Breakthrough Photography Promises The Best Circular Polarizer

[Loswr]

1) on my 17-35 lens I used to use the CPL or a fader occasionally, but I didn't like the weird "X" with the fader if I pushed it just a little too far, and I didn't like the weird blue blobs in the sky on the wide end. With the flatter front element on the 16-35 f4, is there a recommended best CPL, or should I just rely on the ND's to tame down the bright sky? Anyone have any example photos with a CPL (B&W kasseman, Breakthrough Photography or other) on the 16-35 f4?

The Maltese cross artifact (aka weird 'X') isn't brand specific, it's optical. With a CPL, you get uneven polarization of the sky, etc., at focal lengths wider than ~28mm on FF (17mm on APS-C). A variable ND filter is just a linear polarizer stacked on a CPL, and that same uneven polarization manifests as the Maltese cross. So, with the 16-35/4L IS, you'll get uneven polarization at the wider end – see this recent thread for an example with the 16-35/4.

Having said that, I find the B+W Käsemann CPL's deliver excellent optical quality.

 

[mnclayshooter]

The Maltese cross artifact (aka weird 'X') isn't brand specific, it's optical. With a CPL, you get uneven polarization of the sky, etc., at focal lengths wider than ~28mm on FF (17mm on APS-C). A variable ND filter is just a linear polarizer stacked on a CPL, and that same uneven polarization manifests as the Maltese cross. So, with the 16-35/4L IS, you'll get uneven polarization at the wider end – see this recent thread for an example with the 16-35/4.

Having said that, I find the B+W Käsemann CPL's deliver excellent optical quality.

Thanks. That confirmed what I believed to be true. I had gotten a little confused as I had asked someone at B&H sales for a recommended filter for the 16-35f4 and they led me to a tiffen filter which claims to work great on wide angle lenses. It raised enough doubt that I though I would ask.

I will stick with the ND's and call it good on the 16-35.

I missed out, by what feels like minutes on the B&W Kasemann deal yesterday. I put it in my cart, looked at a couple other items, and it was sold out by the time I clicked on the complete purchase button. It led me to reading up a little on other filters etc. Thus the post.

Thanks again.

 

[Loswr]

I will stick with the ND's and call it good on the 16-35.

My most-used filter is the 10-stop ND (I have them in 77mm, 82mm and 145mm). Sometimes, I'll stack a CPL on top of that, as in this shot:

"Kapellbrücke"

EOS 1D X, TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II, 30 s, f/5.6, ISO 100 (10-stop ND + CPL)

 

[mnclayshooter]

I will stick with the ND's and call it good on the 16-35.

My most-used filter is the 10-stop ND (I have them in 77mm, 82mm and 145mm). Sometimes, I'll stack a CPL on top of that, as in this shot:

"Kapellbrücke"

EOS 1D X, TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II, 30 s, f/5.6, ISO 100 (10-stop ND + CPL)

Very nice. The chapel bridge photo brings back very good memories of my trip to Lucerne in 1994. I would love to take another trip there soon!

I think my most-used ND is the 6-stop that's almost permanently affixed to my 24-105 for hiking. Followed closely by the 3 stop that I use on the old tamron 17-35 I have been using. I'm excited to get out and put the 16-35 to the real test as it is just so much better than either of those two lenses. I've had it for a couple months.. it's very sharp on the few small tests I've done here and there with it. I just have been too busy to really go out and use it.

Here's to hoping the toothy wildlife stay at telephoto distances, and the geysers/volcanos stay quietly safe at UWA distances!

 

[mnclayshooter]

Hi all - sorry to revive an old discussion but this one seems pretty close to what I'm trying to get a little better understanding of.

I am heading out to Yellowstone soon and would like to replace a really clunky old CPL I have (w/dented ring and all... dented in the bag/loose, not on a lens, thankfully).

I likely will have the EF 16-35 f4 on abut 90% of the time and will swap it out for the 100-400 for wildlife.
I've ordered the ND filters from breakthrough but held off on the CPL for two reasons:

1) on my 17-35 lens I used to use the CPL or a fader occasionally, but I didn't like the weird "X" with the fader if I pushed it just a little too far, and I didn't like the weird blue blobs in the sky on the wide end. With the flatter front element on the 16-35 f4, is there a recommended best CPL, or should I just rely on the ND's to tame down the bright sky? Anyone have any example photos with a CPL (B&W kasseman, Breakthrough Photography or other) on the 16-35 f4?

2) 100-400 is notorious for having issues with filters and degrading the image - any experience with the breakthrough photography filters on the mk I lens?

I don't use CPLs on UWA lenses when sky is involved due to the uneven polarization effect with such a wide angle of view. For water/snow, it's a different story, so that is when I tend to use CPLs with UWA lenses. Graduated NDs would work especially if you're referring to something like the Cokin/Lee systems where you can place the line where you want it. Otherwise you're stuck exposing for the skies and pushing the exposure for the ground in post or blending multiple exposures.

I've never had problems using filters with either version of the 100-400 (previously I and now II). All my filters are B&W, but I wouldn't mind trying Breakthrough. Some of complained of Breakthrough's support and uneven quality, but if get a good one, then they're very good.

Thanks - sorry I just noticed your reply. I have always had the same experience with the WA and UWA's with CPL's... just got a little surprised/confused by some notations and a few reviews about a couple specific CPL's claiming improved or greatly improved performance on those types of lenses. I thought it might be time to try it again. The CPL I have available in my kit got damaged sometime last year, and I just haven't replaced it. ND's and grads have worked. Although grads in a threaded filter aren't the most appealing.

I've wondered a little bit about using a blender filter (one that takes a ND gradient smoothly across the filter vs a "hard" or soft" line at the mid point)... the thought being that it might be a little easier to recover a few of the shadows on the lower half in post than to recover the skies... I've never used one, so I don't know for sure. It's possible that it's worth the $80 experiment.

To be fair, I've never really attempted to use any filters other than a 2-stop ND (cheap) on the 100-400... it didn't seem to like that. I've never had any real need for anything more as I almost exclusively use it with the hood attached for protection and with the tele, I can control the scene enough to get the exposure more even. - not fighting a bright sky vs a dark mountain for example.

 

[scottkinfw]

I will stick with the ND's and call it good on the 16-35.

My most-used filter is the 10-stop ND (I have them in 77mm, 82mm and 145mm). Sometimes, I'll stack a CPL on top of that, as in this shot:

"Kapellbrücke"

EOS 1D X, TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II, 30 s, f/5.6, ISO 100 (10-stop ND + CPL)

Beautiful shot.

 

[scottkinfw]

I would caution anyone to NOT get this brand. The service was snarky, rude, condescending. I wouldn't own one if it was the only one. Caveot Emptor- buyer beware on this one.

I am not a troll either.
Sek

 

[Maximilian]

I would caution anyone to NOT get this brand. The service was snarky, rude, condescending. I wouldn't own one if it was the only one. Caveot Emptor- buyer beware on this one.

I am not a troll either.
Sek

And I've experienced the absolute opposite:
nice, friendly people, good service information, good products.
Absolutely no complains.

I can understand you, but I don't know how many had similar bad experiences with this and other companies like Canon, Nikon, Sony, LG, Mercedes, Ford, etc...
I don't know how high the percentage here is.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I would caution anyone to NOT get this brand. The service was snarky, rude, condescending. I wouldn't own one if it was the only one. Caveot Emptor- buyer beware on this one.

I am not a troll either.
Sek

And I've experienced the absolute opposite:
nice, friendly people, good service information, good products.
Absolutely no complains.

I can understand you, but I don't know how many had similar bad experiences with this and other companies like Canon, Nikon, Sony, LG, Mercedes, Ford, etc...
I don't know how high the percentage here is.

It's tough facing these decisions but nice to have the feedback to factor in. It only takes one bad apple and companies should be more diligent to get rid of bad apples. However, on any given day any one of us can be a bad apple so ...... :-\

Jack

 

[[email protected]]

I'm afraid I have had a similar experience. Two issues, really, both related.

The first issue is the fact that the X1 77mm polarizer they sent me was non-operational. Two replacements (very speedy, nice service initially) were also problematic. Two of the three didn't rotate the two layers of glass, and one I believe didn't even have a second layer of glass.

I understand that there might be a bad batch or something and appreciated their swift replacements.

The second issue however... Upon asking for the last (fourth) replacement, I got a response from Graham himself indicating that he'd send me a return box/refund but that I should buy someone else's filter. He stated that the others were personally inspected by the person at the warehouse, and he seemed convinced that I must be some troll/bad actor.

I replied that he is likely putting more trust in that warehouse person than is deserved, as anyone who knows how a CPL works would have been able to see that any of these three filters, and suggested that he inspect the ones I returned and the one I was about to return.

Unfortunately, I never did get that last return box or a refund, and am now sitting here staring at an incomplete or broken X1 77mm filter. My (polite) enquiries to the company over the last few weeks have gone unanswered.

My sense is that BP feels beleaguered and that it might misplace blame on its customers.

I will say that the ND filters I have from them have been great, and a good deal, but the experience I had with them doesn't seem to be unique. -tig

PS: My Marumi CP filters have been excellent, with very low transmission degradation versus polarizing effect (almost half that of my Hoya version). I plan on getting another of them if/when Breakthrough follows through with refund. Just came back from 10 day trip on wild birds without a second 77mm CP, which was a shame at times.

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

I'm afraid I have had a similar experience. Two issues, really, both related.

The first issue is the fact that the X1 77mm polarizer they sent me was non-operational. Two replacements (very speedy, nice service initially) were also problematic. Two of the three didn't rotate the two layers of glass, and one I believe didn't even have a second layer of glass.

I understand that there might be a bad batch or something and appreciated their swift replacements.

The second issue however... Upon asking for the last (fourth) replacement, I got a response from Graham himself indicating that he'd send me a return box/refund but that I should buy someone else's filter. He stated that the others were personally inspected by the person at the warehouse, and he seemed convinced that I must be some troll/bad actor.

I replied that he is likely putting more trust in that warehouse person than is deserved, as anyone who knows how a CPL works would have been able to see that any of these three filters, and suggested that he inspect the ones I returned and the one I was about to return.

Unfortunately, I never did get that last return box or a refund, and am now sitting here staring at an incomplete or broken X1 77mm filter. My (polite) enquiries to the company over the last few weeks have gone unanswered.

My sense is that BP feels beleaguered and that it might misplace blame on its customers.

I will say that the ND filters I have from them have been great, and a good deal, but the experience I had with them doesn't seem to be unique. -tig

PS: My Marumi CP filters have been excellent, with very low transmission degradation versus polarizing effect (almost half that of my Hoya version). I plan on getting another of them if/when Breakthrough follows through with refund. Just came back from 10 day trip on wild birds without a second 77mm CP, which was a shame at times.

Hello Tig Tillinghast,

Don't assume the worst on us, in fact it's more simple then that.

I inspected each one of your X1 CPLs after we received them in our warehouse, and I didn't find the same issues that you did.

If I'm not able to find the problem then I'm not sure what to say, and if the third time isn't the charm, and I haven't found the same issues with your X1 CPLs that you did upon inspecting them myself personally, that's why I recommend trying another one.

We just want all our customers to be happy with our products, and if they're not we do our best to make it right, or give a refund, or both.

A pre-paid return label has been emailed to you again.

Graham

 

[JPAZ]

Very interesting thread. Most interesting to me is the variety of experiences folks have had, some wonderful and some not so wonderful. Any one of us is just one anectdotal encounter with Breakthrough.

In summary, I have both some B&W and some Breakthrough products. The latter filters, at least, seem to be everything claimed by the company. At least in my limited experience, things like the color cast are a little better. Some were purchased directly from Breakthrough and some from B&H / Adorama.

If you are unsure, I'd recommend the Breakthrough products but would buy them through one of our "old friends" in NYC. That way, I'd never be concerned about after-the-sale returns or exchanges. If you personally don't want to buy a Breakthrough product, then B&W is an excellent product as well.

 

[scottkinfw]

Running a test and getting a result different from that of another does not necessarily mean they're the one who is incorrect.

Graham is one cocky guy, don't expect him to admit he is wrong.

 

[scottkinfw]

I would caution anyone to NOT get this brand. The service was snarky, rude, condescending. I wouldn't own one if it was the only one. Caveot Emptor- buyer beware on this one.

I am not a troll either.
Sek

And I've experienced the absolute opposite:
nice, friendly people, good service information, good products.
Absolutely no complains.

I can understand you, but I don't know how many had similar bad experiences with this and other companies like Canon, Nikon, Sony, LG, Mercedes, Ford, etc...
I don't know how high the percentage here is.

S

Sincerely, I am glad you didn't get the abuse I experienced, and i hope you got an excellent copy of the filter.

sek

 

[scottkinfw]

I'm afraid I have had a similar experience. Two issues, really, both related.

The first issue is the fact that the X1 77mm polarizer they sent me was non-operational. Two replacements (very speedy, nice service initially) were also problematic. Two of the three didn't rotate the two layers of glass, and one I believe didn't even have a second layer of glass.

I understand that there might be a bad batch or something and appreciated their swift replacements.

The second issue however... Upon asking for the last (fourth) replacement, I got a response from Graham himself indicating that he'd send me a return box/refund but that I should buy someone else's filter. He stated that the others were personally inspected by the person at the warehouse, and he seemed convinced that I must be some troll/bad actor.

I replied that he is likely putting more trust in that warehouse person than is deserved, as anyone who knows how a CPL works would have been able to see that any of these three filters, and suggested that he inspect the ones I returned and the one I was about to return.

Unfortunately, I never did get that last return box or a refund, and am now sitting here staring at an incomplete or broken X1 77mm filter. My (polite) enquiries to the company over the last few weeks have gone unanswered.

My sense is that BP feels beleaguered and that it might misplace blame on its customers.

I will say that the ND filters I have from them have been great, and a good deal, but the experience I had with them doesn't seem to be unique. -tig

PS: My Marumi CP filters have been excellent, with very low transmission degradation versus polarizing effect (almost half that of my Hoya version). I plan on getting another of them if/when Breakthrough follows through with refund. Just came back from 10 day trip on wild birds without a second 77mm CP, which was a shame at times.

Troll- that is what he called me, and cancelled my order for me. Seems to be his M.O. in solving problems on his end. Blame the loyal customer. He is narcissistic and immature. Shame.

sek

 

[scottkinfw]

I'm afraid I have had a similar experience. Two issues, really, both related.

The first issue is the fact that the X1 77mm polarizer they sent me was non-operational. Two replacements (very speedy, nice service initially) were also problematic. Two of the three didn't rotate the two layers of glass, and one I believe didn't even have a second layer of glass.

I understand that there might be a bad batch or something and appreciated their swift replacements.

The second issue however... Upon asking for the last (fourth) replacement, I got a response from Graham himself indicating that he'd send me a return box/refund but that I should buy someone else's filter. He stated that the others were personally inspected by the person at the warehouse, and he seemed convinced that I must be some troll/bad actor.

I replied that he is likely putting more trust in that warehouse person than is deserved, as anyone who knows how a CPL works would have been able to see that any of these three filters, and suggested that he inspect the ones I returned and the one I was about to return.

Unfortunately, I never did get that last return box or a refund, and am now sitting here staring at an incomplete or broken X1 77mm filter. My (polite) enquiries to the company over the last few weeks have gone unanswered.

My sense is that BP feels beleaguered and that it might misplace blame on its customers.

I will say that the ND filters I have from them have been great, and a good deal, but the experience I had with them doesn't seem to be unique. -tig

PS: My Marumi CP filters have been excellent, with very low transmission degradation versus polarizing effect (almost half that of my Hoya version). I plan on getting another of them if/when Breakthrough follows through with refund. Just came back from 10 day trip on wild birds without a second 77mm CP, which was a shame at times.

Hello Tig Tillinghast,

Don't assume the worst on us, in fact it's more simple then that.

I inspected each one of your X1 CPLs after we received them in our warehouse, and I didn't find the same issues that you did.

If I'm not able to find the problem then I'm not sure what to say, and if the third time isn't the charm, and I haven't found the same issues with your X1 CPLs that you did upon inspecting them myself personally, that's why I recommend trying another one.

We just want all our customers to be happy with our products, and if they're not we do our best to make it right, or give a refund, or both.

A pre-paid return label has been emailed to you again.

Graham

Very sweet sentiment Graham. What about the troll comment? You trash people who support you and you don't think it will come back to you? Karma is a b***h, especially when there are great alternatives from companies who treat customers well.

 

[Ozarker]

I just wish I could afford on. Need one on my 135L real bad. B+W is out of the question right now. This thread has over 28,000 views. Amazing!

 

[Pookie]

I just wish I could afford on. Need one on my 135L real bad. B+W is out of the question right now. This thread has over 28,000 views. Amazing!

CFB... I have now heard first hand 3 similar issues from people at my studio. I had warned them about this thread when they first came out and they decided to buy anyway. One took almost 4 months to arrive with no response from the CR there. The other two had what looked like a issue with coatings and more issues even getting a replacement. The response from them is very odd for a company trying to get more business in a field that simply has too many good offerings to deal with BS.

Buy B+W or another well known company and buy with confidence. Graham and his company isn't worth it.

 

[mnclayshooter]

Yikes, I Really didn't mean to poke the bear. But thanks to all for the continued responses. Mine should arrive today from one of our favorite NY addiction enablers. I will try to report back if I have success with them or not. Wish me luck.

 

[Ozarker]

I just wish I could afford on. Need one on my 135L real bad. B+W is out of the question right now. This thread has over 28,000 views. Amazing!

CFB... I have now heard first hand 3 similar issues from people at my studio. I had warned them about this thread when they first came out and they decided to buy anyway. One took almost 4 months to arrive with no response from the CR there. The other two had what looked like a issue with coatings and more issues even getting a replacement. The response from them is very odd for a company trying to get more business in a field that simply has too many good offerings to deal with BS.

Buy B+W or another well known company and buy with confidence. Graham and his company isn't worth it.

You are probably right. I've had no trouble with the B+W products I have.