Canon 1DC is IDENTICAL to 1DX other than firmware

[GuyF]

Welcome to a capitalist society.

Here's how it works: get hold of some capital and do something so that it increases.

Want me to run over that one more time?

Every manufacturer on the planet probably does the same as Canon with some of their products. A while back a Sony repair engineer told me two of their TV models were identical apart from the more expensive one had the flag for Teletext enabled in it's firmware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext). Change the flag and charge £99 more.

The Rolls Royce Ghost uses the BMW 7-series chassis. The Aston Martin Cygnet is a re-badged Toyota IQ. The Sony 300mm f2.8 looks remarkably similar to the Canon 300mm f2.8 etc.

Canon are not unique.

 

[JasonATL]

Do you think those who paid $12,995 for a 1Dc are now happy in the knowledge that they bought a 1DX running a slightly modified OS?

Maybe. But perhaps those who bought a 1DX at half the price of a 1DC figure they got a bargain, by your reasoning. But, either way, this misses the entire point.

The price of a 1DX compared to a 1DC isn't the relevant comparison. At this time, I cannot buy a 1DX and get the capabilities of a 1DC. Canon sells hardware and software bundled together, not separately (yet). The relevant choices for someone who wants/needs the features of the 1DX are competitors to the 1DC. And this is the relevant benchmark by which Canon should price its products.

If you don't think one of Canon's products is worth its price. Don't buy it. Don't accuse them of immorality or a lack of ethics. And, for those who bemoan the capitalist system: Keep in mind that if it weren't for such a system, you wouldn't have the product development advances that this industry has experienced. Without a profit motive, there is no advancement of the technology. Some might say they agree with this and then try to claim that the profit Canon seeks is beyond "fair." The market (those who demand exchanging with those who supply) determines what is fair. Any profit beyond "fair" is not realized.

 

[Random Orbits]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

Another way to look at it is that the 4K market is poised to drop in price dramatically over the next few years. Would the 1DX be different if it didn't have the physical capability to support 4K? Probably, and it might have been a little less expensive to produce, but Canon saved a lot of R&D by having a platform that supported both the 1DX and 4K video. Canon isn't marketing the 1DC to photographers/small video outfits. It's charging what the market will bear. Early adopters pay the price premium -- what else is new?

However, if ML were able to crack the 1 DX, then the price will fall quickly. Or if more competitors entered the market at a lower price, then the price will fall also. But if the hardware is the same between the 1DC/1DX, then Canon can still make money by selling a 4K for $7k. Go competition and ML!

 

[marekjoz]

Do you think those who paid $12,995 for a 1Dc are now happy in the knowledge that they bought a 1DX running a slightly modified OS?

(...)The market (those who demand exchanging with those who supply) determines what is fair. Any profit beyond "fair" is not realized.

...untill there is a monopoly and the product is a must.

 

[Rat]

If you don't think one of Canon's products is worth its price. Don't buy it. Don't accuse them of immorality or a lack of ethics. And, for those who bemoan the capitalist system: Keep in mind that if it weren't for such a system, you wouldn't have the product development advances that this industry has experienced. Without a profit motive, there is no advancement of the technology. Some might say they agree with this and then try to claim that the profit Canon seeks is beyond "fair." The market (those who demand exchanging with those who supply) determines what is fair. Any profit beyond "fair" is not realized.

(1) there is no such thing as an absolute moral. Therefore, 'fair' does not exist. I know you know, I'm just hammering the point home.
(2) please stop making me understand the business ethics of Apple. I'd like to keep hating them.

 

[DB]

I have no problem with Canon charging $X for a product, but then charging $XX for a different model. You're right, we don't have to buy either of them. But what I do have a problem with is them admitting that the only difference between them is the software running on them, because no-one here condemns ML for hacking Canon's existing firmware in the 5DIII, 60D, 550D, and so on (or the hacked Panasonic GH2).

You cannot have it both ways. If you accept that Canon sells the 1Dc more because of the software, then it is okay for a 1DX owner to use different software on their camera to achieve the same result.

@K-Amps, I really hope that ML or someone else cracks the 1DX/1Dc firmware, so that people like you can film 4K footage on your 1DX, then playback on your new Sony 84" TV, whilst the rest of us can watch your uploaded YouTube videos @ 'Original' (YouTube compression) on our 1600 x 900 laptop screens and say....WOW 8)

 

[Viggo]

When people like this exist you can charge whatever for whatever...

First Look: iPhone 5

 

[Rat]

the rest of us can watch your uploaded YouTube videos @ 'Original' (YouTube compression) on our 1600 x 900 laptop screens and say....WOW 8)

You, sir, are an evil man

 

[DB]

This is the sort of thing competition is supposed to destroy in a capitalist system. The companies should be releasing the best products they can at a fair markup, not artificially segmenting markets and dribbling out capability when it suits them.

I hope today we all learned that capitalism doesn't advance anything but capitalists

One of my favourite Prof. J.K. Galbraith quotes:

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite"

But my most favourite of his quotations (and most relevant to this forum) is:

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof"

 

[bp]

Feeling enraged over something like this is understandable.

Feeling surprised, on the other hand.... welcome to the world.

Call a local bakery (like a private bakery type place, not a grocery store) and ask for a quote for a birthday cake to feed a party of 50. Now hang up and call them back a half hour later, and ask for a quote for a wedding cake to feed a party of 50.

 

[DB]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

...and yet another way of looking at it is, if ML crack the 1DX and enable 4K video recording, Canon may then be faced with the choice of either (a) reducing the price of the 1DC to $6995, or (b) raising the price of the 1DX to $12,995

 

[bvukich]

If it makes you feel any better... think of it as getting a 1DC with a couple of disabled features for half price.

 

[K-amps]

We all have our opinions; We have all ranted, ... Good for all of us!

 

[Marsu42]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

It's Canon, you know it!!

In Canon's defense, for once: For computer software (and the firmware is) it's absolutely normal to charge thousands of $$$ to enable additional features - esp. if it's expert software like CAD or 1dc video firmware. Even if the code would be in the firmware already but disabled doesn't mean everybody is free to use it, the manufacturer has to calculate a business model if he plans to ship different versions.

...and yet another way of looking at it is, if ML crack the 1DX and enable 4K video recording

ML never hacked or cracked anything (!!!), they only use firmware hooks Canon freely exposes though they are not documented. PLEASE don't spread wrong rumors, ml is not about torpedoing Canon's business model or camera lineup.

 

[DB]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

It's Canon, you know it!!

In Canon's defense, for once: For computer software (and the firmware is) it's absolutely normal to charge thousands of $$$ to enable additional features - esp. if it's expert software like CAD or 1dc video firmware. Even if the code would be in the firmware already but disabled doesn't mean everybody is free to use it, the manufacturer has to calculate a business model if he plans to ship different versions.

...and yet another way of looking at it is, if ML crack the 1DX and enable 4K video recording

ML never hacked or cracked anything (!!!), they only use firmware hooks Canon freely exposes though they are not documented. PLEASE don't spread wrong rumors, ml is not about torpedoing Canon's business model or camera lineup.

If Canon freely exposes, then why do Canon Europe say using ML will invalidate your Warranty?

 

[DB]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

Apple Inc. uses a 'walled-garden' (software term) for their App Store, but they allow developers to develop add-ons for their iPhone/iPod/iPad etc. So why don't Canon just license ML and split the firmware fee (royalty sharing like Apple who take 30%).

 

[Marsu42]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

If Canon freely exposes, then why do Canon Europe say using ML will invalidate your Warranty?

Source? From everything I've ever read Canon acknowledges users' rights to use firmware addons as long as they don't fry their cameras.

Concerning the hooks: Canon "exposes" them for internal debugging & development, ml simply uses them w/o explicit permission.

 

[DB]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

My canon authorized dealer in Dublin when I asked this week about my 7D (which is <1 year old), plus in the ML manual, the following:

"Canon support maintains that any upgrades to the software of the camera not performed by an authorized Canon Repair Facility or installed as directed by Canon, would void the warranty. Thus you should consider it likely that damage occuring to your camera while using Magic Lantern software would not be covered under your Warranty, should Canon challenge the Warranty on that basis. Whether or not their position would hold up legally, has not been tested."

Basically, you use ML at your own risk. I believe most Canon users already knew this to be the case.

 

[bbasiaga]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

Any software development types here that can give the masses an idea of how different the code would have to be to handle the 4K video stream? It seems like the general thought is that its easy/free to 'turn on' this feature, but I'm guessing there is more to it than that.

-Brian

 

[Marsu42]

Re: How canon charges 6000$ for firmware upgrade

"Canon support maintains that any upgrades to the software of the camera not performed by an authorized Canon Repair Facility or installed as directed by Canon, would void the warranty. Thus you should consider it likely that damage occuring to your camera while using Magic Lantern software would not be covered under your Warranty, should Canon challenge the Warranty on that basis. Whether or not their position would hold up legally, has not been tested."

This special case might not have been legally tested, but with a reason - Canon would most likely loose. The whole "unscrew anything and you void your warranty" fud is void at least in the EU, it has been established over and over that you don't void a warranty by using a product. And ml just installs just one flag in the firmware, that's it. Ok, frying your cpu with an alpha ml version might be a warranty problem - but *any* damage occurring while ml is installed is bs.