Canon 1D Mark IV or 1Dx?

[TexPhoto]

I wish the 1DX could change crop factor like Nikon.

+1

Why? There are only 3 positives I see to the variable crop factor.
1. Nikon cameras FF cameras can take crop lenses from Nikon. But Canon FF can take crop lenses from 3rd pard companies. Are there really any Canon crop lenses you need to have but can't replace with a Sigma, or Tokina?
2. You save space on the memory card. With 32,64, and 128GB cards under $100, is this really still an issue?
3. I don't have to crop as much in post. SO what, a little more work. What about the photos that are saved because your subject is off center and not cutoff by the frame?

Not trying to argue here, but I like the crop factor of cameras that cram more pixels into a smaller space when I need more reach fro a telephoto lens. But an 18MP 1DX photo cropped in software to Canon's 1.6X factor is a 7MP photo. Same in camera as if it was done in post. Only difference is in post I can move my 7MP around, or crop less or not at all.

If you are moving from crop to FF, losing a lens or 2 is a bitter pill to swallow, but hey.

 

[tiger82]

But I have the lenses (300 f/2.8 and 400 f/2.8 ) to shoot sports. My recommendation to you, based upon your lenses, would be to get the 1Dx. It fits both of what you need: low-light and sports. My worry is that you are missing a long lens now should you decide to amp up your sports shooting and do field sports. Otherwise, you would have sufficient lenses for indoors and the ISO performance, as well as superior tracking abilities. The 1D4 was not nearly as good as the 1Dx at ISO 6400 and we all know that can be a common ISO in tough lighting. I have a few basketball galleries, all shot at ISO 5000 on a 1Dx and every file is perfectly clean after applying only a 40 in NR setting LR. The 1D4 took more work, if it could be done. The 1Dx's AF system is noticeable "snappier" than the 1D4, and the 1D4 is in my opinion more accurate than the 5D3.

When I make the switch, I plan to limp along using my 200 f/2 with a 1.4xTC or 2.0x TC which should hopefully be fine on a 1Dx outdoors and stay with the 70-200 in arenas. It's a tradeoff between the best IQ and capturing the moment. The best lenses don't do me any good if I don't capture the right moment.

 

[ppix]

I wish the 1DX could change crop factor like Nikon.

+1

Why? There are only 3 positives I see to the variable crop factor.
1. Nikon cameras FF cameras can take crop lenses from Nikon. But Canon FF can take crop lenses from 3rd pard companies. Are there really any Canon crop lenses you need to have but can't replace with a Sigma, or Tokina?
2. You save space on the memory card. With 32,64, and 128GB cards under $100, is this really still an issue?
3. I don't have to crop as much in post. SO what, a little more work. What about the photos that are saved because your subject is off center and not cutoff by the frame?

Not trying to argue here, but I like the crop factor of cameras that cram more pixels into a smaller space when I need more reach fro a telephoto lens. But an 18MP 1DX photo cropped in software to Canon's 1.6X factor is a 7MP photo. Same in camera as if it was done in post. Only difference is in post I can move my 7MP around, or crop less or not at all.

If you are moving from crop to FF, losing a lens or 2 is a bitter pill to swallow, but hey.

My images go straight from the camera to my viewing stations to sell to my customers onsite. No post processing done at all, unless prints are bought. Digital sales are done onsite via USB flash drives. So getting it right in the camera is of paramount importance. Additional, selected images are sent straight to multiple 46" monitors, or at bigger competitions projected onto 20' screens on either side of the stage. Appropriately cropping in camera makes a much bigger impression on the customers when viewing on either the viewing stations or slideshow screens. With the Nikon bodies you can program a button to change crop mode on the fly. When I owned a D3S I learned how to do this as effectively as zooming the zoom ring.

Finally, I never shoot these events at full resolution or using RAW. With several shooters, shooting up to 600 competitors/day, we can easily take 100,000 images over a weekend. 8-12 megapixel is more than enough for what we need.

John

 

[verysimplejason]

I wish the 1DX could change crop factor like Nikon.

+1

You can just crop it in the post. It's almost the same to as what as Nikon FF does. APS-C on the other hand is different due to resolution.

 

[bdunbar79]

I wish the 1DX could change crop factor like Nikon.

+1

Why? There are only 3 positives I see to the variable crop factor.
1. Nikon cameras FF cameras can take crop lenses from Nikon. But Canon FF can take crop lenses from 3rd pard companies. Are there really any Canon crop lenses you need to have but can't replace with a Sigma, or Tokina?
2. You save space on the memory card. With 32,64, and 128GB cards under $100, is this really still an issue?
3. I don't have to crop as much in post. SO what, a little more work. What about the photos that are saved because your subject is off center and not cutoff by the frame?

Not trying to argue here, but I like the crop factor of cameras that cram more pixels into a smaller space when I need more reach fro a telephoto lens. But an 18MP 1DX photo cropped in software to Canon's 1.6X factor is a 7MP photo. Same in camera as if it was done in post. Only difference is in post I can move my 7MP around, or crop less or not at all.

If you are moving from crop to FF, losing a lens or 2 is a bitter pill to swallow, but hey.

My images go straight from the camera to my viewing stations to sell to my customers onsite. No post processing done at all, unless prints are bought. Digital sales are done onsite via USB flash drives. So getting it right in the camera is of paramount importance. Additional, selected images are sent straight to multiple 46" monitors, or at bigger competitions projected onto 20' screens on either side of the stage. Appropriately cropping in camera makes a much bigger impression on the customers when viewing on either the viewing stations or slideshow screens. With the Nikon bodies you can program a button to change crop mode on the fly. When I owned a D3S I learned how to do this as effectively as zooming the zoom ring.

Finally, I never shoot these events at full resolution or using RAW. With several shooters, shooting up to 600 competitors/day, we can easily take 100,000 images over a weekend. 8-12 megapixel is more than enough for what we need.

John

Canon doesn't offer in-cam cropping. So, this isn't helping at all. That's a really tough job, though, and I'm not envious of you. Even for bigger schools I shoot for I still get plenty of time to crop and pp.

 

[mackguyver]

Guys, while I understand that the cropping can be helpful on the Nikons, my understanding is that they created the DX mode so it would automatically turn on when a crop (DX) lens was mounted. Unlike Canon's EF-S lenses that can't be mounted on EF cameras, the Nikon DX lenses can be mounted on FX (full frame) bodies.

Canon's solution, in part, to the workflow issues has been the mRAW and sRAW files, along with multiple JPEG sizes and compression options.

Also, AlanF was right in saying that the increased MP of the 1D X over the Mk IV mean that after cropping, the 1D X files are just slightly smaller than the full IV files, meaning that the IV isn't really 1.3x more cropped.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

I'm still a newbie to the 1D club, but I think the firmware update resolved the 200 f/2 IS and 800 f/5.6 IS issues, so if johnf3f says his 800 works, the 200 should as well. Also, johnf3f, I miss the old menus as well, with the 5DIII being my first introduction to the new ones. You get used to them but it was nice to have all of the Cf in one place.

As for my 2 cents on this post, I absolutely love the 1D X but have many friends with the Mk IV who love that camera. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

I didn't realise there was an issue with the Canon 1DX and the Canon 800 F5.6. That's interesting as I have had some occasional anomalies with the IS on my 800. At the beginning of the year I turned the IS off and haven't missed it yet (faster AF). In fact I have now turned off the IS on all my lenses that have it and find them better/faster without it.
What I can say with certainty is that the IQ of the 1DX with my 800 is spot on even wide open and the AF is faster and more accurate than previously.

Although I have had the V2 firmware for a while now I have not yet found a need or want from the IS on my 800mm - frankly I would be happier without it. I must give it another try and see if the problem (?) is still there.

 

[Halfrack]

After reading his glass options, I'm thinking a single IV and a round of upgrades to his 24-70 and 70-200 IS, plus a 6D? Having 2 identical bodies makes moving between them much easier, but it seems that you're all over the board, and sinking your entire budget into a single X isn't going to solve all your issues at once.

Not that spending money isn't fun, but hitting these upgrades now would make adding a 1Dx in a year just that much stronger overall.

I thought I was clear that I need to shoot both indoor and outdoor action so upgrading lenses I already have and getting a 6D will not provide a solution. Thanks for your input and for everyone who stayed on topic, you gave me tremendous insight. Since I have a respite between fall sports and late fall dance performances, I can wait a bit for the purchase. I have 2 more CPS 1Dx loaners to cover anything that may come up that I can't cover with my 5D2 and 70D. I know I can't cover volleyball in the venues I shoot so I think I will opt for a 1Dx just before volleyball season starts. Hopefully, Canon will have made announcements before my next purchase and drive the price down. If the announcement means I wait for the new camera rather than the 1Dx, then I can rent as needed.

I'm sorry if you didn't read it that I started with getting a single IV - aka 1D mk4 - and spending the balance on the lens upgrades. You seem to be overtly demanding on the performance of the bodies, and getting an extra FPS or two seems to be critical. Might I recommend you consider the AF drive performance while tracking of your current lenses - a 1Dx may be held back by their af speed especially if it's looking for focus confirmation.

You're already talking about limping along with your 200/2 - outdoors, so I'd also point out you're better off with a 300/400 2.8 IS lens otherwise you lose any of that added fps.

I don't disagree that the 1Dx would be all that you want, but you came here looking for opinions, and my opinion is to get the 1D mk4 and upgrade your glass.

 

[Hannes]

Looking at UK prices you'd be able to get a used 1D4 and a 300/2.8 I for about the same money as a new 1DX

 

[Deleted member 7828]

General questions I have along the same line of the topic...

How about these two cameras (specifically a 1D IV) vs, say, a 7D? There's nothing like the 7D but on occasion I will find myself shooting at a poorly lit ice show and I find the 7D can really struggle in those conditions. Yet, I don't want to give up the reach it offers over FF (I'm willing to give up SOME quality for greater reach to put more pixels on the subject)...I'm part of that long line queuing up for a 7D II...sold my 60D thinking it would be out last year and since the 70D wasn't available in time, picked up a used 7D. Great drive, much faster but really had a tough time in the dimly-lit arena. I *could* get by with the 7D for this year but I find myself looking for alternatives.

Thoughts?

 

[Richard8971]

I know this is a little off topic but a good place to ask this. I have been wanting a 1D4 for quite some time but I don't know anyone personally who owns one to confirm or deny something that I have heard about the 1D4. I love the 1.6 crop and speed of my 7D, BUT I have talked to some online friends who own/have used the 1D4 and they swear it's a much better camera.

This is what I am trying to deny or confirm. I have heard the high ISO noise control of the 1D4 is horrible, no better than using a crop sensor. I cannot imagine this, because it IS a larger sensor than the 7D (or any other 1.6x crop sensor) and at 16MP (and being a 1.3x sensor) it's got larger pixels than most current crop sensors.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Now, granted, it may not be as good as a FF sensor nor am I expecting it to be. I was just hoping that the noise control would be better than that on my 7D.

Thanks!

D

 

[bdunbar79]

I know this is a little off topic but a good place to ask this. I have been wanting a 1D4 for quite some time but I don't know anyone personally who owns one to confirm or deny something that I have heard about the 1D4. I love the 1.6 crop and speed of my 7D, BUT I have talked to some online friends who own/have used the 1D4 and they swear it's a much better camera.

This is what I am trying to deny or confirm. I have heard the high ISO noise control of the 1D4 is horrible, no better than using a crop sensor. I cannot imagine this, because it IS a larger sensor than the 7D (or any other 1.6x crop sensor) and at 16MP (and being a 1.3x sensor) it's got larger pixels than most current crop sensors.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Now, granted, it may not be as good as a FF sensor nor am I expecting it to be. I was just hoping that the noise control would be better than that on my 7D.

Thanks!

D

I'm surprised at this question. The 1D4 smashes the living crap out of the 7D. And I have plenty of shots with the 1D4 at ISO 6400. Not as clean as the 1Dx, but cleaned up very nicely.

 

[Richard8971]

I'm surprised at this question. The 1D4 smashes the living crap out of the 7D. And I have plenty of shots with the 1D4 at ISO 6400. Not as clean as the 1Dx, but cleaned up very nicely.

Please don't be surprised at my question. I can only go off of the mountains of reviews I read on the internet as I don't have a 1D4 to compare my 7D too. I have READ from some people that the 1D4 sucks with high ISO noise control, but I couldn't believe it because of the physical makeup of the 1D4.

Thank you for taking the time to help me sort out my concerns. I believe the 1D4 will be a perfect upgrade to my 7D and I am seriously considering getting one.

D

 

[Kerry B]

I recently traded in my 7D for a mint 1D Mk1v and have not regretted for one moment. Noise control is probably as much as 2.5 stops better than the 7D. It is quicker has better IQ and handles brilliantly. Don't miss the 1.6 crop on the 7D, the APH sensor just rocks.

I also have the 5D MK111 and whilst the 1V cannot quite match the image quality it still delivers amazing images.

The 1v is used for wildlife whereas the 5d is used for landscape, perfect.

 

[verysimplejason]

I recently traded in my 7D for a mint 1D Mk1v and have not regretted for one moment. Noise control is probably as much as 2.5 stops better than the 7D. It is quicker has better IQ and handles brilliantly. Don't miss the 1.6 crop on the 7D, the APH sensor just rocks.

I also have the 5D MK111 and whilst the 1V cannot quite match the image quality it still delivers amazing images.

The 1v is used for wildlife whereas the 5d is used for landscape, perfect.

For landscape, why not 6D? ;D

 

[candyman]

I recently traded in my 7D for a mint 1D Mk1v and have not regretted for one moment. Noise control is probably as much as 2.5 stops better than the 7D. It is quicker has better IQ and handles brilliantly. Don't miss the 1.6 crop on the 7D, the APH sensor just rocks.

I also have the 5D MK111 and whilst the 1V cannot quite match the image quality it still delivers amazing images.

The 1v is used for wildlife whereas the 5d is used for landscape, perfect.

For landscape, why not 6D? ;D

I see the 5D MKIII as the advanced allround camera. Very good for different types of photography (portrait, landscape, sports - yes even sports) I use my 6D as light to carry camera for landscape, street- and indoor photography. And I see the 1Dx as the expert camera for BIF and Sports (of course can do all the rest very good as well)
Personally I was tempted to buy the 1D MKIV but from specs point of view - for me - less attractive
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-vs-Canon_EOS-1D_Mark_IV

 

[danski0224]

I know this is a little off topic but a good place to ask this. I have been wanting a 1D4 for quite some time but I don't know anyone personally who owns one to confirm or deny something that I have heard about the 1D4. I love the 1.6 crop and speed of my 7D, BUT I have talked to some online friends who own/have used the 1D4 and they swear it's a much better camera.

This is what I am trying to deny or confirm. I have heard the high ISO noise control of the 1D4 is horrible, no better than using a crop sensor. I cannot imagine this, because it IS a larger sensor than the 7D (or any other 1.6x crop sensor) and at 16MP (and being a 1.3x sensor) it's got larger pixels than most current crop sensors.

Can anyone shed some light on this? Now, granted, it may not be as good as a FF sensor nor am I expecting it to be. I was just hoping that the noise control would be better than that on my 7D.

Thanks!

D

The 1DIV is way better than the 7D in everyday use.

Yes, given ideal conditions/lighting, you may be able to stage a better image with a 7D. If those are the pictures you take, then get the 7D.

For everything else, the 1DIV will be a much better choice than the 7D.

There is another post in this thread from AlanF that provides some specifics about pixel size and crop ratio.

The 1DIV stands well with the current 5DIII and 1DX. Framing is different from APS-H to FF, but the image quality is very close. The 1DX is better at high ISO (6400+).

The current cameras work with the 600RT flash system fully with all Canon gear.

The 1DIV doesn't grab focus in "low light" as well as the 1DX and there are differences in viewfinder illumination.

The 7D has spot focus where the 1DIV does not- unless you have those big white lenses with the focus button on them.

There are other numerous differences between the different cameras.

There is something in 1D files that allows much more latitude in post than files from "lesser" bodies. I don't know what it is, but it is there.

If the 1DIV is in your budget, I think you'll be happy with one.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

Looking at UK prices you'd be able to get a used 1D4 and a 300/2.8 I for about the same money as a new 1DX

Where? A good, used, Canon 300 F2.8 L IS Mk1 is 3K+ a decent 1D4 is 1800+. That adds up to a lot more than my 1DX cost!

 

[bdunbar79]

Looking at UK prices you'd be able to get a used 1D4 and a 300/2.8 I for about the same money as a new 1DX

Where? A good, used, Canon 300 F2.8 L IS Mk1 is 3K+ a decent 1D4 is 1800+. That adds up to a lot more than my 1DX cost!

The cheapest 300 f/2.8L I IS lens right now is $4500. Cheapest 1D Mark IV I could find in decent shape was $3000. Assuming you could buy a used 1Dx for about $5400, you would still have $2k left.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

Looking at UK prices you'd be able to get a used 1D4 and a 300/2.8 I for about the same money as a new 1DX

Where? A good, used, Canon 300 F2.8 L IS Mk1 is 3K+ a decent 1D4 is 1800+. That adds up to a lot more than my 1DX cost!

The cheapest 300 f/2.8L I IS lens right now is $4500. Cheapest 1D Mark IV I could find in decent shape was $3000. Assuming you could buy a used 1Dx for about $5400, you would still have $2k left.

I should have said that those are UK prices. So a 300 F2.8 IS Mk1 + a used 1D4 would run around 4800 vs the 3600 that my 1DX cost new. The difference is about 1200 GBP/$2000 US so we are in the same ball park!