All is Quiet, but the Good Stuff is Coming

[dak723]

This dual card slot argument really is rediculous. There seem to be so many prepositions to it I am amazed that nobody has seen it for what it, at its core, really is, a marketing device.

If it were a marketing device, it would be on the cheaper cameras, not the pro models.

It is quite amazing that - in order to argue a particular point of view (on both sides of the argument, of course) - even smart people can turn unbelievably dumb. One purpose of dual card slots is protection against card failure. Simple as that.

 

[K]

No one said it was a scandal or a conspiracy.

I absolutely agree that dual card slot may not be for every camera. For a very tiny DSLR, there may be no room. Or at a certain price point, it actually does become about manufacturing costs.

However, for a freaking $2,000 full frame body, to not include it is total BS. Again, $2,000 dollars. I don't care if you are a Rebel owner or a 1DX2 owner with radically different perspectives on budget, for $2,000 on a FF body, in the year 2017, there ought to be a 2nd card slot.

And I can make that statement without someone arguing by giving Canon the benefit of the doubt on the economics angle, because I have the real world example that Nikon puts this in 2 FF camera bodies for the same money or less (more often less).

I'm not saying they can't "afford" to do so, I'm saying "business is business:" they do because they can, and that's just business. I agree that the extra size and $50 (or whatever) needed to add a second slot would be great for a 6D2 -- no argument there. In the end, they get to put a product on the market, and I get to decide whether to buy it, and that's all there is to that story.

We agree for the most part. You see it as business (which I agree also), difference is I take it a step further and think they are D-bags for doing that to their customers at that price point.

For the record, I don't think the 6D is crap. It's a great camera. But it has specs fitting of last decade...which makes it a poor value in my opinion. I don't recommend it to anyone buying their first FF.

I saw others regurgitating the 'it's a best seller' nonsense. Again and again and again, more Canon users, market leader , only budget FF option...stands to reason it would sell great. It's a best seller that isn't the full value it ought to be.

 

[Loswr]

One purpose of dual card slots is protection against card failure. Simple as that.

No one is arguing that point.

The original 1D and 1Ds had only a single card slot. Starting with the MkII 1-series cameras, they've had two. In 2012, Canon brought the feature to the 5-series, which differentiated the 5DIII from the 6D. From that perspective, it's a marketing device.

That being true, does it mean a camera with a single card slot is 'crippled' or 'crap'? Well, as PBD points out, by the logic of 'K', the Hasselblad is H5D is crippled crap because it has only one card slot. I mean, for a $30,000 camera you'd think they could have put in a second slot, after all Nikon has them in $1500 cameras. They're just trying to screw over their customers. But 'K' should be happy that Hasselblad has seen the light, and now offers dual card slots on the H6D... and even in their low-end X1D cameras costing only $9000. So maybe there's hope for the 6DII, after all...

 

[Mikehit]

I saw others regurgitating the 'it's a best seller' nonsense. Again and again and again, more Canon users, market leader , only budget FF option...stands to reason it would sell great. It's a best seller that isn't the full value it ought to be.

No-one is doubting that. What we disputed was your claim that dual slots is 'essential'. The sales figures show that for many, many people dual card slots are not 'essential' (if it was 'essential' they would not have bought the camera in the numbers they did - marketing facts). Nice to have, yes. Useful? Probably. Essential? Definitely not.
It is when you use words like 'essential' (meaning 'I want it') that your other claims lose credibility.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

One purpose of dual card slots is protection against card failure.

Yeah, thanks for that insight.

Given that the 6D isn't aimed at pros, and given that cards are really reliable these days anyway, dual card slots in the 6D isn't a paid shoot-saving necessity - it's easy to argue the logic of a single card slot in the 6D, regardless of how supposedly easily or cheaply Canon could choose to go another way.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

I saw others regurgitating the 'it's a best seller' nonsense. Again and again and again

It's regurgitated again and again and again because either you seem incapable of understanding the significance of the point, or you're wilfully ignoring it - which is precisely what trolls do.

more Canon users, market leader, only budget FF option...stands to reason it would sell great.

So in other words - again - Canon is clearly making the right decisions for its bottom line.

It's a best seller that isn't the full value it ought to be.

In your opinion.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

It is when you use words like 'essential' (meaning 'I want it') that your other claims lose credibility.

And "I want it" isn't the same as "I need it": personally I've never had a single card fail for me in the 12 years since I bought my first DSLR, and I bet that's true of many (most?) of us.

Including K, probably...

 

[Orangutan]

difference is I take it a step further and think they are D-bags for doing that to their customers at that price point.

Oh, I thought being a d-bag was normal for big a corporation...and I'm only partially joking. With our current hyper-competitive corporate culture, large corporations always walk that line. You could pick any deficient feature of any manufacturer and make the same comment: Sony regarding quality assurance and customer service, Nikon for too-rapid refresh cycle and lens selection, other brands for their reasons. I don't expect every vendor to match feature-for-feature with the competition in its market segment, though it would be nice if they did; and I see no reason to single-out dual card slots for special attention because they are not essential to everyone.

It's a best seller that isn't the full value it ought to be.

I guess that's another point on which we disagree: I don't believe any particular product "ought" to be anything particular. It is what it is, and I can buy it or not.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

I don't believe any particular product "ought" to be anything particular. It is what it is, and I can buy it or not.

To suggest that a given item ought to be a certain way because I say so implies an inflated sense of self-entitlement on the part of the person declaring how things "should" be...

 

[ahsanford]

I don't believe any particular product "ought" to be anything particular. It is what it is, and I can buy it or not.

To suggest that a given item ought to be a certain way because I say so implies an inflated sense of self-entitlement on the part of the person declaring how things "should" be...

It's not entitlement, it's a 'cherry-pick all the best things I like into one camera' dreamland that is never going to happen.

Just imagine the flipped scenario in which K actually gets a D750. He/she gets so much of what they want -- two cards, great sensor, lots of AF points, etc.

...and loses DPAF, the EF portfolio, Canon's great color, reliability, resale value, etc. :

- A

 

[Keith_Reeder]

It's not entitlement, it's a 'cherry-pick all the best things I like into one camera' dreamland that is never going to happen.

It's that too - but the idea that he considers himself to be the self-appointed arbiter of worth/value/sufficiency/adequacy/acceptability, in a camera (and he clearly does), is much more besides.

 

[BillB]

It's not entitlement, it's a 'cherry-pick all the best things I like into one camera' dreamland that is never going to happen.

It's that too - but the idea that he considers himself to be the self-appointed arbiter of worth/value/sufficiency/adequacy/acceptability, in a camera (and he clearly does), is much more besides.

Could be anticipatory ranting too--triggered by the chance that the 6DII might be announced with one card slot, and by Nikon's blowout sale of the D750 at $1500. There also seems to be a conviction that exagerration, repetition and ridicule together are an effective strategy for persuasion.

 

[K]

I'm going to try to fit in more around here, be like the guys.

What I really want is a full frame Rebel for $2,500.

Canon will make me happy either way.

 

[K]

...and loses DPAF, the EF portfolio, Canon's great color, reliability, resale value, etc. :

- A

DPAF, don't need. It's nice to have. I have a dedicated Canon video camera (with DUAL SD slots!). DSLR's for me are for stills.

L glass, color, reliability and resale all overrated. Canon has edge on some of these, but nothing game changing in the slightest.

All of the above does not make up for an 11pt system vs 51pt. Nor does it make up for 4.5 fps vs 6. Nor does it make up for 24mp with 2 more stops of DR. Or the dual card slots.

We still don't know if Canon is going to implement the 45pt system. Might give us 19pt for all we know.

It's ok. So Nikon has an edge in the entry FF offerings. It's not the end of the world. I'm not trolling anyone here - but the brand loyalty and fanaticism some show is pretty extreme. They have no room for reason.

 

[Orangutan]

but the brand loyalty and fanaticism some show is pretty extreme. They have no room for reason.

I appreciate your viewpoints, but I just don't see that fanaticism. I see practicality: everyone here can compare specs, but we all know that there's nothing we can do to convince Canon (or any other manufacturer) to make exactly the thing we want. So when someone says "wow, I can't believe model Y doesn't have this feature!" we shrug and go back to shooting. The only time comparing specs and ecosystems is important is when it's time to buy. That's when we have influence, and at no other time (unless Canon sends us a survey or we choose to write a letter to Canon corporate headquarters). It's unlikely that vendors pay much attention to forums like CR.

Regards,

O

 

[Loswr]

but the brand loyalty and fanaticism some show is pretty extreme. They have no room for reason.

I appreciate your viewpoints, but I just don't see that fanaticism. I see practicality: everyone here can compare specs, but we all know that there's nothing we can do to convince Canon (or any other manufacturer) to make exactly the thing we want. So when someone says "wow, I can't believe model Y doesn't have this feature!" we shrug and go back to shooting. The only time comparing specs and ecosystems is important is when it's time to buy. That's when we have influence, and at no other time (unless Canon sends us a survey or we choose to write a letter to Canon corporate headquarters). It's unlikely that vendors pay much attention to forums like CR.

Importantly, when it comes time to buy, the 6D remains a very popular choice...and the 6DII will be, as well.

Overall, Nikon and Sony have generally better specs in many areas. In aggregate, buyers consistently choose Canon. But people will continue to believe that the spec sheet is what matters most, and claim that Canon is doomed becuase Models S and N have this or that feature and that Model C is 'crippled' by the lack thereof. Well, that's what 'no room for reason' looks like, in practice.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

DPAF, don't need. It's nice to have.

A bit like dual card slots, then...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

I just don't see that fanaticism. I see practicality

Yep, this - no more, no less.

Everyone does his own cost/benefit analysis before buying a camera, and it's clear enough that for many, this analysis comes out solidly in favour of the 6D.

That Canon has decided to "skimp" by withholding a card slot is self-evidently not a bad decision - not for the umpteen users who bought a 6D in the knowledge that it's deficient in the card slot department to the tune of one; and not for Canon.

So it really is hard to see what the problem is...

 

[Loswr]

So it really is hard to see what the problem is...

Not really. But, the problem is neither with the 6D nor with Canon...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Touché!