Analysis: Canon EOS M6 Mark II shutter shock performance

koenkooi

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Feb 25, 2015
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[..]understand that IS functionality has been disabled in the lens.[..]

Nitpick: With EF-M lenses you can't disable IS in the lens, there's no switch for that. You can only disable it through software using the menu in the camera.
So you have to take the cameras word for it, especially with wide lenses that have a silent IS motor.
 
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AlanF

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I use my gear for a variety of purposes, and for many of them the vibrations reported by Canon News are too small to be noticeable. But, I do push my gear to the limits and these problems are killers, like when you are photographing fine details or heavy cropping. Those railing against the good work done by Canon News are like those who say that they managed perfectly well with 16 Mpx and that 20 Mpx are more than enough for anyone.
 

canonnews

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I am keen to understand how is this shutter shock issue did not affect prime lenses that were tested and affected zoom lenses with IS capabilities exclusively.
understand that IS functionality has been disabled in the lens. but are we confident that even when disabled it has not affected focusing in some ways? a bug?

IS enabled or disabled made no difference.

or is there an issue with focusing implementation specific to mechanical shutter?
I am not buying that shutter shock can selectively affect some lenses and not others if the overall size and weight of these lenses is in the same ball park..especially on tripod. not to that degree that was demonstrated with charts.

It could be the IS units themselves. perhaps more susceptible to the shutter vibrations. the masses as well aren't all the same and it is focal length dependant. that results show that. even with the same lens, the results vary depending on focal length.

This seems to be the case with some of Canon's cheaper STM units (perhaps eureka moment here)
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=11407
They discovered or mentioned that with the EF-S 10-18mm STM lens the IS unit has a different "lock":

"When the IS is Off, image stabilization optics are locked in place with a spring suspension mechanism rather than a center lock mechanism. "

this would make it susceptible to the small vibrations of the shutter. Then perhaps with the IS unit being ON it would make little difference because it can't react that fast to the small vibrations of the shutter (theory).

This would also explain why the EF-M 32mm did not exhibit as much of a problem.

the focusing precision with mechanical shutter is affected on lenses with IS function. correct.
I suggest repeating tests with the same camera mounted on extremely solid tripod and solid flooring. I would suggest that results won't be any different regardless. even if bolted permanently to a brick wall.

the tests were repeated and performed three different ways, different orientations of the camera to tripod head, with and without 10 second timer.

if it was a focusing precision issue or even a tripod issue than the EF-M 32mm would have shown dramatically different results, as well as the EF-M 55-200mm at 55m.

Also, the test was done in such a way to also try to mimic handholding to a certain degree by putting the camera in portrait mode. but in reality, it didn't make much difference.

------------
Takeway - I guess you could argue that it's not "shutter shock" but it's obvious that it's IQ loss derived by the fact that it does have shutter shock paired with the EF-M lenses that most likely have spring based lock mechanisms. In reality it really doesn't matter - the shutter is causing the problem.

I seem to recall this being a similar problem with other IS's on cameras that did have shutter shock years back, but that information is pretty scant to find these days.

I'm still pretty confident to call it like it is, even though I think semantically you can argue the term. The M6 Mark II is shipped with these zooms, and exhibits the problems when using the mechanical shutter and these zooms.
 

SecureGSM

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Feb 26, 2017
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Nitpick: With EF-M lenses you can't disable IS in the lens, there's no switch for that. You can only disable it through software using the menu in the camera.
So you have to take the cameras word for it, especially with wide lenses that have a silent IS motor.
Very good observation. Thank you. So..

I suggest having the test done with a good EF zoom: without IS. Say EF 24-70/2.8 IIL
And then with a reasonably sized prime with IS.
say, EF 100/2.8 Macro L. With IS on and off.

somehow I feel that 24-70/2.8 will be relatively unaffected.
 

SecureGSM

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IS enabled or disabled made no difference.



It could be the IS units themselves. perhaps more susceptible to the shutter vibrations. the masses as well aren't all the same and it is focal length dependant. that results show that. even with the same lens, the results vary depending on focal length.

This seems to be the case with some of Canon's cheaper STM units (perhaps eureka moment here)
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=11407
They discovered or mentioned that with the EF-S 10-18mm STM lens the IS unit has a different "lock":

"When the IS is Off, image stabilization optics are locked in place with a spring suspension mechanism rather than a center lock mechanism. "

this would make it susceptible to the small vibrations of the shutter. Then perhaps with the IS unit being ON it would make little difference because it can't react that fast to the small vibrations of the shutter (theory).

This would also explain why the EF-M 32mm did not exhibit as much of a problem.



the tests were repeated and performed three different ways, different orientations of the camera to tripod head, with and without 10 second timer.

if it was a focusing precision issue or even a tripod issue than the EF-M 32mm would have shown dramatically different results, as well as the EF-M 55-200mm at 55m.

Also, the test was done in such a way to also try to mimic handholding to a certain degree by putting the camera in portrait mode. but in reality, it didn't make much difference.

------------
Takeway - I guess you could argue that it's not "shutter shock" but it's obvious that it's IQ loss derived by the fact that it does have shutter shock paired with the EF-M lenses that most likely have spring based lock mechanisms. In reality it really doesn't matter - the shutter is causing the problem.

I seem to recall this being a similar problem with other IS's on cameras that did have shutter shock years back, but that information is pretty scant to find these days.

I'm still pretty confident to call it like it is, even though I think semantically you can argue the term. The M6 Mark II is shipped with these zooms, and exhibits the problems when using the mechanical shutter and these zooms.
Thank you. Are you able to run a quick test on EF 24-70/2.8 II L?
there is no IS group to be affected. Only the focusing group.
100/2.8 Macro L with IS on and off would be also great to have tested.
I am thinking that EF-m zoom lenses tested are the issue.
 

hachu21

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Feb 11, 2014
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Thank you. Are you able to run a quick test on EF 24-70/2.8 II L?
there is no IS group to be affected. Only the focusing group.
100/2.8 Macro L with IS on and off would be also great to have tested.
I am thinking that EF-m zoom lenses tested are the issue.
And test it also with a M6 mk1 as a reference.
Why on earth did they remove this? Any idea?
 

canonnews

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Thank you. Are you able to run a quick test on EF 24-70/2.8 II L?
there is no IS group to be affected. Only the focusing group.
100/2.8 Macro L with IS on and off would be also great to have tested.
I am thinking that EF-m zoom lenses tested are the issue.
- I don't have those lenses, so no.
- I have other EF-M lenses without IS that I can test with as time goes on. Each lens test that I do will have a section on this. The 24-70 wouldn't necessarily show anything different than the 32mm 1.4 does.
- I do have the EF-m 28mm which does the macro IS unit, but again, they are made to be cheaper - well, so is the entire EF-M platform really.

The zooms themselves aren't the issue, the camera is causing the vibrations.

While I get testing or expanding to include EF lenses in with it, I think my point is that EOS-M lenses that were developed for the mount should work with the camera.
 
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woodman411

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- I don't have those lenses, so no.
- I have other EF-M lenses without IS that I can test with as time goes on. The 24-70 wouldn't necessarily show anything different than the 32mm 1.4 does.
- I do have the EF-m 28mm which does the macro IS unit, but again, they are made to be cheaper - well, so is the entire EF-M platform really.

I'm glad you tested this, I owned an M3 and 70D and couldn't get as sharp shots on the M3, even though they both had the same sensor and lenses (adapted on the M). I suspected shutter shock since the shutter click was noticeably louder and stronger on the M3, something about the smaller frame that doesn't seem to dampen the vibrations as much.
 
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Kjsheldo

EOS M50
Dec 9, 2019
42
43
I tried out this camera thinking it would be a good walk-around camera, but the shutter was so loud, I couldn't do it. Makes sense it has insane shutter shock as well. The EOS R's shutter is loud as well. Didn't think that would matter too much to me, but after using the Panasonic S1, GH5, and Fuji XT3, I can't go back to the very attention-grabbing clanks of Canon's mirrorless cameras. Hopefully they fixed that with the R5...
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M6 Mark II + EOS M200
Feb 4, 2015
157
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And test it also with a M6 mk1 as a reference.
Why on earth did they remove this? Any idea?

I've been wondering that myself, and the only real reason I can think of (minus "crippling" the camera) is so the M6 Mark II doesn't have an EFCS to process for when capturing photos at up to 14 FPS with the mechanical shutter. That is assuming though that having an EFCS does take some processing out of the shot-to-shot performance in any camera.
 
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Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
I bet those famous photograpers used 20kg tripod :)
I use 2 kg shaky benbo trekker when shooting rocks and things on my desc . shutter shake wouldnt be good at all.
Yes and leaf shutters ! My G1x doesn’t suffer from any shutter shock at low speeds . Personally I’m really surprise and disappointed that Canon chose not to put EFCS on their highest resolution sensor. On the 5DS I definitely see sharper images when using live view and EFCS and that camera’s a lot heavier than the M6, so the lack of it in the M6ii worthwhile bringing to light.
 
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Dragon

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This test is not complete. There will always be shutter shock wit a mechanical shutter and the specific resonance of the mounting system will either amplify or null the effect. The test needs to be rerun first with the camera in landscape, and then with a couple of EF lenses (a light one like the 40mm pancake and something heavy like a 70-200L f/2.8 would be a good start). Secondly, try a different tripod setup and see if the results are the same or peaking in a different place (almost inevitable). Now test with some added mass and find out where the camera is least affected. Anyone who has successfully done distance shots with a long mirror lens understands the critical nature of tripod resonance. The changes with focal length with the zooms could have as much to do with the change in mass moment when zooming as anything else. If you are going to do a scientific test, then you have to analyze all the variables.
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,122
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I tried out this camera thinking it would be a good walk-around camera, but the shutter was so loud, I couldn't do it. Makes sense it has insane shutter shock as well. The EOS R's shutter is loud as well. Didn't think that would matter too much to me, but after using the Panasonic S1, GH5, and Fuji XT3, I can't go back to the very attention-grabbing clanks of Canon's mirrorless cameras. Hopefully they fixed that with the R5...
The EOS RP shutter is much quieter (interestingly, it is the opposite of the M6 Mark II, so EFCS only, can't turn it off), I also felt that it shakes the camera less than the shutter on the R (but the extra grip and weight of the R helps stability).
I don't think the R5 shutter will be very quiet if it can do 12fps, but the electronic shutter mode should be less limited than before.
 
May 7, 2020
1
0
I don't understand, I have made several tests with my m6 mkii and different lenses (efm 15-45, EFS 18_135 USM, ... even with my sigma 150-600 at 600 mm !!!) and I have not observed differences between the photos made with the electronic or mechanical shutter .
The differences discussed in the article could be due to a problem with the tested camera (?) (or with the tripod ;) )
 

Otara

EOS RP
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2012
403
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I use my gear for a variety of purposes, and for many of them the vibrations reported by Canon News are too small to be noticeable. But, I do push my gear to the limits and these problems are killers, like when you are photographing fine details or heavy cropping. Those railing against the good work done by Canon News are like those who say that they managed perfectly well with 16 Mpx and that 20 Mpx are more than enough for anyone.

It would irritate me if I had it.

This is most likely a marketting choice, similar to the no 24fps.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
396
389
I am a freelancing photographer with an agency for video production, photography, design and wedding photography for 8 years now.
I must say that shutter shock is the single most important thing in a camera that I ever found. Canon has to seriously step up their game if they don't want to fall further behind. Sonys Shuttershockperformance is a gamechanger and canon is certainly ******* if they dont stop to cripple their lower models with an incredible bad Shuttershockperformance. Especialy for product shots, but also for event photos, birds, sports and landscape I found the shutter shock blurr realy problematic. This deliberate crippling shows once again how out of touch canon is with their customers.
/s

Seriously, I never experienced any issue at all with any canon camera with "shutter shock". I know that my models have a special shutter mode to avoid it, but in like 10 years (8 professionally) I never needed it.
 

SecureGSM

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I am a freelancing photographer with an agency for video production, photography, design and wedding photography for 8 years now.
I must say that shutter shock is the single most important thing in a camera that I ever found. Canon has to seriously step up their game if they don't want to fall further behind. Sonys Shuttershockperformance is a gamechanger and canon is certainly ******* if they dont stop to cripple their lower models with an incredible bad Shuttershockperformance. Especialy for product shots, but also for event photos, birds, sports and landscape I found the shutter shock blurr realy problematic. This deliberate crippling shows once again how out of touch canon is with their customers.
/s

Seriously, I never experienced any issue at all with any canon camera with "shutter shock". I know that my models have a special shutter mode to avoid it, but in like 10 years (8 professionally) I never needed it.

What a great example of SONY trolling.. Just Marvelous....

two completely opposite statements:

1. Canon has to seriously step up their game if they don't want to fall further behind. Sonys Shuttershockperformance is a gamechanger

and

2. Seriously, I never experienced any issue at all with any canon camera with "shutter shock".

The test demonstrated that a prime lens was unaffected. Only a specific group of cheap ef-m zoom lenses with likely AF group (IS) design issues was affected
 
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canonnews

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What a great example of SONY trolling.. Just Marvelous....

two completely opposite statements:

1. Canon has to seriously step up their game if they don't want to fall further behind. Sonys Shuttershockperformance is a gamechanger

and

2. Seriously, I never experienced any issue at all with any canon camera with "shutter shock".

The test demonstrated that a prime lens was unaffected. Only a specific group of cheap ef-m zoom lenses with likely AF group (IS) design issues was affected
you missed his /s (sarcasm)

Also shutter shock doesn't happen with any another canon camera, because as we mention they all have EFCS.

While the prime did show it was mostly unaffected, the EF-M lenses used were also ones that are commonly used in the EF-M ecosystem, and in reality, they work on every other EOS-M camera EXCEPT the M6 Mark II while in mechanical shutter between around 1/80 and 1/150 of second shutter speed.

So it's really hard to toss the blame on the lenses. Also EF-S lenses and maybe even the RF 35mm F1.8 are designed the exact same way. The EF-M lens ecosystem is small enough without having to toss out 2/3's of the available lenses because they really don't work with the camera.

I'm usually pretty good at explaining why Canon did x,y or z.. but in this case I have no answer.

I think we've done enough to identify that it MAY be a problem, and that care should be exercised between 1/80 and 1/200th of a second if you are using a EF-M IS lens with the M6 Mark II. That is NOT something you ever have to worry about with any other EOS-M camera, but the M6 Mark II - so it is what it is.

I'm going to do some more testing over the weekend, but really I want to prepare for the EF-M 32 and Sigma 30mm shootout ;) because I'm really curious on who wins that.
 
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SecureGSM

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you missed his /s (sarcasm)

Also shutter shock doesn't happen with any another canon camera, because as we mention they all have EFCS.

While the prime did show it was mostly unaffected, the EF-M lenses used were also ones that are commonly used in the EF-M ecosystem, and in reality, they work on every other EOS-M camera EXCEPT the M6 Mark II while in mechanical shutter between around 1/80 and 1/150 of second shutter speed.

So it's really hard to toss the blame on the lenses. Also EF-S lenses and maybe even the RF 35mm F1.8 are designed the exact same way. The EF-M lens ecosystem is small enough without having to toss out 2/3's of the available lenses because they really don't work with the camera.

I'm usually pretty good at explaining why Canon did x,y or z.. but in this case I have no answer.

I think we've done enough to identify that it MAY be a problem, and that care should be exercised between 1/80 and 1/200th of a second if you are using a EF-M IS lens with the M6 Mark II. That is NOT something you ever have to worry about with any other EOS-M camera, but the M6 Mark II - so it is what it is.

I'm going to do some more testing over the weekend, but really I want to prepare for the EF-M 32 and Sigma 30mm shootout ;) because I'm really curious on who wins that.
thank you. just a quick one:
yes, it is may be a problem. however the problem is with specific type of lenses. and even more specific with how either focusing group or AF group being affected by mechanical shutter...
here is my point:
if mechanical shutter operation results in such a massive shock, it should have affect any lenses attached to the camera in the same size weight category.
it is the camera body that supposedly being shocked, vibrates and transfer vibrations onto the lens...
the prime lens not being affected disprove this theory.
IS or AF unit, is either not being properly parked or interfere with the mechanical shutter operation of this camera.

I would run a test in a manual focusing mode as well to ensure that we have enough information to arrive at a solid conclusion.
 

canonnews

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thank you. just a quick one:
yes, it is may be a problem. however the problem is with specific type of lenses. and even more specific with how either focusing group or AF group being affected by mechanical shutter...
here is my point:
if mechanical shutter operation results in such a massive shock, it should have affect any lenses attached to the camera in the same size weight category.
it is the camera body that supposedly being shocked, vibrates and transfer vibrations onto the lens...
the prime lens not being affected disprove this theory.
IS or AF unit, is either not being properly parked or interfere with the mechanical shutter operation of this camera.

I would run a test in a manual focusing mode as well to ensure that we have enough information to arrive at a solid conclusion.

it could be the focus groups, but more likely it's the IS mechanism.

there is no physical "park/lock" with the lower end IS units unlike the L lenses.

there a few tests I want to do .. one specifically is to try two shots handheld just to make sure the problem exists in a normal case versus tripod. I really don't think it's the tripod, I tried different heights based upon the center column which is usually the problem, and no difference, and no different in landscape / portrait

I did IS on/off so even if it's the IS unit, it looks like it can't react fast enough to the vibration frequency of the shutter.

I'll try some manual lenses as well, but in reality, I'm to the point where I want to put the information into the individual lens reviews.
 
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