Are you really serious about 6D?

[salsaguy]

Heres a good hands on review of the 6D stating its pros and cons:

http://froknowsphoto.com/canon-6d-review/
He agrees the lack of more cross type focus points is the big downer for this camera.

I myself upgraded from a Rebel T2i to the 60D due to the more/better cross type focus points and the built in off camera flash control on the 60D, which is great. Its a great camera

I would love to have a 6D as a 2nd body and have a FF body to compliment my crop sensor 60D, but going down in # of cross type sensors on such an expensive FF camera to me is a downgrade. They could have still kept the 6D lower on the totem pole compared to the 5DMk3 if they kept the 60D specs and just made it with a FF sensor. Lots of the Rebels now have better specs and features than the 6D.

Yes Canon is targeting the Rebel and XXD users who want to get into the FF arena but I think they left out some key high priority specs and instead added Wifi/GPS and some modern things to make it desireable to "some" but I think they left out many of those pro-sumer/advanced amateures who are in the know and wish the 6D had more, so they could have no reason NOT to go FF and get the 6D instead of giving us some concerns to add/upgrade to the 6D, like me.

The lack of a built in flash on a FF camera makes sense as most getting into FF know off off camera flash or external flash is the way to go.

So Im torn and may wait to see if the upgrade the 6D to some better specs down the road.

My 4 lenses are EF 50mm 1.8, EF 85mm 1.8, EF-S 15-85 zoom, EF-S 10-22mm zoom.

 

[skitron]

He agrees the lack of more cross type focus points is the big downer for this camera...Lots of the Rebels now have better specs and features than the 6D...So Im torn and may wait to see if the upgrade the 6D to some better specs down the road.

FWIW, I went 60D (1 week) > 50D (2yrs) > 5D2 (1yr) > 6D (1 week) > 5D3 (1 month so far) and yes the lack of cross outers is a bit of a bummer on the 6D. But to try to help put it in perspective, I'd take the 6D AF over the 60D AF system any day, even if 60D had AFMA (the lack of which was a deal killer for me). The "give-away" on the outers is not much in actual practice IMO (as opposed to spec sheet) between these two bodies, while the 6D center is the best of the entire Canon lineup in both practice and spec, 6D has AFMA where 60D does not, 6D also has a simplified version of the "AF ballistics" found in 5D3 and 1DX where 60D has none. Plus 6D locks way faster than 60D.

I sent my 6D back due to a strong magenta shift in the RAWs and odd dynamic rendering. I have not seen that in other posted shots, so conclude mine was just a dud. I went 5D3 for the color rendering, moire-less video, and wanted to try the expanded AF. I'll never go back to a lesser AF on my primary body now that I'm spoiled rotten with it. But again, to help put it in perspective, I would have been more than happy with the 6D AF system compared to what I had used in the past, and it spoiled me rotten too, just in a different way. LOL, I had to take a chill pill when it tried the 5D3 in very low light after experiencing the 6D.

 

[skitron]

The only people who logically can get 6D are those Canon Crop users who have tons of pro/FF L glasses but cannot afford a 5D3. If you are upgrading to FF from Canon and are not beaming with L glasses already, the logical route is to jump to a BETTER brand anyway.

LOL, despite the obvious trolling...

The D600 high ISO noise and bad color rendering are pretty nasty warts imo.

So maybe the better "logic" is if you want a nice general purpose camera that becomes a monster in bright light and you have good color correction in post and don't care about being able to shoot in low light, the D600 is a great choice. And the 6D is a great choice if you want a nice general purpose camera with good color rendering that becomes a total beast in low light, and maximum possible perfomance at ISO 100 is not as important to you.

Plus remember, neither a 6D nor D600 will melt, explode, crumble to dust, or otherwise self destruct if the other brand is sitting next to it in the closet or camera bag...nor will using both brands cause the photog to go insane, blind, commence projectile vomitting, or otherwise end up in the hospital or psych ward.

IMO, one could actually make a pretty good gear bag with one each of these bodies and a couple of lenses for each that exploits their strengths. JMO.

 

[eyeland]

I for one am waiting for more tests of the non-center points AF on the 6D.
The outer points on my old rebel were rather useless and I surely did enjoy the AF of the 60D. I don't need many AF points, tracking or other fancy AF stuff for the work I do, but it surely is nice to have the option of off-center focus without having to recompose or crop.
Like so many others, I am well aware that the 5D3 is what I really want, and like so many others, the 5D3 is out of my price-range for the time being, and so, half time I manage to convince myself that the outer points on the 6D MUST perform better that the rebel AF. Surely, it could be that these non-cross type AF points are better that similarly labelled points in earlier cameras?
I am sure that the 6D center point is great, but I what I really need to know before pulling the trigger, is just HOW "bad" those outer points are.
Anyone with access to 6D and earlier AF systems up for doing a few simple tests of the peripheral AF points?

 

[BL]

I for one am waiting for more tests of the non-center points AF on the 6D.
The outer points on my old rebel were rather useless and I surely did enjoy the AF of the 60D. I don't need many AF points, tracking or other fancy AF stuff for the work I do, but it surely is nice to have the option of off-center focus without having to recompose or crop.
Like so many others, I am well aware that the 5D3 is what I really want, and like so many others, the 5D3 is out of my price-range for the time being, and so, half time I manage to convince myself that the outer points on the 6D MUST perform better that the rebel AF. Surely, it could be that these non-cross type AF points are better that similarly labelled points in earlier cameras?
I am sure that the 6D center point is great, but I what I really need to know before pulling the trigger, is just HOW "bad" those outer points are.
Anyone with access to 6D and earlier AF systems up for doing a few simple tests of the peripheral AF points?

not sure what your experience is with the 5Dc or 5DII outer AF points, but here's what a user told me when I asked specifically about the 5Dc & 85L II combo (with outer AF points)

On my 6D it behaves very much similar to the way it did on my old 5D classic.... I wouldn't say it was impossible to get the shot, but it's just very very difficult to get a shot in focus if the subject is moving or is in a more challenging lighting situation. My 85L still works best on my 1D mark III and 5D mark III bodies. However, 85L with 6D's center point is so awesome, even indoors. I know it's been debated against many times, but I have a lot of success with center focus and recompose at f1.2. At times I notice the 5D mark III has difficulty indoors, even with the center point. But the 6D will lock better with center point at night when the 5D mark III can't or has much difficulty doing so, with just my 13 inch macbook pro lighting the entire room.

 

[Wildfire]

Anyone with access to 6D and earlier AF systems up for doing a few simple tests of the peripheral AF points?

I no longer have access to my 5D2 and T3i (just sold both) but I can tell you that the 6D outer AF points definitely feel better than the rebel, and probably better than the 5D2.

However, for me they are still not good enough to want to use them -- I still use the center AF point exclusively, as I did with the previous cameras.

 

[kbmelb]

Why I am not excited about 6D even though IQ seems to be quite good;

Times used Center Focus point in the last 2 year: 0x

In fact I just picked a used 1DsIII to be a back up to my 5DIII. A lot of what I shoot is in very low light environments with moving subjects. These shoots even give my 5DIII fits so I decided to sell my 5DII and 1DsII and get the 1DsIII. If the III's AF is at least as good as the II's I'll be very happy.

 

[eyeland]

mm Tuff choice for us lovers of the peripheral points...
Guess it's time to find a shop to play around with the 6D and give the outer points one last chance before picking up another crop body while saving for a 5Dmk3.

 

[Radiating]

Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.

You're missing the point of the 6D

Lenses are generally limited to around 22 megapixels of resolution, and no zoom has ever been made for 35mm that can exceed 21.3 megapixels over more than 15% of it's center frame.

The point therefore of the 6D is that it has less than HALF the noise of the 5D Mark II and 60% better shadow recovery while having enough megapixels for any lens or just under.

The 6D really shines at super high ISO though, at ISO 16,600, the 5D Mark II has the same ISO performance as the 6D at 51,200. Thats 3 times better high ISO, in addition to the 2 times less noise at low and medium ISO.

One might be mistaken to assume that the 6D has the same or equal resolution to the 5D Mark II, because it has 99% the linear resolution. This would be a mistake, the 6D has 13% MORE resolution due to an improved AA filter using the latest technology.

It's also lighter, smaller and has much better AF, the price will hit $1700 in 6 months too. Guaranteed.

 

[sdsr]

IMO, one could actually make a pretty good gear bag with one each of these bodies [6D & D600] and a couple of lenses for each that exploits their strengths. JMO.

That sounds eminently sensible, and with something like that in mind I rented both for several days over the New Year weekend, thinking that one or other would make a good companion for my 5DII. For reasons explained in another thread I preferred the Canon in every respect that matters to me and actively disliked a few aspects of the Nikon (esp. the controls and relatively murky viewfinder), so I'll not be adding a Nikon. But it's not hard to imagine that someone with different taste/priorities might conclude otherwise.

 

[ashmadux]

.................

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/pipoujid/popular-interesting/

Great portfolio with stunning photos. I like them

I agree, very neat shots, cool, fun. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you own a macro lens and somehow got attached to it! ;D

+3

these pics rock. Gotta love macro!

 

[Marsu42]

You're missing the point of the 6D

Many people are missing the point - unlike the 5d2, the 6d is build to be able to be produced much cheaper - right now it's nearly 10% below the release price (€200 less than €1999) , and that after only about 2 weeks of general availability in Germany!

So it seems the 6d will stay well below the 5d3, maybe even more than the current €1000 - and might even reach the Nikon d600 level. And @€1600 the weaknesses may be seen in a more forgiving light, at least the 6d is able to focus with af assist in under 2-3 seconds :->

 

[dswatson83]

Here is a video review of the 6D...it's a bit of a mixed bag. The picture quality is on par or better than the 5D3 but everything else for the most part is limited...except for the additional wifi which I love and GPS which I could care less about. :
http://learningcameras.com/reviews/4-dslrs/91-canon-6d-review

 

[Aglet]

Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors...

The 6D has a few IQ improvements over the 5D2 that ARE worthwhile.
100 and 200 ISO banding noise are almost completely eliminated compared to 5d2, my biggest complaint almost fixed.
6D's interface is better, center AF is better, quiet shutter is REALLY nice, hi ISO blows 5d2 away.

Lenses are generally limited to around 22 megapixels of resolution, and no zoom has ever been made for 35mm that can exceed 21.3 megapixels over more than 15% of it's center frame.

nope, plenty of good glass will outresolve even higher res sensors
my low cost Tamron 70-200/2.8 easily produces moire problems on my D800e, backing up what MR sez below. The lens is cheap cuz it's not well-featured but it IS sharp, end to end and right to the corners.

I have seen moire in pictures with a regular lens and a crop sensor 24Mp, equal to 54 Mp at a 24x36mm sensor
area, this means that the lens resolution are greater/ out resolves the sensor resolution.
The best lenses today handle more than 54Mp .
More pixels gives also better tonal transitions, less jaggies, easier to correct CA, crop etc etc

The point therefore of the 6D is that it has less than HALF the noise of the 5D Mark III and 60% better shadow recovery while having enough megapixels for any lens or just under.

The 6D really shines at super high ISO though, at ISO 16,600, the 5D Mark II has the same ISO performance as the 6D at 51,200. Thats 3 times better high ISO, in addition to the 2 times less noise at low and medium ISO.

One might be mistaken to assume that the 6D has the same or equal resolution to the 5D Mark II, because it has 99% the linear resolution. This would be a mistake, the 6D has 13% MORE resolution due to an improved AA filter using the latest technology.

It's also lighter, smaller and has much better AF, the price will hit $1700 in 6 months too. Guaranteed.

+1
all good things over the 5d2 and even 5d3, depending on your requirements

 

[verysimplejason]

Why I am not excited about 6D even though IQ seems to be quite good;

Times used Center Focus point in the last 2 year: 0x

In fact I just picked a used 1DsIII to be a back up to my 5DIII. A lot of what I shoot is in very low light environments with moving subjects. These shoots even give my 5DIII fits so I decided to sell my 5DII and 1DsII and get the 1DsIII. If the III's AF is at least as good as the II's I'll be very happy.

You don't need 6D. It's 5D3.

 

[hemidesign]

I got 3.. LOL

 

[x-vision]

I got 3.. LOL

You ARE serious about the 6D 8).

 

[J.R.]

I've been using the 7D as a 2nd body but am seriously considering selling it and buying a 6D instead simply for the IQ. Love the FF and because I don't make very large prints, I can forego the 1.6 magnification of the 7D.

At least I am excited about the 6D

 

[Pitbullo]

Please help me understand why people are excited about 6D? I cannot be excited about 97% VF, 1 x-pt AF, crippled 6D with wifi and facebook buttons. I will stick to a 5-year-old beloved 5D Mark II which is identical in IQ to Canon's newest sensors. Canon, you are not getting a dime of my money on your recent cameras. I have diversified my lenses so am not hostage to inferior sensors anymore.

I am not excited about the 6D, even though I might end up buying one in a year or so. Depending on what´s avaliable. How come I´m not excited? Well, I dont think they built the camera to be as good as it could be. As a tool, reviews on its own it is probably very ver capable. Looking at it compared to other cameras, not much so. It cost a shedload of money, and still my Rebel has a faster flash sync speed. Also, the VF is not 100%. Outside the 5D2 (discontinued) is it the only dSLR without 100%? And the shutter, with maximum speed of 1/4000. Why? They already have the shutter in 5D3, why not use this? It has a silent mode, like 6D, and can do 1/8000. Using this in another camera model would only make it cheaper (bigger production numbers).
Inferior autofocus, poor weather sealing, all is OK. If we need better here we got the 5D3. The VF and sync speed is to me clearly made to make it worse, to make it fit in a gap in the market, instead of making the camera as good as it can be.
I dont know... because from what I see, the 6D performs great, with IQ second to none. And that quite annoys me, because if I bought it now it would be a great companion, but back in my head I´d always hear the voice saying it could have, and should have, been a little bit better specced.
The top models should distance themselves from the cheap models by way way better specs, not by making the cheaper models deliberately worse. (does that make sense?)
Anyway, as a hobbyist, I might end up with the 6D some day, due to not wanting to spend endless amount of money on a camera body. Walking straight in to Canons trap
Oh, BTW, I do love my Rebel!

 

[eyeland]

I am still trying to find a shop that will let me play with 60D/7D/6D head to head (or body to body) without much luck
Some optimistic part of my brain is still entertaining the belief that the non-X-type outer point AF points on the 6D are as good as the X-type points on the 60D or better.
The fear of inferior AF is the only thing that keeps me from being very serious about the 6D