Am I the only one excited about the new 7D mk2?

[Maiaibing]

Yes, indeed, however, it is still untrue to discount the huge importance of sensor tech for your end result and shooting abilities.

And yet I can and do - and other people (lots of 'em) positively revel in the IQ of my pictures.

This must be very high on the list of the most irrelevant arguments made this year at CR...

Your original statement is plain and simply untrue no matter how often you repeat it. Sensor tech is hugely important for your end result and shooting abilities as it sets absolute limits to what results you can achieve with your camera and what digital material you have to work with.

This is why any decent digital camera review will discuss - in depth - the quality of the sensor, noise patterns, iso characteristics, dynamic range etc.

In fact its so plainly obvious and factual that your intransigence does not merit any further discussion.

 

[jasonsim]

Douglaurent:

You ever hear about Canon's cinema line? The 1D C has 4K video. Instead of buying 3 7D II's and 4 Panasonics, get one 1D C and the lenses to go with it!

If I was doing 4K video that was serious, I wouldn't want it on a APS-C or micro 4-3rds sized sensor.

For all people looking at video, it's a huge disappointment, because even if you don't need 4K now, you might need it in the coming 4 years. definitely you don't need mushy unsharp video now. in times with very fast developments in technology canon honestly thinks videographers want to work with the same video quality until the year 2018 that they already gave us in 2008? that's weird, especially as at photokina 2 years ago they already did show what is possible in terms of dslr video. missing focus peaking etc clearly is a sign that their marketing departments dictate the technology, by falsely thinking giving us those features would cannibalize their expensive cinema line. i personally would have bought 3x 7D2 if it was 4K as addition to my 1DC, now i have 3x GH4. bad luck canon, they should fire all of their japanese decision makers. even for photo people it's a huge disappointment having no wifi, no swivel screen, no high megapixels etc. as an upgrade 5 years after the first 7D you can say that it won't hurt to simply keep the old model.

 

[Loswr]

They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

No, Canon does not throttle AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Yes, when you put the 1.4x TC behind your 600/4, AF slows down. But that's not because the combo is f/5.6, it's because of the TC. By design (firmware), a 1.4x TC drops AF speed by 50%, and a 2x TC drops it by 75%. If you put the 1.4x behind the 200mm f/2, you'll have a 280mm f/2.8 lens that activates all 61 AF points including the 5 dual-cross points on the 5DIII/1D X...and still focuses 50% slower.

The 'hunting' you describe also appears to not be specific to the max aperture or the AF points, but rather to lens or TC combo. For example, the 100-400L @ 400/5.6 hunts with a busy background, whereas the 400/5.6L locks on much more effectively in that scenario.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I feel as if (and this only my opinion which is worthless) the ones doing the crying are not the people who the 7DII is aimed for.

There is a lot of truth to that.

You have landscapers moaning about only 20Mpix and the usual DR nonsense.

That said, not everyone can afford two bodies and some who care about the things the 7D2 excels at surely would have loved to have it had an exmor-type sensor and excelled at all types of landscapes as well (and even for wildlife, there are times when more DR helps, due to say dappled lighting or heck even times when things change super fast and either you or the camera accidentally underexposes a low ISO shot, with exmor that doesn't matter half as much). And the DR stuff isn't nonsense. Not everyone will care so much, but people who do care, do have a legit reason to care.

But that also said, it is true the sensor is good enough to get by with for an action/reach/speed/AF oriented wildlife type camera.

Although it does send a bad a message as to if Canon ever plans on improve their sensors at low ISO.

Then you have videographers banging on about the lack of 4K.

Again, it is true that Canon has treated the 5 series the primary video quality advancement line and for the primarily stills wildlife guys it doesn't matter.

That said, some wildlife guys DO like to take videos and 4k surely makes wildlife type stuff look better.
Plus they left out zoomed modes, precisely the modes that would especially have made sense on a wildlife camera. And they left out focusing aids and zebras. And they even left out touch screen for easy control of target subject or changing when using DPAF. And the tilt screen which also helps for macro wildlife and even for things like team sports circle celebrations, etc.

And it also means they have more room to cripple the 5D4 video and there is a lot of talk now that even the 5D4 video will be a total disappointment. So of the complaining is just fears over the 5D4 and where Canon is headed and how much more can they keep holding back and crippling this or that.

And it's not only that they left 4k out of the 7D2, they didn't even give it a nce, natural, detailed 1080p, but the same old waxy look even though it has so much digic power.

Meanwhile sports / wildlife photographers are quietly pre-ordering. If I was a sports photographer I'd be pretty excited to have the 7D II either as a back up or main camera. I have a feeling once some solid reviews come around and people get to feel how easy the camera is to work with (loved my 7D ergonomics) things will calm down.

That is true too and as I said above, the 10fps, with that AF and that reach should make it, even despite the sensor, a stills wildlife or even sports photographers dream. It should be a total beast and that whole crowd will likely be over the moon and with good reason.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

For all people looking at video, it's a huge disappointment, because even if you don't need 4K now, you might need it in the coming 4 years.

I personally would have bought 3x 7D2 if it was 4K as addition to my 1DC, now i have 3x GH4.

I've stopped looking to Canon to solve my video requirements. Why worry? The Panasonic GH4 is just awesome. I'll probably get another one. The Panasonic glass is compact and classy. With the new Metabones MFT Speedbooster my Canon glass is an option for video usage too. Cool!

The worry is that it is inefficient. Now you need to drag a GH4 along with your 7D2 and don't forget the GH4+adapter isn't free. Or you drag along an A7S for video. So it's very inefficient in weight and bulk and cost. And then you need all different types of batteries and chargers and cards and so on.

Granted, at least there are options now and that is what counts even more and pretty soon I think it finally will start to burn Canon more and more.

I'd bet some people will run out of money after the GH4+adapter or A7S or A7S+Shogun and then not have money left to buy more Canon stuff. Not sure how that helps Canon. But obviously their marketing would rather other companies cannibalize their sales than dare internally threaten their 1DC or Cxx in any way (never mind that the Sony FS7 appears to blow that stuff away for less cost now).

And moreso, it makes you wonder just how badly they will punt on the 5D4 video now. I wouldn't be surprised if a 5D3 with ML ends up better for video than a 5D4! They need to give it basics like peaking,zebras,zoomed focus box,non-waxy 1080p, non-waxy 4k or nobody will buy it for video. And some will even skip it entirely and just keep what they have now to shoot and get some sony rig for video.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I'm also a little bummed the AF system is not comparable to the 61pt system in terms of point sensitivity. It seems most of the points are only f/5.6 sensitive, which means there won't be any AF performance bonus at f/4 or f/2.8 (outside of the central point(s), at least.) I think the AF system will perform well, but for those who have f/4 or f/2.8 prime teles, I honestly don't think it will perform as well as the 61pt system. The 1D X also provides increased AF drive power, so it will still focus faster (not even the 5D III focuses as fast as the 1D X.)

Hmm that is a bit unfortunate to hear about the points. Maybe having them all cross more than makes up for it?
I hope it's not another thing where on paper the AF sounds good (i.e. 7D) but in practice the AF sensor was clearly more like xxD quality than 1 series quality. But hmm are you reading and interpreting the meaning of that properly....

AF is THE thing that this has to sell itself on. Without the video or exmor sensor it's all about the reach (which it has), speed (10fps it has) and AF (which I hope it has).

I'm still betting that the AF will be great. I think Canon has to be smart enough to realize that if the reports come in after the first couple months that the AF doesn't work better than the 7D in practice and isn't at least as good in the field as the 5D3 that the sales will tank. If the AF proves excellent, as I still think it will, despite the lost video sales and maybe a few for those wanting it to have been as tops for all landscapes types as for action, I think it may sell very well. There is probably a lot of demand for a small, high reach, fast body with top AF. A real lot I bet. So it may be a hit.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I feel as if (and this only my opinion which is worthless) the ones doing the crying are not the people who the 7DII is aimed for.

....
Meanwhile sports / wildlife photographers are quietly pre-ordering. If I was a sports photographer I'd be pretty excited to have the 7D II either as a back up or main camera. I have a feeling once some solid reviews come around and people get to feel how easy the camera is to work with (loved my 7D ergonomics) things will calm down.

I thought the 7D was an amazing camera but on paper when it was compared to say a 60D there didn't seem to be all that much different. Once you actually use the 7D you start to realize that it's a beast and is built to last. The IQ was it's Achilles heel but hopefully that issue will be addressed to a satisfactory level and what we'll get is a highly refined machine!

Not all the wildlife photographers are pre-ordering.
I've been using a 7D since October of 2009 for wildlife and I've been hoping for a sensor update from Canon for literally years. At the moment there are many opinions being expressed about the high ISO performance - some say its great, others that its not much better than the 70D, so I'll wait. The high ISO performance is the most important thing that was lacking with the 7D (followed closely by AF performance).
If its true that the ISO performance isn't much better than the 70D, I won't be buying a 7Dii at all. It really doesn't matter how well focused your photos are if they're still so noisy at 1600 ISO that you have to apply NR to the point you lose that sharpness.

Some early peaks at raws hint tht it might look better than the 7D at high ISO. It seems like it will have a solid 1/2 stop more DR and 1/2 stop better SNR plus something about the character of the high iso 'grain' is tentatively appearing to be nicer, maybe giving you another 1/3 stop effective feel better.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Canon data is fine at higher ISO, where banding is minimized. It's particularly at the lower ISOs, up through 400, where the differences become clear. I do quite fine with bird and wildlife photography using my Canon equipment. I can still do fine for landscapes...it's just more work, having to be more meticulous when shooting and processing to clean up banding and do what's possible to reduce color and random noise to make shadows more usable. Those are just things I'd prefer not to have to do.

It seems like the 7D2 has removed all to nearly all low ISO banding though. (the basic read noise is still the same as ever though)

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I am a videographer and excited for the 7D. After proper reviews I'll probably buy one.

It's the first real upgrade for the Canon video shooter below the 5D level. Finally a s35 canon without aliasing and moire for 1800$. Lovely.

I own a GH4, it only exceeds the 5D III is resolution, the 7D mk II is identical to the 5D iii video, which means much better colours than the GH4, much better lowlight performance, better dynamic range and larger sensor aesthetic. I only use the gh4 for wide detailed shots, for everything else I absolutely hate that broadcast-video like image. If it produced an ultimately better image than the 5D, I would have used it for everything, no reason no to, it just doesn't. It's wonderful for details though.

Resolution is not the only aspect of image quality. Easy to forget it seems.

A7S video, granted not s35 format, will do way better than 7D2 for image quality, detail, SNR, DR, etc. (and you even have a 4k option with a Shogun).

Don't forget the 7D2 does have 2.56x smaller sensor than the 5D3 so I'm not so sure it will have identical SNR (Although it shoul dbe much better than the 7D). I'm pretty dubious it would look better than GH4 4k downscaled to 1080p.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

if Canon has taken care of the banding, I'm getting one.

Unless the pre-production camera is a trick, they have taken care of the banding. I examined an ISO100 RAW file and the masked area showed no banding.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Despite all the noise about it, in reality the much-vaunted DR advantage is only of actual value in edge cases where a photographer has failed to expose his image properly and hasn't got the conversion/post processing skills to address the mistake.

And there you go again. I love it how the fanboy gang gets all huffy and goes on about how the DR crowd has to keep bringing up DR, we get it, nbody denies Canon is behind in DR or that it can sometimes make a difference, but now sooner do you guys finish saying that after having been backed into a corner you are back to the usual BS and mocking.

Sure more DR can help when you miss the exposure (and that can be a very handy thing, it's not something to put down), but you darn well know the main complaint is for scenes with high DR, and where you have exposed perfectly and still don't have enough DR.

And it can not all be fixed with advanced PP. And what you can patch up takes a lot of time, do you want to waste time on utterly boring stuff like that?

In short, for the most part, low ISO DR is a get-out-of-jail-free card for photographers who make mistakes with their cameras and don't know what to do about them.

And more utter nonsense.


Anyway for what it is the sensor is probably generally fine for the 7D2 since the AF/speed/reach are the most major key points and it appears to excel there.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I'm also a little bummed the AF system is not comparable to the 61pt system in terms of point sensitivity. It seems most of the points are only f/5.6 sensitive, which means there won't be any AF performance bonus at f/4 or f/2.8 (outside of the central point(s), at least.) I think the AF system will perform well, but for those who have f/4 or f/2.8 prime teles, I honestly don't think it will perform as well as the 61pt system. The 1D X also provides increased AF drive power, so it will still focus faster (not even the 5D III focuses as fast as the 1D X.)

Hi,
Hmm... If I understand Canon AF technology correctly, all 65 points of 7D2 AF points are cross-type when using lens as narrow as f5.6 means that's it'll be cross type if you use a lens faster than or equal to f5.6. The center point will be dual cross points when use with lens faster or equal to f2.8.

If you compare the 61 points AF use by 1Dx and 5D3, only 41 points out of 61 points are cross-type when use with lens faster than or equal to f5.6. Of course, it had 5 dual cross points at the center when use with lens faster or equal to f2.8 which is better than 7D2.

Generally, all Canon lens (except some lens) without TC will enjoy the AF performance bonus of the cross-type for all the 65 AF points which is an improvement over the 61 points AF module, right??

Have a nice day.

They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

All Canon TC throttle AF speed no matter the AF point or body used. A Canon 1.4c TX automatically shuts down AF speed by 50%.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Douglaurent:

You ever hear about Canon's cinema line? The 1D C has 4K video. Instead of buying 3 7D II's and 4 Panasonics, get one 1D C and the lenses to go with it!

Or instead of 10k on a 1DC why not 8k on a Sony FS7?
And if you don't have quite that money, as many don't, what about SOny A7S for $2500? (plus a Shogun for 2000 if you want 4k). For $2500 you get better 1080p than the 1DC gives and for $4500 you get better 4k plus an external screen with all the focusing and exposure aids and stuff that Canon left out of the 1DC. (ok, add another $300-400 for the lens adapter)

If I was doing 4K video that was serious, I wouldn't want it on a APS-C or micro 4-3rds sized sensor.

Almost all Hollywood stuff is smaller than FF. Movie cameras ran the film through in a different direction than stills cams did. So when they run 35mm film, the images are actually pretty close to APS-C, not FF.

That said the A7S is FF ;D. And the 1DC's best quality 1080p mode is APS-C .

Anyway this is getting ot be a bit off topic here.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

No, Canon does not throttle AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Yes, when you put the 1.4x TC behind your 600/4, AF slows down. But that's not because the combo is f/5.6, it's because of the TC. By design (firmware), a 1.4x TC drops AF speed by 50%, and a 2x TC drops it by 75%. If you put the 1.4x behind the 200mm f/2, you'll have a 280mm f/2.8 lens that activates all 61 AF points including the 5 dual-cross points on the 5DIII/1D X...and still focuses 50% slower.

The 'hunting' you describe also appears to not be specific to the max aperture or the AF points, but rather to lens or TC combo. For example, the 100-400L @ 400/5.6 hunts with a busy background, whereas the 400/5.6L locks on much more effectively in that scenario.

Hmm, curious. When I rent the 300 f/2.8 II, and use the 1.4x TC, it still seems to focus extremely fast. Faster than the 600/4 with the same TC.

Maybe it's just the design of the 100-400, but that lens doesn't focus fast, period, as far as I can tell. I haven't used the 400/5.6 with the 61pt system, so I can't speak to it.

But don't you notice the TC +300 getting slower AF than the bare 300?

(maybe the super tele II plus TC III changed things a bit, I thought they were said to still largely slow things down about as much although greatly improve AF precision)

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Canon data is fine at higher ISO, where banding is minimized. It's particularly at the lower ISOs, up through 400, where the differences become clear. I do quite fine with bird and wildlife photography using my Canon equipment. I can still do fine for landscapes...it's just more work, having to be more meticulous when shooting and processing to clean up banding and do what's possible to reduce color and random noise to make shadows more usable. Those are just things I'd prefer not to have to do.

It seems like the 7D2 has removed all to nearly all low ISO banding though. (the basic read noise is still the same as ever though)

That's what I've heard. I still want to see dark frames myself. If so, that is awesome, even if it doesn't mean an increase in DR.

DOwnload RAWs at IR and then use Iris to look at the masked areas.

 

[Loswr]

They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

No, Canon does not throttle AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Yes, when you put the 1.4x TC behind your 600/4, AF slows down. But that's not because the combo is f/5.6, it's because of the TC. By design (firmware), a 1.4x TC drops AF speed by 50%, and a 2x TC drops it by 75%. If you put the 1.4x behind the 200mm f/2, you'll have a 280mm f/2.8 lens that activates all 61 AF points including the 5 dual-cross points on the 5DIII/1D X...and still focuses 50% slower.

The 'hunting' you describe also appears to not be specific to the max aperture or the AF points, but rather to lens or TC combo. For example, the 100-400L @ 400/5.6 hunts with a busy background, whereas the 400/5.6L locks on much more effectively in that scenario.

Hmm, curious. When I rent the 300 f/2.8 II, and use the 1.4x TC, it still seems to focus extremely fast. Faster than the 600/4 with the same TC.

Maybe it's just the design of the 100-400, but that lens doesn't focus fast, period, as far as I can tell. I haven't used the 400/5.6 with the 61pt system, so I can't speak to it.

The 300/2.8 II is arguably Canon's fastest-focusing lens. The focusing group in the 600/4 II is ~25% more massive than that in the 300/2.8 II. The bare 300 II focuses faster than the bare 600 II, so the former will be faster with the same TC. I suspect the 300/2.8 II is just so fast to begin with that you don't notice the AF speed reduction as much.

Here's the relevant bit from Canon:

[quote author=Canon DLC]As with previous EF Extenders, usage of Series III EF Extenders lowers AF drive speed to improve AF performance. When Extender EF 1.4X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 50%. When Extender EF 2X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 75%. This may seem like a drawback, but in reality subject tracking performance remains quite high when Series III Extenders are used with IS II lenses. This is due to improvements in AF precision made possible by the new microcomputer in the extenders.[/quote]

The 100-400L focuses noticeably slower than the 400/5.6, as well, even though both are 400mm f/5.6.

 

[msm]

They are all cross type, however Canon throttles AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Even on the 61pt system, even when using only the center points, AF speed slows when I slap on a 1.4x TC onto my 600/4, vs. just using the 600/4. Additionally, at f/5.6, the chances of "hunting" increase. Canon's AF system caters towards looking for a closer subject first when the scene is out of focus by more than a certain (unspecified) amount. So, if I need to photograph a bird in flight, it's FAR better to use an f/4 lens, which is likely to lock on directly immediately, than f/5.6, which is going to hunt forward first if I'm not already close to focus on the bird.

Maybe the 65pt system changes that, but it looks like the same general firmware as the 5D III and 1D X, so I suspect it'll behave the same.

No, Canon does not throttle AF speed at f/5.6 relative to f/4 or f/2.8. Yes, when you put the 1.4x TC behind your 600/4, AF slows down. But that's not because the combo is f/5.6, it's because of the TC. By design (firmware), a 1.4x TC drops AF speed by 50%, and a 2x TC drops it by 75%. If you put the 1.4x behind the 200mm f/2, you'll have a 280mm f/2.8 lens that activates all 61 AF points including the 5 dual-cross points on the 5DIII/1D X...and still focuses 50% slower.

The 'hunting' you describe also appears to not be specific to the max aperture or the AF points, but rather to lens or TC combo. For example, the 100-400L @ 400/5.6 hunts with a busy background, whereas the 400/5.6L locks on much more effectively in that scenario.

Hmm, curious. When I rent the 300 f/2.8 II, and use the 1.4x TC, it still seems to focus extremely fast. Faster than the 600/4 with the same TC.

Maybe it's just the design of the 100-400, but that lens doesn't focus fast, period, as far as I can tell. I haven't used the 400/5.6 with the 61pt system, so I can't speak to it.

The 300/2.8 II is arguably Canon's fastest-focusing lens. The focusing group in the 600/4 II is ~25% more massive than that in the 300/2.8 II. The bare 300 II focuses faster than the bare 600 II, so the former will be faster with the same TC. I suspect the 300/2.8 II is just so fast to begin with that you don't notice the AF speed reduction as much.

Here's the relevant bit from Canon:

[quote author=Canon DLC]As with previous EF Extenders, usage of Series III EF Extenders lowers AF drive speed to improve AF performance. When Extender EF 1.4X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 50%. When Extender EF 2X III is used, AF drive speed is reduced by 75%. This may seem like a drawback, but in reality subject tracking performance remains quite high when Series III Extenders are used with IS II lenses. This is due to improvements in AF precision made possible by the new microcomputer in the extenders.

The 100-400L focuses noticeably slower than the 400/5.6, as well, even though both are 400mm f/5.6.
[/quote]

Actually the 70-200 IS II focuses faster than the 300 IS II. And I can not notice any focusing slowdown on the 300 IS II even with 2x converter. The 70-200 however is slooooow with the 2x. This is my experience with both 5DIII and 1DX, the 1DX is slightly faster with both lenses.

 

[monkey44]

I'm probably the only one that thinks this -- but all this argument and complaints about what's "lacking' in the 7D2 appear to come from folks that want to somehow produce the ultimate best image in the world 'just once', like to win a contest or something -- and believe the 'missing item' is the only thing stopping them. It's not.

Because: Every Canon camera and nearly every other brand creates some of the finest images I've ever seen after printing, beginning with the D30 and forward, and particularly since the 30D, and even with a 28/135 low level kit lens. And the technology continuously improves as does the cost -- but the end product for nearly everyone that owns any level from 30D to the 5D, 7D and 1D series will all produce an image that satisfies almost every one that loves photography - from the newest amateur to the best pros in the field.

So, what's all this fuss about incremental increases in IQ that we can only see if we blow it up twice as large as the biggest poster we can print and measure it in microns ... and most of those measurements make almost no difference in most photographs we see or share ... excluding the very high-end pros and applications.

So, why does every one complain about such small discrepancies between the 7D2 and what one had "hoped to see' in this new camera ... most of the differences must use three place decimal points of a percent to measure it.

So, buy it if you like it, or keep the one you have -- but the most important thing is "go out and shoot the best possible images with what you own", and use both hands and feed those amazing images into your heart, share them with family and friends, or sell them if its a business -- and relax.

The 7D2 is a great camera, and I'm betting a lot of guys and gals will use it to create some really fine and challenging images too. But don't sweat what's not there, just accept what is there, and use it to continue that on-going hunt for that one image that sets your soul on fire ... and it doesn't matter which camera you use to capture it either, or it's technical merits. When you capture that image, you'll know it, and it won't matter whether it's a thousandth of a degree off center, or a millionth of a shade off color ...

Yeah, I'm really excited about the 7D2, and love what it brings to the table -- and am waiting impatiently until it hits my doorstop to go out and punch the shutter button. And, I don't care much what's 'missing' because I know without a doubt it will pop some fine images into my book regardless of its "perceived short-comings", and will plant a big smile on my face every time I shoot a keeper...

 

[can0nfan2379]

For what it is I think it will be a great camera. Personally I am still hoping for a true 1D4 successor with a 1.6x crop -- that is integrated grip, weather sealing, build, 1 Series focus drive / response and shorter viewfinder blackout but with a crop sensor for wildlife work in nasty weather. Not sure I'd trust the build of the 7D II to stand up to really adverse conditions.

Did you ever see the torture test that Digital Rev did on the original 7D? It was very tough so with even better sealing on the MKII, it should stand up to just about anything.
That does not give you the 1 body though and speaking of, why not a one body crop? Too low demand I would guess but I don't know. As far as my excitement, when I saw the button layout being like the 5d MKIII I was very interested.

Yeah I have seen that torture test though I'm still hesitant about subjecting my non-1 series bodies to anything serious. I owned the original 7D -- good camera, didn't really care for the pop-up flash. On both the 7D and the 5D3 I currently have, I always run a grip and I guess I'd prefer the integrated grip so that the whole thing is properly sealed rather than having this long battery terminal extension going up inside the camera.

 

[DRR]

I'm probably the only one that thinks this -- but all this argument and complaints about what's "lacking' in the 7D2 appear to come from folks that want to somehow produce the ultimate best image in the world 'just once', like to win a contest or something -- and believe the 'missing item' is the only thing stopping them. It's not.

Because: Every Canon camera and nearly every other brand creates some of the finest images I've ever seen after printing, beginning with the D30 and forward, and particularly since the 30D, and even with a 28/135 low level kit lens. And the technology continuously improves as does the cost -- but the end product for nearly everyone that owns any level from 30D to the 5D, 7D and 1D series will all produce an image that satisfies almost every one that loves photography - from the newest amateur to the best pros in the field.

So, what's all this fuss about incremental increases in IQ that we can only see if we blow it up twice as large as the biggest poster we can print and measure it in microns ... and most of those measurements make almost no difference in most photographs we see or share ... excluding the very high-end pros and applications.

So, why does every one complain about such small discrepancies between the 7D2 and what one had "hoped to see' in this new camera ... most of the differences must use three place decimal points of a percent to measure it.

So, buy it if you like it, or keep the one you have -- but the most important thing is "go out and shoot the best possible images with what you own", and use both hands and feed those amazing images into your heart, share them with family and friends, or sell them if its a business -- and relax.

The 7D2 is a great camera, and I'm betting a lot of guys and gals will use it to create some really fine and challenging images too. But don't sweat what's not there, just accept what is there, and use it to continue that on-going hunt for that one image that sets your soul on fire ... and it doesn't matter which camera you use to capture it either, or it's technical merits. When you capture that image, you'll know it, and it won't matter whether it's a thousandth of a degree off center, or a millionth of a shade off color ...

Yeah, I'm really excited about the 7D2, and love what it brings to the table -- and am waiting impatiently until it hits my doorstop to go out and punch the shutter button. And, I don't care much what's 'missing' because I know without a doubt it will pop some fine images into my book regardless of its "perceived short-comings", and will plant a big smile on my face every time I shoot a keeper...

Well put!!!