Built in adapter?

[Pitbullo]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses? Compact cameras have "telescope" lenses that collapse into the camera when turned off, would this technology be possible to implement in a mirrorless camera? Would be great if we could mount an EF lens, and the camera would automatically adjust to the correct flange distance.

 

[Jim Saunders]

If it is a FF body sensor I can't see how it could have anything but an EF mount and the flange distance to match, but I could be entirely wrong there. An EOS-M with such a thing could be interesting, but it adds complexity (particularly regarding sealing) and undermines Canon's margin on those adapters they make.

Jim

 

[Marsu42]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses?

Surely they'll over some means of transition, or people are bound to take the opportunity and switch to another brand. However, with the film-lens distance ef is designed for, the adapter will be quite awkward esp. for smaller ef lenses and counteract the "small camera body" opportunity of mirrorless.

That's probably the reason why there isn't a ff mirrorless from Canon (yet) and their ef-m lens lineup isn't very large: They're still unsure which way to jump and if to produce a new ff mirrorless lens line.

 

[dppaskewitz]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses?

Surely they'll over some means of transition, or people are bound to take the opportunity and switch to another brand. However, with the film-lens distance ef is designed for, the adapter will be quite awkward esp. for smaller ef lenses and counteract the "small camera body" opportunity of mirrorless.

That's probably the reason why there isn't a ff mirrorless from Canon (yet) and their ef-m lens lineup isn't very large: They're still unsure which way to jump and if to produce a new ff mirrorless lens line.

As they did when transitioning from FD to EF? Just sayin'.

 

[Marsu42]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses?

Surely they'll over some means of transition

As they did when transitioning from FD to EF? Just sayin'.

But back in the days there wasn't such a worldwide base of ef gear sold and such big brand competition. I don't have the numbers, but after selling ef lenses for decades imho dumping them w/o means of adaption is something different. The "full frame" sensor format is proof they go to some lengths to keep this system alive.

Last not least, in the case of ef->ef-mirrorless it wouldn't be because of added functionality like fd->ef, but purely because the build factor changed. Hard to explain that w/o everybody suspecting simply money grabbing and driving the brand's reputation into the ground.

 

[Pitbullo]

Sorry for my late reply.
An adapter of this kind is reslly just an adjustable mount on the camera side, beinh able to increase distance between lens ansåd sensor. They should be able to seal it properly as well, I mean, they did develop nice technology as DPAF, a seal here should be a walk in the park.
The more I think of it, the more I am convinced that the idea is a good one.

 

[tiger82]

http://smile.amazon.com/Opticks-Treatise-Reflections-Refractions-Inflections-ebook/dp/B004TPNV1W/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-16&qid=1419113891

 

[Don Haines]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses?

Surely they'll over some means of transition, or people are bound to take the opportunity and switch to another brand. However, with the film-lens distance ef is designed for, the adapter will be quite awkward esp. for smaller ef lenses and counteract the "small camera body" opportunity of mirrorless.

That's probably the reason why there isn't a ff mirrorless from Canon (yet) and their ef-m lens lineup isn't very large: They're still unsure which way to jump and if to produce a new ff mirrorless lens line.

As they did when transitioning from FD to EF? Just sayin'.

FD was mechanical. EF was electronic. it was not practical to produce an adaptor.

 

[Don Haines]

who says they would change the mount distance for a FF mirrorless?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses? Compact cameras have "telescope" lenses that collapse into the camera when turned off, would this technology be possible to implement in a mirrorless camera? Would be great if we could mount an EF lens, and the camera would automatically adjust to the correct flange distance.

I'd not want a EF 600mm lens hanging from some sort of telescoping mechanism, it might last for 1 shot. I'm sure someone could design something, but I believe that any new lens mount would have to be larger than the EF mount. If smaller, it would block the image circle.

It does not sound practical on the surface, but it might be a way for Canon to design something that would not work with 3rd party lenses.

 

[Marsu42]

who says they would change the mount distance for a FF mirrorless?

You're proposing they're selling a 6d-size camera with just the phase af, mirror+metering removed? Sure it's a possibility, but on the long run they'll most likely want to make use of smaller cameras with ff iq.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

who says they would change the mount distance for a FF mirrorless?

You're proposing they're selling a 6d-size camera with just the phase af, mirror+metering removed? Sure it's a possibility, but on the long run they'll most likely want to make use of smaller cameras with ff iq.

There is a problem moving a FF lens closer to the sensor without losing IQ. you have to bend the light leaving the rear of the lens more, and that causes CA's and other distortions. Fixing the issue runs up the price and number of elements in a lens, or you make the corrections in software.

I'd be very happy with just pulling out the mirror, the pentaprism, and the sub mirror / AF module. Reliability would improve, and my existing lenses would work without a IQ hit.

I doubt that it will happen, that new lens mount that Canon patented a while back was developed for a reason.

 

[Marsu42]

who says they would change the mount distance for a FF mirrorless?

You're proposing they're selling a 6d-size camera with just the phase af, mirror+metering removed? Sure it's a possibility, but on the long run they'll most likely want to make use of smaller cameras with ff iq.

There is a problem moving a FF lens closer to the sensor without losing IQ.

This is just what I'm trying to say here, even if I obviously failed to do so ... if there's a mirrorless ff adapter, it'll basically mean putting the lens just where it is now with mirrored gear.

I doubt that it will happen, that new lens mount that Canon patented a while back was developed for a reason.

They did? I missed that, could you dig out the link and post it please?

 

[dgatwood]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses? Compact cameras have "telescope" lenses that collapse into the camera when turned off, would this technology be possible to implement in a mirrorless camera? Would be great if we could mount an EF lens, and the camera would automatically adjust to the correct flange distance.

I'd not want a EF 600mm lens hanging from some sort of telescoping mechanism, it might last for 1 shot. I'm sure someone could design something, but I believe that any new lens mount would have to be larger than the EF mount. If smaller, it would block the image circle.

As you move the mount closer to the sensor, it obscures less of the image circle, not more, so an EF-sized mount closer to the sensor would be sufficient.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

who says they would change the mount distance for a FF mirrorless?

You're proposing they're selling a 6d-size camera with just the phase af, mirror+metering removed? Sure it's a possibility, but on the long run they'll most likely want to make use of smaller cameras with ff iq.

There is a problem moving a FF lens closer to the sensor without losing IQ.

This is just what I'm trying to say here, even if I obviously failed to do so ... if there's a mirrorless ff adapter, it'll basically mean putting the lens just where it is now with mirrored gear.

I doubt that it will happen, that new lens mount that Canon patented a while back was developed for a reason.

They did? I missed that, could you dig out the link and post it please?

Here is one, perhaps what I remembered. It definitely discusses a new lens mount, and is about as close as Canon comes to saying it will happen. No patent though.

http://www.canonrumors.com/?s=new+canon+mount

Here is another.

http://www.dailycameranews.com/2013/03/canon-patent-for-new-lens-mount-type/

 

[Marsu42]

Here is one, perhaps what I remembered. It definitely discusses a new lens mount, and is about as close as Canon comes to saying it will happen. No patent though.

Thanks for the links! "Canon is exploring the possibility of a new lens mount" is what sounds plausible, esp. for the time it might take until they really release a new system. If they do it, they'd better deliver as much added value as possible (like the "block rotating elements" gimmick from the other link).

 

[moreorless]

You're proposing they're selling a 6d-size camera with just the phase af, mirror+metering removed? Sure it's a possibility, but on the long run they'll most likely want to make use of smaller cameras with ff iq.

That's assuming of course that reducing the flange distance would be the only size saving advantage of mirrorless. I would argue that when your dealing with a FF camera the reduced flange distance is less of an advantage than with APSC or m43. With those sensor sizes you dealing with much smaller lenses(and the user base generally will be after less ambitious lenses) so cutting down on the flange distance can produce quite a small overall package. With FF there will be very few lens options that can create a truly small overall package even with a reduced flange distance which will count for less relative to the larger size/length of the lenses involved.

I would say that potentially a more important size saving with a FF mirrorless system maybe the removal of the prism and AF sensor. In that respect the reverse is true compared to APSC and m43, your actually saving a lot more size/weight by removing a much larger prism with FF. Added to that as well of course Canon could produce a camera with duel mounts akin to the current EF-S one that takes both regular DSLR lenses and lenses where some of the optics push into the body of the camera.

Looking at Sony's problems with the FE lenses as well I would question whether very small flange distances are even a good idea. They've looked to try and tie together there FF and ASPC lens lineups but it might well be that the "ideal" FF mirrorless flange distance is more like 30mm meaning a good deal less size saving.

 

[Rocky]

Lens flange can be reduced to make a slimmer body. We still have the lens stick out. Therefore a slim body does not really makes the package smaller. On the other hand a shorter flange will give more freedom to the lens designer, especially for the wide angle lenses The EF and the EF_S lens is a good example. But we cannot over stress the advantage of the shorter flange either. The FF Leica M9 and the ME have a lens flange of 27.7mm. both need the micro lenses to be offset to get a more even exposure at the corner. After that, Leica have the software to give it a further improvement. Another interesting observation.the diagonal measurement of M9 and ME to the flange distance to is 1.57 while the EOS-M is 1.61. Is there a " magic number " somewhere??

 

[Pitbullo]

who says they would change the mount distance for a FF mirrorless?

Well, the EOS-M has a shorter distance, and every other manufacturer has (I think, dont quote me on this). And why wouldn´t they change it for a FF mirrorless? Imagine how hard they will shoot themselves in the foot if they dont. People using Sony can use pretty much any lens out there, should Canon users only have EF-lenses at their disposal? I dont think Canon will take that chance. Not a bit. Especially since their competitors are so good at other elements like EVF, image quality and now also Autofocus.

 

[Pitbullo]

If/when canon brings out a FF mirrorless, would it be possible to have a built in adapter for EF lenses? Compact cameras have "telescope" lenses that collapse into the camera when turned off, would this technology be possible to implement in a mirrorless camera? Would be great if we could mount an EF lens, and the camera would automatically adjust to the correct flange distance.

I'd not want a EF 600mm lens hanging from some sort of telescoping mechanism, it might last for 1 shot. I'm sure someone could design something, but I believe that any new lens mount would have to be larger than the EF mount. If smaller, it would block the image circle.

It does not sound practical on the surface, but it might be a way for Canon to design something that would not work with 3rd party lenses.

Perhaps a mirrorless with this built in is not for you then? Canon offers 3 FF dSLRs, I think they will offer more than one mirrorless when they launch their own system.
Or, mabye the mount could be solid, and the sensor could be moved instead? IBIS moves the sensor around, moving the sensor to increase or shorten the distance to the lens could be an option.