Advice: On buying 5D3.

[newjerseykita]

I've been shooting for just over 2 years now, invested around 6K in Canon gear, and i've been waiting for the 5D3 to come out for a long time so i can finally have the Full Frame Advantage.

However after looking at the DXO ratings, and the Fred Miranda review (in regards to pulling the shadows up to par with the image) i can't help to feel betrayed by Canon. it looks like the D800 jus took a HUGE DUMP on Canon.

With all of this said, how can i justify dropping 3.5K on this camera? I've started off with 7D so i haven't seen the what seems to be the disappointment of the 5D II AF system. I have the money, i'm ready to spend. I just need the convincing that this will be a worthwhile investment.

Background: 19 Y/O, Own: 7D, 50mm 1.4, 24-70mm L. 70-200mm L 2.8 Mark II, Sigma 10mm Fisheye (ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH 1.6 sensors.), and the 530EXII. Plan on getting internship to shoot weddings to build up my portfolio this summer. This camera seems like THE WEDDING CAMERA.

So, some professionals/enthusiasts/knowledgeable people. Give me some advice, i'd really appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.

Edit: I frequent Canon Rumors daily, and have been reading forums for as long as i've been looking at this site, this is my first post however, bear that in mind. hahaha Cheers.

 

[dswatson83]

Keep in mind Fred Miranda is shooting landscapes and does not care much for autofocus, burst speed, silent shooting, high ISO abilities, and video. These are the main areas that Canon updated better than the D800 and over the Mark II it offers better build quality and dual memory slots as well. These are also features that would be of HIGH importance if you were going into wedding/event photography. Even if the DxO report wasn't flawed, it is mostly testing Dynamic Range and with some caveats so I wouldn't worry about the score. The D800 is a great camera in and of itself but the slower shooting and large files will not work well for a wedding/event photographers' workflow. I highly doubt any bride will be pixel peeping at her skin flaws either to see the D800s greatest advantage.

The fact is that the Mark III is a great camera and will be the flagship event camera for the next 3-4 years. So even if it doesn't meet some crazy expectations, it is what it is and its better than the mark II in every way. I'd definitely purchase though I am waiting a little bit longer for the issues to be resolved, accessories to be released, and Lightroom/photoshop to be officially updated with full support. I'm dreaming for a price drop but I doubt that dream will come true.

 

[newjerseykita]

I'd definitely purchase though I am waiting a little bit longer for the issues to be resolved, accessories to be released, and Lightroom/photoshop to be officially updated with full support. I'm dreaming for a price drop but I doubt that dream will come true.

Exactly, as of recent in regards to the 5D3 i've seen more negative feed back than good. I realize that people love taking smack over fact. It looks like a awesome camera, but its $500 more than the D800 and it seems like it should be priced $300 less than the D800.

Anyways in response to the price drop, why wouldn't they lower the price!? Negative press is NEGATIVE PRESS. As a Public Relations major, this would be a good way to say look, we fucked up, you deserve better than this here's the price difference.

 

[JustinTArthur]

The D800 is an amazing camera. We'll be seeing threads on this forum about it for a long time. Given your lens assortment and your shooting target, I'm gonna side with dswatson83 on this one. With the D800, you're looking at the expense of replacing your lens lineup and the expense of more storage space (assuming you're shooting more than one wedding this summer and shooting raws in a multi-shot mode). Lightroom 4.1 RC1 supports the 5D Mark III files pretty well and the official release should be out soon. You *will* be impressed coming from the 7D and if you're selling your 7D, selling the fisheye will also help with costs.

I don't think you'd regret spending the time and money to switch to the Nikon system, but I think you can easily justify the purchase of the 5D Mark III—and have no regrets there either.

And if you're having a really hard time deciding, rent and find out which one you like better!

 

[elflord]

I've been shooting for just over 2 years now, invested around 6K in Canon gear, and i've been waiting for the 5D3 to come out for a long time so i can finally have the Full Frame Advantage.

However after looking at the DXO ratings, and the Fred Miranda review (in regards to pulling the shadows up to par with the image) i can't help to feel betrayed by Canon. it looks like the D800 jus took a HUGE DUMP on Canon.

With all of this said, how can i justify dropping 3.5K on this camera? I've started off with 7D so i haven't seen the what seems to be the disappointment of the 5D II AF system. I have the money, i'm ready to spend. I just need the convincing that this will be a worthwhile investment.

Background: 19 Y/O, Own: 7D, 50mm 1.4, 24-70mm L. 70-200mm L 2.8 Mark II, Sigma 10mm Fisheye (ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH 1.6 sensors.), and the 530EXII. Plan on getting internship to shoot weddings to build up my portfolio this summer. This camera seems like THE WEDDING CAMERA.

So, some professionals/enthusiasts/knowledgeable people. Give me some advice, i'd really appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.

Edit: I frequent Canon Rumors daily, and have been reading forums for as long as i've been looking at this site, this is my first post however, bear that in mind. hahaha Cheers.

The main pluses of the D800 discussed in DxO and elsewhere boil down to megapixels and high dynamic range at low ISO (100-200). Above ISO 200, there is little (besides megapixels) to distinguish the sensors. For your use case, you'll probably be shooting at higher ISO most of the time and you will want the extra speed (burst rate). Megapixels will probably be a minus huge files, which will make post processing more resource intensive especially if you're a high volume shooter which you are if you're shooting weddings.

Even if you did switch to Nikon, it's not clear that the D800 is the best choice.

As to how you can justify it -- compare with the 5DII and decide whether the pro level AF is worth the price of admission. Get the 5DII if you don't find the 5DIII enhancements enough of a value add

 

[ZEROrhythm]

I've been shooting for just over 2 years now, invested around 6K in Canon gear, and i've been waiting for the 5D3 to come out for a long time so i can finally have the Full Frame Advantage.

However after looking at the DXO ratings, and the Fred Miranda review (in regards to pulling the shadows up to par with the image) i can't help to feel betrayed by Canon. it looks like the D800 jus took a HUGE DUMP on Canon.

With all of this said, how can i justify dropping 3.5K on this camera? I've started off with 7D so i haven't seen the what seems to be the disappointment of the 5D II AF system. I have the money, i'm ready to spend. I just need the convincing that this will be a worthwhile investment.

Background: 19 Y/O, Own: 7D, 50mm 1.4, 24-70mm L. 70-200mm L 2.8 Mark II, Sigma 10mm Fisheye (ONLY COMPATIBLE WITH 1.6 sensors.), and the 530EXII. Plan on getting internship to shoot weddings to build up my portfolio this summer. This camera seems like THE WEDDING CAMERA.

So, some professionals/enthusiasts/knowledgeable people. Give me some advice, i'd really appreciate it.

Thank you for your time.

Edit: I frequent Canon Rumors daily, and have been reading forums for as long as i've been looking at this site, this is my first post however, bear that in mind. hahaha Cheers.

I think you should give the 5d mark 2 a try if you want to get into full frame. It would probably be the best investment cause it does a great job still and IQ is close to the mark 3. Everyone that uses the mark 2 pretty much use center point AF and it does a fantastic job.It's half the price of the mk3. Mk3 seems to be an odd ball, but it's up to you if you feel like it's your best choice.In the end only one opinion counts, YOU, you will be the one using it.

I'm happy with my mk2 and will wait a bit more to see how canon counters Nikon aggressive push. So far it looks bad for canon. I love my canon lens and I would hate to depart with them if Nikon is going to push the bar higher than canon.

Happy Shooting. Good luck on finding what works best for you.

 

[TAR]

go rent or try to get your hands on D800. see weather you like it. if you like it then get d800. sell all your stuff .. even if you loose 500$ by selling (i hope not), its equivalent to 5d3. but you will be satisfied with what you like.

if you get a 5d3 by others comment and if you dont like , then you will regret or you are forced to convenience yourself. incase if you switch to Nikon you can still use your Nikon lenses with future canon bodies with manual focus. so decide yourself.

 

[distant.star]

While I've listed my reasons why the 5D3 isn't for me, if I were your age and looking to get into the wedding biz -- I'd be out the door in five minutes looking to get a 5D3. From all I've seen so far, it's an extraordinary tool for the wedding photographer. Many years ago I did weddings professionally, and I know what's needed.

Not to knock the Nikon product, but any good wedding photographer with a 5D3 will shoot rings around anything else I can think of, including medium format.

Get the 5D3 and a lens to cover the wide stuff. Then get hooked up with a good wedding photographer with a thriving business and learn all you can.

Good luck -- and I sure envy you the tools I didn't have so many years ago!! You're VERY lucky.

 

[newjerseykita]

@eflord

The main pluses of the D800 discussed in DxO and elsewhere boil down to megapixels and high dynamic range at low ISO (100-200). Above ISO 200, there is little (besides megapixels) to distinguish the sensors. For your use case, you'll probably be shooting at higher ISO most of the time and you will want the extra speed (burst rate). Megapixels will probably be a minus huge files, which will make post processing more resource intensive especially if you're a high volume shooter which you are if you're shooting weddings.

With that information i went back and did some research back on DxO, and DAMN, thank you so much for that little piece of information. They're basically on the same level of each other, how this equates to a 14 point OVERALL DIFFERENCE @ DxO. I don't understand, i just... i can't even. The 5D3 looks like it could be for me.

I've read mtf charts on more lenses than i care to say, and i've compared lenses back and forth, CANON HAS BETTER GLASS. At the end of it all that's where it really comes down to the Glass you're looking through. I'm preaching to the Choir it this point but, i'm 99% sure i'm a Canon man and i've made the right choice.

The only physical look of the 5D3 that i don't like is literally the "Mark III" on the botom left facade of the camera. In simple ebonics "It looks bitch made".. The Mark II looked so boss as that flat golden piece on the bottom left facade of the Mark II. Again, my only gripe with the physical look of it hahaha and OH how insignificant it is.

Hopefully these pictures attach for everyone to see.

 

[rsk7]

First, I would call around to the places you are thinking of interning at and ask their opinion/recommendation. Start establishing a relationship.

Second, If you are seriously thinking of switching I would take the advice to rent the D800 and the glass you think you will want and try it.

Third, If you read Fred Miranda's write up you will see that there are compromises with both systems. Ask yourself why so many of the images posted are taken with the 5D3 and so few with the D800? Also, his article focused on landscape photography and not wedding/event photography and yet his images are mostly 5D3. With the 5D3 he was able to capture the images he thought worthy of posting. His impediments capturing images with the D800 seemed to be related to 1) lack of experience with the D800, 2) issues with D800 live view, 3) lenses

Forth, Read the reviews and comments of the people who actually bought and take real pictures with the 5D3. Mostly, but not entirely, ignore the DXO stats and folks who want to rag on images of lens caps. Yes, the D800 has better DR and shadow recovery. How many of YOUR shots that are properly exposed do you need/want to pull 4 stops our of the shadows?

Just some thoughts.

 

[rafaelsynths]

I think Dxo ratings are rubbish. It's about the photographer not the camera anyways. You will feel disapointed on how the autofocus of the canon 5d mark ii will perform compared to your 7D. Just go rent out the camera if you have the money that is or go try it out at any local camera shop. I'm saving up for the 5Dmark iii. The way it feels in the hands is way better than the d800. Both are good cameras but the ergonomics on the canon is better for me.

 

[K-amps]

If you are into Macro, architecture, scenery and like details & Clarity go with the D800e. If you are into shooting moving things, weddings, kids etc go with the 5d3.

I was in the same boat as yours, I would have loved to have Canon release a 5diii with credentials similar to the D800e in terms of DR & Clarity. I cannot shift over to Nikon because i don't think I will like the ergonomics or would want to lose $1-2k in lens swaps. As it is Canon slapped an overly strong AA filter on it that robs a lot of resolution.

But I know given enough time, Canon will respond with a hi res/clarity Stills cam. Only you know your shooting style. Both are great Bodies.

I was shooting some white flowers with back centers yesterday, it was very hard to expose them correctly with the 5D3, if I got the whites right, the blacks would be drowned in noise (if I pulled them in PP)... there are work arounds, but after spending $3500 on a body, one does wish that one would not have to resort to tricks to get shots that are standard in similarly priced bodies.

 

[mdm041]

I have many of the same lenses and before I got my 5D3 was shooting with the 7d as well. The main reason I upgraded was because of IQ over ISO 800 with the 7D. I found myself in several situations where I missed a shot or I couldn't recover enough detail after NR and sharpening to make the shot worth while.

I have not in the smallest sense been dissapointed. I ordered and received mine last week and have been loving it ever sense. The difference is amazing. I shoot RAW and bring it into Lightroom 4.1RC with no problems. To me the High ISO capability was a big seller but I was happy to see that DETAIL has far surpassed the 7D IMHO. For Weddings with indoor lighting requiring the higher ISO...its hands down the way to go.

I didn't pay the money to have the BEST camera around (this is objective and an always moving target). I paid the money to allow me to take sharp photos in low light situations. The 5D3 does that and it does it well.

I am keeping my 7d because it is a great camera under ISO800 and the crop factor and higher burst helps me when I'm doing outdoor sports photography. I needed a second body anyways. Every event I seemed to miss a shot or two trying to quickly change lenses.

 

[Northstar]

i've been shooting with the 5d3 for a month now, i think you should go for it, it's a great camera. i think it's strongpoint is it's versatility..it's does a lot of things very well. at the end of the day, the dxomark numbers do show the d800 with a better dynamic range and it does have the extra MP, but unless you're comparing images and looking really hard/close/at 200% , those advantages aren't obvious(and even if you're looking really hard and close they might not very obvious)

on the other hand, you don't have to look real hard/close/at 200% to see 6 fps vs 4fps...if you use short burst shooting regularly like i do, you WILL over the course of time capture images that you would have missed with the slower fps of the d800. in my opinion, extra FPS is very valuable.(no wonder it's the primary selling feature for the D4 and 1dx) you can improve an image greatly in post so that the very slight d800 advantage almost disappears, but you can't improve what you don't have because the slower fps missed it.

also...if in case you're considering the 5d2...it's a good camera, but it's aging tech, subpar autofocus, and slower fps would always leave you yearning for new and better.

bottom line...all things considered, the d800 is probably a slightly (i repeat- slightly)better overall camera for someone looking to buy their first dslr camera and related gear -especially for $500 less. but definitely not better enough to switch systems....AND especially if you'll be doing wedding photography which is probably the one area where the 5d3 does have the edge over the d800.

also...the HDR is a nice feature to have for landscapes, and the 5d3 is slightly better than the d800 in this area.
also...the silent shooting (especially for weddings) is better on the 5d3...1 or 3fps and it's quieter than d800.
I think video is about a wash...pros and cons going both ways.

I agree with your initial assessment, the 5d3 should be priced at $3000 or slightly less than the d800..not more. I would bet that by this time next year the prices on these cameras switch so that the d800 sells for more than 5d3...that's my prediction.

 

[newjerseykita]

One last thing. Why won't the price go down anytime soon? You guys have pretty much swayed me with the fact that the DxO is so close the rating is OBVIOUSLY BIASED, as well as the whole Moving Targets bizness. At the university i attend currently, i was hired for sports because of my gear and Sportfolio©. i'm just wondering again, why wouldn't it go down in price? Is it because they have assholes like me who will still buy at the CRAYCEE price that the've set? Thanks "Northstar, mdm04, k-amps, rafelsynths, and distant.star thanks for the warming words! You guys are awesome! That's for being here!

 

[elflord]

One last thing. Why won't the price go down anytime soon? You guys have pretty much swayed me with the fact that the DxO is so close the rating is OBVIOUSLY BIASED,

The rating as I understand it is an aggregate of three different use case scores. One of those scores is based on dynamic range at low ISO. This is very important to some people (e.g. landscape photographers which is why you see the poor review on fredmiranda) but much less to others (e.g. event photographers). The D800 smokes the 5DIII here, but otherwise it's pretty close. Depending on how you use the camera, this could be very important (e.g. if your photography consists of high contrast scenes taken at ISO100), or insignificant (e.g. if you are usually shooting at ISO 400 or more)

The problem isn't so much that DxO is "biased", it is that you can't sum things up with just one number. You always need to dig a little deeper. When you see a statement to the effect of camera X has a higher foo score than camera Y, you really need to look behind the number and ask what it means.

 

[photophreek]

I'm sure you have read the countless threads on FM about 1D owners having inexplicable problems with the AF system on the 5D III. It seems these same people can't, won't or just think they are above reading manuals because they are 1D owners. You have an advantage with your 7D as it will be a seamless transition adapting to the 5D III. You mentioned the sharpness and quality of Canon glass. A wise photographer said to me..."find the best glass for the job and buy the camera that works with the lenses you need". In this case, you've decided Canon has the best glass.

Why the price for the camera won't go down anytime soon is a simple law of the marketplace and economics. There is limited supply of the product and a huge demand resulting in a higher price. When demand for the product goes down and/or inventory of the product goes up, the price will go down.

Funny you are grousing about $500. If you decide on the Nikon product, you will take more than a $500 hit selling your Canon gear. So, go out already and buy the 5D III and forget about stupid charts and reviews and hone your craft.

 

[newjerseykita]

Photophreek, i get it, i'm a bitch.. Hahaha

But in all honesty, it all makes sense. I'll most likely post back once i have it, which will be in about a week and a half. Waiting to get home from college to buy it through a wholesale warehouse near me. Get it for market price! CHICKA CHICKA YEAH YEAH.

Mission Successful: We can all go home boys!

TOP GUN ANTHEM

 

[Northstar]

My prediction, 5d3 at 3k by year end....it is losing the sales game to d800...just look at amazon sales numbers rank...canon will have to lower price or risk serious market share loss to darth Nikon....count on it.

 

[Northstar]

By the way...so cool to see a 19 yo that quotes/posts a top gun link....one of the great movies of all time