Canon 5D Mark II or a Real Video Camera?

[dave]

If you're doing any professional video I'd suggest getting a real video camera. I get frustrated with my attempts at non professional video on a DSLR. Poor focus control, poor live controls, poor viewing screen, poor audio control and input. If you're a poor indie filmmaker, or a Photog who wants occasional video it is nice, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Well you seem to forget that i also wanna shoot pictures.
Also, I don't really agree with you on certain points; tried 7D (latest firmware) + 5d2 (magic lantern 2.3 firmware) and i didn't notice any of those things you mention.

I also tried real video cameras such as Z7, it of course feels nice, but i always prefer the colors & the DOF on a DSLR.

The bottom line is that where conditions, type of footage required and ability to plan carefully are optimal it is going to be hard to replicate the sheer beauty of DSLR video footage on anything other than a really expensive camcorder.

The versatility and optimisation of a 'real' camcorder is simply not present on any DSLR (that I could afford).

Your post seems to imply that you think you can pull off the video that you require with a 5D2 and the accessories that you have. If that is the case, then it shoots great stills.

For me, if you ever want to shoot video of something fast moving the 5d2 is out. My focusing skills just aren't there.

So far, you have specified

1. a single device
2. to be used for stills and mostly interview video

So the relatively affordable options:

1. T4i - good compromise for video and stills, cash left for mics etc.
2. 7D - price has dropped, APS-C slightly safer for video depth of field, good build quality, focusing would be a challenge on anything moving during video.
3. 5D2 - best still images out of my options, most difficult to use for video (most likely to encounter a situation where it is simply not useable), great video quality under optimal conditions.
4. The best camcorder for the price that you want to pay that shoots good stills. My XF100 shoots rubbish stills, so I can't help you there.

At anything under $2000 you are not going to get, brilliant versatile video capabilities and top shelf still quality. And if you find it let me know. It still comes down to what will you do the most and what is most importnat that you get right.

From previous posts I am presuming you don't want to spend a bomb. What is the actual budget?

 

[paul13walnut5]

The trick to shooting moving subjects on dslr is to either:

Always use MF. I doubt the stm system is up to the job for professional / demanding use.

Set up so you are at right angles to movement rather than head on

If you must shoot head on then prefocus on a motivational point, let your subject come through the frame, drifting into sharp focus at the intended moment (corners are good, jumps are good, a particular framing say full height in frame etc)

Use a smaller aperture and / or wider angle to give you more latitude

If video is a primary use then consider dedicated video lenses, or at least mechanical lenses with hard focus ring stops such as samyangs or zeiss.

I dont attempt to track focus on my mf eng cameras and so wouldnt on my dslr.
Follow focus may be another solution but i'm personally not a fan, often choosing a dslr for its inconspicuous or portable form.

 

[l1nkje]

Thanks for all those replies guys, i really appreciate it.

For what that matter, i don't really have a budget. I mean, I waited so long to have a decent camera but let's say i'm about 4K, 4.5K euros at the moment (and maybe even more since i'm working way too much these days ^^).
So yeah, today i'm more thinking about a glidecam/5d2/DXA-5DA and 2 lenses + 1 lapel microphone (if that's the right term)

I never used the autofocus while using 7D/5D2, i never trused it and always did it manually. Was hard at the beginning, but the result was way better at the end.

Editing is what i do, and i can really work/edit on the image on a 5d2; colors are pretty awesome.

Any more ideas?

 

[paul13walnut5]

Cheaper body = more money for nice glass

F2.8 zoom combo great for video, sigma EX very good value, i.e. 70-200 f2.8 & 24-70 f2.8 for ff, 18-50 f2.8 for aps-c

Radio lav (sennheiser) and good rifle mic (rode ntg2 great value) + good headphones, senn hd-25 or hd-25-ii's

Sachtler Ace tripod (best performing ready to go solution for €€€)

Interfit super coolite softbox kit for beautiful interview set ups

Reflector for outdoors

Screw in glass nd filters. Nd2 nd8 nd16. Not faders.
Oh and a polariser.

 

[syder]

So yeah, today i'm more thinking about a glidecam/5d2/DXA-5DA and 2 lenses + 1 lapel microphone (if that's the right term)

Why the glidecam? It isn't that they aren't useful, just that steadicam footage is fairly niche and not that commonly used. A decent tripod + rig would be the goto camera support for most situations. I'd also think about getting a shotgun mic (something like a rode ntg-2 or sennheiser me66) to go with the lav mic.

 

[michaeleast]

I'd like to throw in another possibility that I don't think has been mentioned yet. The Canon 60D. Ok it's older than the T4i/650D, but it has a better viewfinder, top LCD & larger raw buffer for photography. Articulating screen like the T4i. Uses standard LP-E6 batteries that are interchangeable with 7D and 5D Mark 2 & 3 if you ever want to upgrade.

If you install Magic Lantern it will give you focus peaking and zebras that while not as good as a dedicated video camera, work surprisingly well in most situations. Magic Lantern also gives you the option to record the internal mic to one channel, and an external mic to the other. Which can be pretty useful for interviews, etc. You can't adjust analog gain levels independently per channel, only both at the same time, but the digital gain is adjustable on a per channel basis if needed. If your external mic has it's own gain controls this will probably not be an issue.

Magic Lantern hasn't been ported to the 650D, but hopefully will be in the future. You can't install Magic Lantern on the 7D, and it is unlikely that they will ever be able to port it to the 7D. So in my opinion the 60D is the best budget DSLR option.

 

[l1nkje]

Why the glidecam? It isn't that they aren't useful, just that steadicam footage is fairly niche and not that commonly used. A decent tripod + rig would be the goto camera support for most situations. I'd also think about getting a shotgun mic (something like a rode ntg-2 or sennheiser me66) to go with the lav mic.

Well, i deffo need a tripod obviously, but i'd like something to keep the cam steady so i can go with smooth shots ; it's not like i'm gonna carry my tripod and film at the same time (unless is really light!). Or a monopod maybe?

Also, i got the MKE-400 atm, so i guess i wouldn't get a shotgun mic at the moment.

What is a "Lav mic" ?

 

[paul13walnut5]

Lavalier mic, alternative name for a tie clip type mic.

The Sennheiser MKE would be ok for ambient run and gun sound, certainly a step up from the front mic if you add the rycote windjammer, but its not a close interview mic. You want an XLR mic with a balanced cable run to your camera.

I prefer rifle micing interviews, less issues with concealing mic, rustling of fabric or jangling of jewellery. Can also be properly windproofed for outdoor use. Windproofed lavs just look like a bee has landed on your subject.

I use a fig rig and a hague stabiliser.

 

[leGreve]

We really really need to grow out of this DSLR fetich. Yes, it was amazing to see what was suddenly possible. But the fact remains that the DSLRs are CRAP for proper video work. I can pick out a music video or a commercial 8 times out of 10 if they have been shot with a DSLR... because it looks like what it is. Bad cheap production value.

No short DoF can compensate for what is being churned out........

That is the reason I took the jump and moved on. The FS100 was the first stop... now the F3 is starting to look nice for those corporate jobs and in time the Alexa and F65 will look even nicer on a rental basis.

DSLRs have become the general toy of hopetimists and it's getting freaking boring to look at. A oh god I'm already fearing all the BS slowmo films that will be pouring out of every corner in the world over the next year or so.

Spend money on the proper tool for the job you're doing. If I haven't blown my load on the FS100, I'd upgrade my photo side of the business to a proper Phase One camera as well. There is very noticeable difference between shooting with a camera like that or a DSLR.

To be honest... the most optimal thing would be to throw all my money in optics and lights. Those are eternal and won't degrade as fast Canons "new one every year with 5% tech increase" camera policy.

I know this is hard to take for blinded Canon fan boys, but after having been one myself for so many years, I've finally started to seeing the light, and it's not shining on Canon and their consumer mentality.

 

[paul13walnut5]

@leGreve

Bad cheap production value.

Not the problem of the camera. It's only a tool. As are a lot of the folk who are using them.

How many crap films have been shot on panavision?

How many crap tv shows have been shot on digbeta?

I'm sure in time we'll see some dross from f65 users, with or without film school training and HMI lighting rigs.

DSLRs are a great tool at a great price, they are not the answer to every production scenario, but then I can't think of a camera that is.

It goes without saying that a production needs more than shallow Dof to be watchable, but it's also a very nice tool to have when applied properly.

Don't blame the tools for the silly kids on vimeo.

 

[dave]

We really really need to grow out of this DSLR fetich. Yes, it was amazing to see what was suddenly possible. But the fact remains that the DSLRs are CRAP for proper video work. I can pick out a music video or a commercial 8 times out of 10 if they have been shot with a DSLR... because it looks like what it is. Bad cheap production value.

No short DoF can compensate for what is being churned out........

That is the reason I took the jump and moved on. The FS100 was the first stop... now the F3 is starting to look nice for those corporate jobs and in time the Alexa and F65 will look even nicer on a rental basis.

DSLRs have become the general toy of hopetimists and it's getting freaking boring to look at. A oh god I'm already fearing all the BS slowmo films that will be pouring out of every corner in the world over the next year or so.

Spend money on the proper tool for the job you're doing. If I haven't blown my load on the FS100, I'd upgrade my photo side of the business to a proper Phase One camera as well. There is very noticeable difference between shooting with a camera like that or a DSLR.

To be honest... the most optimal thing would be to throw all my money in optics and lights. Those are eternal and won't degrade as fast Canons "new one every year with 5% tech increase" camera policy.

I know this is hard to take for blinded Canon fan boys, but after having been one myself for so many years, I've finally started to seeing the light, and it's not shining on Canon and their consumer mentality.

Nice, I haven't been to the headmaster's office for years. That all should help the OP, given that:

- according to the OP his 'job' or 'passion' is also stills
- the OP has not specified that he is doing commercials or music videos
- what's the budget of all that? As much as I'd love an F3 or an Alexa, my yearly PhD scholarship wouldn't even cover it. My video must be junk then. I don't know why I bother.

You are entitled to your opinion, but who are you actually trying to help with it?

 

[dshipley]

OP, to get the best possible answer you really need to let us know what your budget is and what exactly you need to buy in that budget (cameras, audio recorders, mics, tripods, and stabilizers have all been mentioned). Also, it would be helpful to know any equipment you currently do own (such as lenses, etc) as that could help us make even better suggestions.

 

[cinema-dslr]

You better get the vest+support arm with the glidecam +1500,-euro if you want to take shots longer than 30sec.

With your budget a decent camcorder is out of the question.
I would wait if the 7dmarkII is anounched or the "budget fullframe" they will likely offer the best and newest features for a around 2000,- priceticket.

 

[Marsu42]

If you install Magic Lantern it will give you focus peaking and zebras that while not as good as a dedicated video camera, work surprisingly well in most situations. Magic Lantern also gives you the option to record the internal mic to one channel, and an external mic to the other.

+1 ... Magic lantern has killer features esp. for video, don't forget about *hdr* video! The 5d3 improves on the aliasing problem, but other than that 5d2+ml should be a pro-level video solution if you are ok with mf and the handling of a camera w/o swivel screen that was basically designed for still shots.

 

[cliffwang]

+1 ... Magic lantern has killer features esp. for video, don't forget about *hdr* video! The 5d3 improves on the aliasing problem, but other than that 5d2+ml should be a pro-level video solution if you are ok with mf and the handling of a camera w/o swivel screen that was basically designed for still shots.

Do you know any free software to merge HDR video?

 

[paul13walnut5]

@cliffwang

Do you know any free software to merge HDR video?

No.

If you already have a half decent NLE you probably have the tools you need to merge different exposure layers (although I'm not sure that the HDR ML gives you is quite the same process as merging stills, I suspect it's already done in camera probably by making the most of the sensors dynamic range, but I don't use ML so what do I know...)

If you had say 3 identical video takes from a tripod with different exposures, then you could place each take in it's own video layer (v1, v2, v3) and either blend using different opacity levels, or composite using different modes (difference, exclusion, multiply, screen etc)

In stills mode the barrier to successful HDR is cloud, people or foilage movement, in video this would be 10 times worse, the only way I could imagine combating it to give you three seperate video expsosures would be to have the same footage pulled down at 3 different exposures, for depth of field parity and motion parity this would probably need to be 3 sensors set up around a prism, one chip at ISO 100, one at ISO 200, one at ISO 400 for example.

As such I really don't think the ML HDR mode will work like stills, it will be one file already processed, probably using selective clipping and crunching beyond the usual processed range.

Still HDR but not in the way stills guys are used to.

 

[Marsu42]

Do you know any free software to merge HDR video?

It's on the ml site somewhere - you can use a avisynth, but the quality might be a little less than commercial plugins.

(although I'm not sure that the HDR ML gives you is quite the same process as merging stills, I suspect it's already done in camera probably by making the most of the sensors dynamic range, but I don't use ML so what do I know...)

Indeed ... because video hdr in ml is *just* done as for stills: The framerate is doubled and every other picture is taken with a different exposure. In post both frames are merged using motion compensation, effectively nearly doubling the dynamic range. There are tutorial videos on vimeo, or watch this:

Magic Lantern HDR Video on Vimeo

 

[paul13walnut5]

How is the exposure changed? ISO ramping? So do you then shoot at 1/100th or is 1/50th still okay?

 

[paul13walnut5]

Also, does 50fps mean 720p, or does it mean reduced bitrate? Or both?

 

[Marsu42]

Also, does 50fps mean 720p, or does it mean reduced bitrate? Or both?

It's done by iso ramping, in the current release you manually configure the iso value for both frames. And yes, you got the catch, double framerate means no 1080p due to the fps requirement - you can manually configure the fps with ml, but the digic4 cameras are not fast enough for 1080p/60 or /50. And for 720p a 5d3 is better because of less aliasing, ml is currently ported for that target.