B&H Once again sued for discrimination

[privatebydesign]

[quote author=Pogo]
We have met the enemy and he is us.

Not taking sides or passing judgment on this civil case. I will let the courts and lawyers sort it out.

But...let's not forget who is really at fault here.

Consumers have become addicted to securing the lowest price possible at any cost. We buy from gray market dealers who circumvent the system just because it saves us a few dollars. We become tax scofflaws, buying from outlets that don't collect sales taxes and then we pretend we don't owe the tax. We buy from online outfits that pay nothing to support our local police, fire, schools, streets, etc.

Then we are shocked...shocked...that retailers cut costs in every way imaginable in order to compete.

I'm no better than anyone else and I don't know what the solution is. But, I do know that the current system may be great for consumers with lots of disposable income to spend on cameras and other toys, but it is not so good for working people.
[/quote]

As always there are counter points:

1/ We are addicted to the lowest prices because in real terms our wages have gone down considerably in the last 20 years.
2/ We buy grey market because despite the fear mongering they are exactly the same products made in the same factory by the same people, we are just taking advantage of currency fluctuations, like all multinationals do.
3/ We become tax scofflaws because we see corporations earning billions of dollars in profits pay zero tax. If a tax system is not seen to be fair then people will abuse it.
4/ We don't care about local services because they are well able to raise revenue via the police in fines and seizures and other unavoidable taxes. We can't avoid paying for schools (even if we don't use them) and roads because if we do we lose our homes, even if we own them outright.

 

[9VIII]

I say all the "Internet Shopping is Killing Retail" fluff is a bunch of hogwash.
Actually, Internet shopping is killing retail, and that's good, that's fantastic, I couldn't be happier that online shopping is killing retail. Traditional retail needs to DIE! (financially speaking)

My experience is that traditional retail means dealing with staff who are trying to shaft you and know next to nothing outside the best methods for shafting customers, and you don't even know if what you're looking for is in stock when you show up.
I know that rare exceptions do exist, but just about any retailer with a passion for their product is now online (because that's the best method of selling your product).

Prime example around here is Memory Express, a business that started with a single location in Calgary around the turn of the century and over the last decade or so has opened about a dozen clean and well staffed retail locations, and they did that by having a robust website and offering the best prices on the Internet.
Last time I tried shopping at Sears I had to argue with management just to get them to match sale prices advertised in their own national flyers.

What that tells me is we've found a wholly and entirely better way of doing retail. It just supports about 1/10th the number of retailers.
Which again is fantastic unless you're the kind of person who believes that businesses exist to find ways to employ people instead of existing to serve the customer.

 

[Bennymiata]

I say all the "Internet Shopping is Killing Retail" fluff is a bunch of hogwash.
Actually, Internet shopping is killing retail, and that's good, that's fantastic, I couldn't be happier that online shopping is killing retail. Traditional retail needs to DIE! (financially speaking)

My experience is that traditional retail means dealing with staff who are trying to shaft you and know next to nothing outside the best methods for shafting customers, and you don't even know if what you're looking for is in stock when you show up.
I know that rare exceptions do exist, but just about any retailer with a passion for their product is now online (because that's the best method of selling your product).

Prime example around here is Memory Express, a business that started with a single location in Calgary around the turn of the century and over the last decade or so has opened about a dozen clean and well staffed retail locations, and they did that by having a robust website and offering the best prices on the Internet.
Last time I tried shopping at Sears I had to argue with management just to get them to match sale prices advertised in their own national flyers.

What that tells me is we've found a wholly and entirely better way of doing retail. It just supports about 1/10th the number of retailers.
Which again is fantastic unless you're the kind of person who believes that businesses exist to find ways to employ people instead of existing to serve the customer.

Just imagine if your wish came true and all b&m retailers went broke.
Where would you go to actually see the latest models and try them out?
When you got hungry, I guess you could hang around for a couple of days until Fedex delivered you your hamburger?

 

[Orangutan]

I imagine that there are few packages, maybe 10% or fewer, that exceed 40 pounds, and out of shape 5'5" I can lift 40 #.

Yeah, but you don't have to maintain liability insurance against the possibility of suing yourself for throwing out your back, or meet the terms of that insurance.

I did a quick search and found this:

http://www.loadmoverinc.com/mmh-women-injured-on-the-job-more-than-men-and-its-not-about-muscle-power/

It's not a foregone conclusion that women are more at-risk from this kind of work. I wish I could find the reference, but I recall hearing of one study that said women were less likely to be injured by lifting moderate weights because they were more likely to use correct technique, whereas men tended to muscle everything. Maybe you have access to research databases that would answer the question better.

 

[9VIII]

I say all the "Internet Shopping is Killing Retail" fluff is a bunch of hogwash.
Actually, Internet shopping is killing retail, and that's good, that's fantastic, I couldn't be happier that online shopping is killing retail. Traditional retail needs to DIE! (financially speaking)

My experience is that traditional retail means dealing with staff who are trying to shaft you and know next to nothing outside the best methods for shafting customers, and you don't even know if what you're looking for is in stock when you show up.
I know that rare exceptions do exist, but just about any retailer with a passion for their product is now online (because that's the best method of selling your product).

Prime example around here is Memory Express, a business that started with a single location in Calgary around the turn of the century and over the last decade or so has opened about a dozen clean and well staffed retail locations, and they did that by having a robust website and offering the best prices on the Internet.
Last time I tried shopping at Sears I had to argue with management just to get them to match sale prices advertised in their own national flyers.

What that tells me is we've found a wholly and entirely better way of doing retail. It just supports about 1/10th the number of retailers.
Which again is fantastic unless you're the kind of person who believes that businesses exist to find ways to employ people instead of existing to serve the customer.

Just imagine if your wish came true and all b&m retailers went broke.
Where would you go to actually see the latest models and try them out?
When you got hungry, I guess you could hang around for a couple of days until Fedex delivered you your hamburger?

I haven't handled products in person for years, living two hours from the nearest "sort of large" urban center means the only demo equipment I get to try locally is labelled John Deere. Not to mention half the stuff I'm usually looking at is only available from out of country.
And when I do try to buy something "locally" it's usually out of stock.
A few years ago I tried to buy a Canon 90mm Tilt Shift lens during the rebate period. No-one in the country had one, and when I placed a special order the retailer never called me back.

Retailers are good for either extremely common items or high priced professional services. If you're not a big customer, just take what's on the shelf or look somewhere else.
So I buy just about everything from the U.S.
And prices from the states are usually better unless the U.S. economy is in meltdown.

Ok, maybe I should specify that Canadian retail can die in a fire. Ironically U.S. retailers are rapidly expanding North because they can charge ridiculous prices because everything is so hard to find up here.
But I'm not the one making Amazon the biggest retailer in America. It just happens that online shopping is both popular and good for international customers (and rural areas in general).


And I can't wait for hamburgers to be available for order online, most drive through cashiers have terrible verbal comprehension skills, not to mention the constant pestering "would you like our deal of the week?"
And then if there's more than three people in the vehicle they probably get the order wrong.

The less people involved in purchasing things the better.

 

[martti]

What happens when you outsource everything: https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Outsorcerer_s_Apprentice.html?id=WeXIAgAAQBAJ&source=kp_cover&hl=en

 

[martti]

An upgrade: Four emails sent, no reaction except the automatic patellar "Dear Customer" -thing.
So I called and explained that there really was one item that was delivered which is very nice but two are still missing. It's been two weeks until this idea penetrated.


I spoke english. With my Spanish...I did not try.
He promised to get the issue settled in five working days. Whatever it may mean.

 

[slclick]

An upgrade: Four emails sent, no reaction except the automatic patellar "Dear Customer" -thing.
So I called and explained that there really was one item that was delivered which is very nice but two are still missing. It's been two weeks until this idea penetrated.


I spoke english. With my Spanish...I did not try.
He promised to get the issue settled in five working days. Whatever it may mean.

March is a good time for ordering and shipping from B&H with very few Jewish Holidays halting all work. L'Chaim

 

[Cory]

The first thing I would do is move all operations out of New York. New Germany is just as bad if not worse. Probably upstate PA is the only option.

 

[Zv]

[quote author=Pogo]
We have met the enemy and he is us.

Not taking sides or passing judgment on this civil case. I will let the courts and lawyers sort it out.

But...let's not forget who is really at fault here.

Consumers have become addicted to securing the lowest price possible at any cost. We buy from gray market dealers who circumvent the system just because it saves us a few dollars. We become tax scofflaws, buying from outlets that don't collect sales taxes and then we pretend we don't owe the tax. We buy from online outfits that pay nothing to support our local police, fire, schools, streets, etc.

Then we are shocked...shocked...that retailers cut costs in every way imaginable in order to compete.

I'm no better than anyone else and I don't know what the solution is. But, I do know that the current system may be great for consumers with lots of disposable income to spend on cameras and other toys, but it is not so good for working people.

As always there are counter points:

1/ We are addicted to the lowest prices because in real terms our wages have gone down considerably in the last 20 years.
2/ We buy grey market because despite the fear mongering they are exactly the same products made in the same factory by the same people, we are just taking advantage of currency fluctuations, like all multinationals do.
3/ We become tax scofflaws because we see corporations earning billions of dollars in profits pay zero tax. If a tax system is not seen to be fair then people will abuse it.
4/ We don't care about local services because they are well able to raise revenue via the police in fines and seizures and other unavoidable taxes. We can't avoid paying for schools (even if we don't use them) and roads because if we do we lose our homes, even if we own them outright.
[/quote]

We are addicted to finding low prices but that is also a product of the consumerist culture we have created. Yeah we probably have less money but the more bargains we buy the more competitive the market becomes and retailers will need to keep up by exploiting staff of dodging tax. This problem will only get worse unless we take a long hard look at ourselves and make some lifestyle changes and become motivated to do something politically.

Today it's B&H, tomorrow it'll be a different company. Everyone just gets poorer as we funnel money to the top. Yet we continue down this path.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

An upgrade: Four emails sent, no reaction except the automatic patellar "Dear Customer" -thing.
So I called and explained that there really was one item that was delivered which is very nice but two are still missing. It's been two weeks until this idea penetrated.


I spoke english. With my Spanish...I did not try.
He promised to get the issue settled in five working days. Whatever it may mean.

March is a good time for ordering and shipping from B&H with very few Jewish Holidays halting all work. L'Chaim

B&H has a person who can help out if needed, Henry Posner fills a function similar to Helen Oster at Adorama. Ask Henry for help if you can't get it resolved.

 

[monkey44]

A little difference between Henry and Helen, besides the spelling.

When you have an issue with Adorama, Helen gets back to you very quickly.

When you have an issue with B&H, Henry gets back to you in five or six weeks.

This, based on personal experience - Although I believe members of the same family own each of these companies, I haven't done business with B&H in quite a while for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the after-sales CS. It once was great, years ago, now, leaves a lot on the table.

 

[slclick]

I'm already seeing the B&H bashing and personal boycotts mentioned on other sites. Folks here do not have a corner on the market for prejudgement.

 

[martti]

I'm already seeing the B&H bashing and personal boycotts mentioned on other sites. Folks here do not have a corner on the market for prejudgement.

Up until now I have got excellent service at B&H. This is something new that I have not experienced before.
The answers I got to my emails were inadequate to say the least.

WTH should I bash B&H? I have been a returning customer for a decade there now.

 

[slclick]

I'm already seeing the B&H bashing and personal boycotts mentioned on other sites. Folks here do not have a corner on the market for prejudgement.

Up until now I have got excellent service at B&H. This is something new that I have not experienced before.
The answers I got to my emails were inadequate to say the least.

WTH should I bash B&H? I have been a returning customer for a decade there now.

My comment was in no way directed at any of yours or your situation.

 

[martti]

I'm already seeing the B&H bashing and personal boycotts mentioned on other sites. Folks here do not have a corner on the market for prejudgement.

Up until now I have got excellent service at B&H. This is something new that I have not experienced before.
The answers I got to my emails were inadequate to say the least.

WTH should I bash B&H? I have been a returning customer for a decade there now.

My comment was in no way directed at any of yours or your situation.

I did not think so. Everybody is taking offence these days, so I just tried how it feels. Not worth it.
8) Peace.

 

[slclick]

On a positive note, B&H just issued me a $80 credit and 4% rewards for a lens I purchased less than30 days ago which just went on sale.

One polite email and, voila!

Have a great day!

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

A little difference between Henry and Helen, besides the spelling.

When you have an issue with Adorama, Helen gets back to you very quickly.

When you have an issue with B&H, Henry gets back to you in five or six weeks.

This, based on personal experience - Although I believe members of the same family own each of these companies, I haven't done business with B&H in quite a while for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the after-sales CS. It once was great, years ago, now, leaves a lot on the table.

I've never dealt with Henry directly, but Helen has helped me out, and she was fast, as you noted. Generally, I use Adorama for new High End Camera releases simply because I've always received my new camera from the first shipment while B&H seems to have so many orders that buyers have to wait.

I do buy plenty of items from B&H, several in the past year, and everything went smoothly.

We also have a small local camera store, I purchase full price new camera models from them as well. They only sell a half dozen of new releases like a 5D MK IV, but they get them very quickly.

 

[Ozarker]

The article says they've already been found guilty once.

Where does it say that? It says the previous lawsuit was settled, if you believe that means they were "found guilty," there are serious gaps in your understanding.

This quote is strongly suggestive of a finding of guilt or an admission of guilt as part of the settlement. I think "already" is justified, based on the article.

Until 2012, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission had been monitoring the company’s hiring and compensation practices as a result of an earlier discrimination suit. The company settled that suit in 2009 by agreeing to pay $4.3 million to 149 employees who were paid less, withheld from promotions or denied benefits because they were Hispanic.

I'm going to step in here. I'm an American of Mexican descent. I am not a Mexican-American. Mexican, Latino, Hispanic, Guatemalan, etc. are not races. If one studies anthropology there are but three races: Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid. There are even arguments in the field of anthropology that there are only two races: Caucasoid and Negroid. There is a vast difference between the terms ethnicity and race. Latinos come in all colors: Black, white, and Asian. Same with Mexicans. Mexican is a nationality, not a race. Mexico is largely run by Caucasians.

Someone will ask, "What about American Indians?" Asian. They came across a land bridge between Asia and North American many thousands of years ago.

"Latino" and "Hispanic" are political constructs used to divide us and used as tools by politicians to great effect. Latino? The overwhelming majority of Latin Americans are Catholic. What was the Catholic Mass given in? Latin.

Hispanic? First used politically by President Richard Nixon.

Every several years the voluntary "race" marker on forms gets bigger. More ways to divide us.

There are three races and hundreds of ethnicities. We are all human.

I have no idea exactly what goes on at B&H. Settling a case does not necessarily mean a party is guilty. At any rate, hispanic and latino are not races.

B&H will continue to get my business as well as Adorama. There are Black, White, and Asian Jews too. Jew is not a race either.

BTW, I read a lot of people in other forums calling Mexican nationals South Americans. Mexico is a part of the North American continent. They are North Americans.

 

[Ozarker]

I say all the "Internet Shopping is Killing Retail" fluff is a bunch of hogwash.
Actually, Internet shopping is killing retail, and that's good, that's fantastic, I couldn't be happier that online shopping is killing retail. Traditional retail needs to DIE! (financially speaking)

My experience is that traditional retail means dealing with staff who are trying to shaft you and know next to nothing outside the best methods for shafting customers, and you don't even know if what you're looking for is in stock when you show up.
I know that rare exceptions do exist, but just about any retailer with a passion for their product is now online (because that's the best method of selling your product).

Prime example around here is Memory Express, a business that started with a single location in Calgary around the turn of the century and over the last decade or so has opened about a dozen clean and well staffed retail locations, and they did that by having a robust website and offering the best prices on the Internet.
Last time I tried shopping at Sears I had to argue with management just to get them to match sale prices advertised in their own national flyers.

What that tells me is we've found a wholly and entirely better way of doing retail. It just supports about 1/10th the number of retailers.
Which again is fantastic unless you're the kind of person who believes that businesses exist to find ways to employ people instead of existing to serve the customer.

Internet shopping is not killing retail. It is retail. Internet shopping is spawning sales for both brick and mortar stores (Adorama and B&H) and internet only stores.