do something about it.
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I have used Adorama for many years and swear by them. If on the rare occasion, I find a legitimate lower price elsewhere, I call them up and they match it! I preordered a 5D3 in early March and it was shipped the day the camera was released. That is quite different than the horror stories from people who ordered from Amazon and B&H. B&H is normally my second choice, but when they close for over a week for the holidays it is a real pain. I know about use tax but comeon, let's be realistic. The sales tax on the 5D3 alone would ave been ~$300. Please note that I also drive over the speed limit on occasion. Adorama rocks!
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
With Texas Badger's positive comment, I think it is now time for the administrators to lock this thread down. It is going nowhere.
I applaud Helen's patience, but a extended debate over one company's business model vs. another company's business model doesn't seem all that productive.
It's more than a bit ironic that this thread started out as a screed against a company's customer service (with no details as to what the issue supposedly was) and now it has degenerated into a lecture on why companies with brick and mortar stores and real employees and who already compete aggressively on pricing ought to be offering free return shipping just because a company whose business model is built on avoiding taxes, avoiding infrastructure investment and avoiding investment in human capital does so. Frankly, as a customer, I don't want to subsidize the whims of other customers who order products they don't want and then think that their fickleness ought to be subsidized by responsible and reliable customers.
Or maybe the point is that companies that sell used equipment ought to be offering higher prices to sellers of used equipment, regardless of whether or not those prices would allow them to make a profit. It's gotten a little hard to tell exactly what the complaint is, if there is one.
I share TexasBadger's enthusiasm for Adorama and have been in that camp for more than 30 years. It's fine if others disagree, but must we continue this pointless debate?
Time to shut this one down.
I applaud Helen's patience, but a extended debate over one company's business model vs. another company's business model doesn't seem all that productive.
It's more than a bit ironic that this thread started out as a screed against a company's customer service (with no details as to what the issue supposedly was) and now it has degenerated into a lecture on why companies with brick and mortar stores and real employees and who already compete aggressively on pricing ought to be offering free return shipping just because a company whose business model is built on avoiding taxes, avoiding infrastructure investment and avoiding investment in human capital does so. Frankly, as a customer, I don't want to subsidize the whims of other customers who order products they don't want and then think that their fickleness ought to be subsidized by responsible and reliable customers.
Or maybe the point is that companies that sell used equipment ought to be offering higher prices to sellers of used equipment, regardless of whether or not those prices would allow them to make a profit. It's gotten a little hard to tell exactly what the complaint is, if there is one.
I share TexasBadger's enthusiasm for Adorama and have been in that camp for more than 30 years. It's fine if others disagree, but must we continue this pointless debate?
Time to shut this one down.
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Old topic but same issues,
Adorama has for the most part treated me fine as long as I made purchases. Returns are a different story. Case in point recently 08-2015
1) Item returned to Adorama, all return polices adhered to....no communication...no refund..three telephone calls, one e-mail..no refund...still no return communication
2) Item retuned to B&H, all return policies adhered to ...e-mail acknowledging receipt of said item, e-mail informing of refund and when it should be expected ...refund received
These returns items were received the same day at Adorama and B&H...Where to shop in the future?
It seems these are reaccuring issues at Adorama from customer complaints...yet nothing changes
I've spent thousands at both in the last five years...Where to spend money in the next five years? hmmm?
Adorama has for the most part treated me fine as long as I made purchases. Returns are a different story. Case in point recently 08-2015
1) Item returned to Adorama, all return polices adhered to....no communication...no refund..three telephone calls, one e-mail..no refund...still no return communication
2) Item retuned to B&H, all return policies adhered to ...e-mail acknowledging receipt of said item, e-mail informing of refund and when it should be expected ...refund received
These returns items were received the same day at Adorama and B&H...Where to shop in the future?
It seems these are reaccuring issues at Adorama from customer complaints...yet nothing changes
I've spent thousands at both in the last five years...Where to spend money in the next five years? hmmm?
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twagn said:
I was deeply concerned to read that this was your experience, and firstly would like to offer a deep and sincere apology for the frustration caused.
If you have a moment to email me directly: [email protected], with the order number plus return tracking details, I shall be delighted to check into this right away.
Once again my apologies, and I very much look forward to hearing from you.
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