AutoISO messed up.... AGAIN? arrrrrrr it's just not that difficult

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Wow, I can't believe something so simple as AutoISO is STILL not usable! Good grief!

1. In Auto ISO M mode there is no EC allowed again!

2. So then you are like well they added min. shutter speed to Auto ISO now so at least we might be able to often get away with using Av mode instead. BUT, they make the maximum allowed min speed only 1/250th??? They limit it from 1 second to 1/250th?! What!? What does 1/250th do you for action?? And if you are using 1 second long exposures and stuff you surely have enough time to adjust the ISO as needed manually anyway.
Wow. It is so beyond absurd. Why on earth do they limit it? It makes no sense.

And of course will they fix it in firmware? Not unless by new firmware you mean $4500 for the 5D4. (and even then, after almost 20 years dare we hope they finally hit upon a truly usable AutoISO? I'm not sure.)

I mean it would be soooooo easy to fix in firmware and I wouldn't make a big deal, but we all know it's like pulling teeth to get them to fix anything like that in firmware.

At least they did finally decide to listen and outline the histogram so you can see it in bright light but just as I was happy about that and the the AutoISO Av shutter limits then I see min shutter speed can be set from 1 second to 1/250th. arrrrrrrrr I mean they focus the limit on the very speeds where AutoISO is LEAST useful!

 

[briansquibb]

Wow, I can't believe something so simple as AutoISO is STILL not usable! Good grief!

1. In Auto ISO M mode there is no EC allowed again!

2. So then you are like well they added min. shutter speed to Auto ISO now so at least we might be able to often get away with using Av mode instead. BUT, they make the maximum allowed min speed only 1/250th??? They limit it from 1 second to 1/250th?! What!? What does 1/250th do you for action?? And if you are using freaking 1 second long exposures and stuff you surely have enough time to adjust the ISO as needed manually anyway.
Wow. Has anyone at Canon actually ever used a camera?
It is so beyond absurd. Why on earth do they limit it? It makes no sense.

And of course will they fix it in firmware? Not unless by new firmware you mean $4500 for the 5D4. (and even then, after almost 20 years dare we hope they finally hit upon a truly usable AutoISO? I'm not sure.)

I mean it would be soooooo easy to fix in firmware and I wouldn't make a big deal, but we all know it's like pulling teeth to get them to fix anything like that in firmware.

At least they did finally decide to listen and outline the histogram so you can see it in bright light but just as I was happy about that and the the AutoISO Av shutter limits then I see min shutter speed can be set from 1 second to 1/250th. arrrrrrrrr

Auto ISO is best used in M mode when all the issues that you mention just disappear. This feature was also available on the 1D4 so it is nothing new.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Auto ISO is best used in M mode when all the issues that you mention just disappear. This feature was also available on the 1D4 so it is nothing new.

1. It's new in M mode in that it was locked out on the 5D2 and older stuff, years worth of stuff.
2. you missed my point #1 where they still don't allow EC to work in M mode AutoISO.

 

[briansquibb]

Auto ISO is best used in M mode when all the issues that you mention just disappear. This feature was also available on the 1D4 so it is nothing new.

1. It's new in M mode in that it was locked out on the 5D2 and older stuff, years worth of stuff.
2. you missed my point #1 where they still don't allow EC to work in M mode AutoISO.

I shoot in RAW so EC is not a big deal

It isn't new in M mode because it is in the 7D and 1D4

You were claiming that AutoISO was messed up in the 5D3 - which it clearly isnt - and you call Canon stupid which they clearly are not.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I can certainly see why a person might need some exposure correction, it seems like a unnecessary omission to me. I certainly plan to use the manual/ auto iso setting, and if I'd like to expose to the right, or correct a backlit situation, EC would be very useful.

Does the D1 X have it?

 

[briansquibb]

I can certainly see why a person might need some exposure correction, it seems like a unnecessary omission to me. I certainly plan to use the manual/ auto iso setting, and if I'd like to expose to the right, or correct a backlit situation, EC would be very useful.

Does the D1 X have it?

I would guess not - EC in M mode is a bit of a contradiction. However FEC works ....

 

[wickidwombat]

I can certainly see why a person might need some exposure correction, it seems like a unnecessary omission to me. I certainly plan to use the manual/ auto iso setting, and if I'd like to expose to the right, or correct a backlit situation, EC would be very useful.

Does the D1 X have it?

I would guess not - EC in M mode is a bit of a contradiction. However FEC works ....

not if in M mode the EC gets applied to the iso so when Auto ISO is enabled then
EC is also enabled and acts on ISO only if auto ISO is disabled the EC is disabled as normal
it would be a pretty powerfull function IMO
helps keep control over Exposure and keeps the lowest iso but allowing flexability in changing light
Auto anything only ever works where scene metering is quite balanced

 

[qwerty]

I can certainly see why a person might need some exposure correction, it seems like a unnecessary omission to me. I certainly plan to use the manual/ auto iso setting, and if I'd like to expose to the right, or correct a backlit situation, EC would be very useful.

Does the D1 X have it?

I would guess not - EC in M mode is a bit of a contradiction. However FEC works ....

There is no contradiction if one is using auto-ISO. From my reading of the guidebook (not using the word manual to avoid confusion), if you are in M mode and using auto-ISO, the camera will force you to use what it thinks is the correct exposure (AE-Lock notwithstanding).

If you had the option to set exposure on the fly, M-mode + auto-ISO would probably replace Av as my default setting, particularly in changing light conditions.

Of course, the best solution for a pure manual mode would be to have 3 dials, each of which could be independently set to one of {aperture/shutter speed/iso/exposure}; with the 4th determined by the camera.

A user-programmable (but not necessarily on-camera-programmable) custom exposure mode would be feasible too, where one could specify (i.e. write a program that the camera would run) how to set the four parameters above based on some set of user settings and the scene illumination at various points.

 

[briansquibb]

If you had the option to set exposure on the fly, M-mode + auto-ISO would probably replace Av as my default setting, particularly in changing light conditions.

Not sure what you are getting at here?

As you are in M mode then iso, aperture and shutter speed are adjustable on the fly

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Auto ISO is best used in M mode when all the issues that you mention just disappear. This feature was also available on the 1D4 so it is nothing new.

1. It's new in M mode in that it was locked out on the 5D2 and older stuff, years worth of stuff.
2. you missed my point #1 where they still don't allow EC to work in M mode AutoISO.

I shoot in RAW so EC is not a big deal

It isn't new in M mode because it is in the 7D and 1D4

You were claiming that AutoISO was messed up in the 5D3 - which it clearly isnt - and you call Canon stupid which they clearly are not.

It is because the limits they put, for NO REASON, in AutoISO Av mode are not good AND because no EC in M mode and now you are just making excuses by saying that shooting in RAW means that proper exposure now doesn't matter? Weren't you all using the excuse that those wanting better DR are just fools who don't know how to use proper exposure? interesting....

 

[qwerty]

If you had the option to set exposure on the fly, M-mode + auto-ISO would probably replace Av as my default setting, particularly in changing light conditions.

Not sure what you are getting at here?

As you are in M mode then iso, aperture and shutter speed are adjustable on the fly

Not if you are using auto-ISO (the topic of this thread); per the manual, only two of those parameters are adjustable if you are using auto-ISO. That is part of why people are complaining. If you could use auto-ISO in M mode and adjust exposure, it would suit my shooting style much better. For me, its easier to think in terms of specifying {aperture, shutter speed, and exposure}, and let the computer (camera) figure out what ISO is needed to give me what I want.

As it is, if you are using auto-ISO, and you want to shoot in M-mode using the exposure that you decide is correct (instead of the camera), you could either a) find something in the scene to use AE Lock on, then recompose (which is a pain, and not suitable for quick shooting), or b) change out of auto-ISO mode, which defeats the purpose of auto-ISO mode.

As I understand it from the manual, a custom setting C1 set to default in M-mode @ f/2, 1/200 second (aperture and shutter speed adjusted in between shots as needed), and using auto-ISO, would work for about 85% of the pictures I take indoors without flash. If I could add in exposure compensation, that would go up to about 95-100% of the no-flash indoor shots I take.

Similarly, C2 set to default in M-mode @ f/2.8, 1/2000 second (again, these would be adjusted based on conditions, I am just giving typical values) and using auto-ISO would work for about 60% of the sports shooting I do outdoors (a lower percentage because backlighting is more common outdoors). If I could add exposure compensation, that would be 95-100% again.

For landscapes and such, I don't care to use auto-ISO, because I can easily spare a few seconds to change ISO every shot, if needed. For other things, a slightly more intelligent auto-ISO would be amazing.

 

[sarangiman]

To those wondering why you'd want EC in M mode with Auto ISO, here's an example: a grossly backlit object. The camera will just end up underexposing unless you switch to spot metering mode or use AE lock.

AE lock is complicated by the fact that if the subject is too small compared to the rest of the scene, you won't even be able to use it to lock on to an appropriate exposure.

Whereas ±5 stops of EC & a generally good knowledge/intuition for EV values of different elements in the scene would have combined to make a much more useful AutoISO in M mode.

But then again, for me, Auto ISO in M mode is already going to be limited for me b/c I would've used it most with off-camera flashes, and if they put limitations on the ISO there... *sigh*.

I've never used Auto ISO & it may just end up staying that way!

I agree that firmware fixes would be extremely welcome. Or open up your entire platform and let users do some programming for their own needs! Haha, definitely wishful thinking on that last one there...

 

[YellowJersey]

Doesn't matter to me, as I always change ISO manually. The closest I get to auto is using AV and sometimes TV.

 

[callaesthetics]

im not quite understanding this? i have the 7D and my camera does all of what you just mentioned the 5D3 can't do? is this true?

 

[briansquibb]

im not quite understanding this? i have the 7D and my camera does all of what you just mentioned the 5D3 can't do? is this true?

The 5DII has an auto iso system the same as the 7D with a few extras.

 

[briansquibb]

To those wondering why you'd want EC in M mode with Auto ISO, here's an example: a grossly backlit object. The camera will just end up underexposing unless you switch to spot metering mode or use AE lock.

Correct - so if you are following a bird or a bike you have it in spot mode. I would expect this to be normal practise

But then again, for me, Auto ISO in M mode is already going to be limited for me b/c I would've used it most with off-camera flashes, and if they put limitations on the ISO there... *sigh*.

Using flash and auto iso is not the way to go. Set all the parameters in M mode and let the flash produce the right amount of light.

AutoISO messed up.... AGAIN - NO!! it's just not that difficult once you understand it

 

[sarangiman]

sarangiman said: To those wondering why you'd want EC in M mode with Auto ISO, here's an example: a grossly backlit object. The camera will just end up underexposing unless you switch to spot metering mode or use AE lock.

briansquibb said: Correct - so if you are following a bird or a bike you have it in spot mode. I would expect this to be normal practise

Yes but under other shooting conditions, say a wedding, switching back & forth between spot & evaluative is much more of a pain than just using EC. That being said, in non-flash event shooting, I typically use Av anyway... so not a huge concern to me personally.

Using flash and auto iso is not the way to go. Set all the parameters in M mode and let the flash produce the right amount of light.

I'm sorry, it was late & I wasn't thinking. You're absolutely right-- I always use M w/ off-camera flash specifically b/c I want to control the ambient vs. flash ratio. Auto ISO takes that control away & so is absolutely useless in the scenario I brought up.

Thanks for pointing that out

 

[briansquibb]

Yes but under other shooting conditions, say a wedding, switching back & forth between spot & evaluative is much more of a pain than just using EC. That being said, in non-flash event shooting, I typically use Av anyway... so not a huge concern to me personally.

It is worth practising changing the metering (by the WB button) whilst viewfinding. For not so fast action such as a wedding this is a simple and reasonably quick change to make inflight.

With the 1D4 I use M mode/auto iso about equal time to AV when not using flash (which is full manual). I use M/auto iso in order to keep the needed iso to the minimum by setting the slowest shutter speed and the maximum aperture - this keeps the IQ/DR to the maximum

 

[sarangiman]

I use M/auto iso in order to keep the needed iso to the minimum by setting the slowest shutter speed and the maximum aperture - this keeps the IQ/DR to the maximum

That's also great technique -- unfortunately not possible on the 5D2 b/c what the camera thinks are acceptable shutter speeds may or may not be acceptable at all. So hopefully that's totally fixed on the 5D3 now...

 

[briansquibb]

I use M/auto iso in order to keep the needed iso to the minimum by setting the slowest shutter speed and the maximum aperture - this keeps the IQ/DR to the maximum

That's also great technique -- unfortunately not possible on the 5D2 b/c what the camera thinks are acceptable shutter speeds may or may not be acceptable at all. So hopefully that's totally fixed on the 5D3 now...

The 5D2 has an auto iso limit of 400iso which is poor and one of the key factors of me going down the 7D/1D4 route