canon 5ds at www.imaging-resource.com

IMO the review should have been about landscape and architecture photos taken at low ISOs, which is the market the "R" is addressing. Instead we get closeups of jars and high ISOs. Plus it didn't tell us the lens they were using. That would have just a little impact on the comparisons being made, don't ya think?
 
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gsealy said:
IMO the review should have been about landscape and architecture photos taken at low ISOs, which is the market the "R" is addressing. Instead we get closeups of jars and high ISOs. Plus it didn't tell us the lens they were using. That would have just a little impact on the comparisons being made, don't ya think?

add to that the different perspective for each camera (some were wider than others) on that alone the Nikon looked worse (widest) and the pentax looked the best (narrower)
 
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raptor3x said:
gsealy said:
IMO the review should have been about landscape and architecture photos taken at low ISOs, which is the market the "R" is addressing. Instead we get closeups of jars and high ISOs. Plus it didn't tell us the lens they were using. That would have just a little impact on the comparisons being made, don't ya think?

Sigma 70mm macro at f/8.

That Sigma is one blisteringly sharp lens, sharper than the Canon 100L.
 
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The headshot photo of the lady as part of the official 5DS samples is pretty incredible. It is NEAR medium format quality. Real close in IQ, and for a lot of uses - I can see this camera being a poor man's medium format. Except, better AF, portability and other features. But those samples were at ISO 100 under absolute perfect conditions - which is studio conditions carefully setup by experienced pros. Hence, S for Studio. This is as good as that camera will ever get because that is what Canon themselves has chosen to be as images to show case what the camera is capable of.

However, the still life at higher ISO. Not so good. These aren't exactly envelope pushing ISO's here. And that was a shot done as a setup and in a deliberate way. Might not be absolutely ideal like the Canon samples, but it is a setup shot.

As far as noise is concerned - it does look pretty noisy. I don't care what it is, a brand new camera with new sensor of that price range being part of a pro or semi-pro line should be cleaner over ISO 400 than that camera is. The hope was they sacrificed higher ISO for cleaner low ISO. Not the case here.


More detail is great, if you can use it. Unfortunately, most people can't use it. This thing is for creating posters, billboards and murals. Pixel peepers will love it, but it doesn't appear to have the dynamic range or low noise they also demand for their PC-only viewing appreciation of images.

Canon has created a high resolution camera for studio use only. If it doesn't have better DR, landscape shooters won't want it. You must figure, while it has great detail - most cannot use that detail. The 36MP of Nikon is plenty of detail with more DR and less noise. 810 does ISO 64 also. Landscape win goes to 810.

To make matters worse, Nikon has a real crop mode - making the 810 more useful for other kinds of shooting. 5DS is not good on noise, and can't truly crop down. This limits it too much.

I understand the idea Canon is going with is to create specialty cameras. But if this thing is only good at ISO 100 and 200 under studio conditions, that's probably too specialized to be successful. The market for this camera is too small.

Canon is fortunate that Nikon has aging pro lenses. If Nikon would update their key pro lenses to sharpness and quality levels of Canon - combined with their 36MP sensor, they're going to really pull ahead of Canon. Right now, Nikon's lenses aren't able to make the best use of their sensors. There's a lot of room for improvement there. Nikon has a sort of quality "equity" just waiting to be tapped into.

But I digress, to get back on track -


It is appearing, at least initially, that these characteristics of its image quality are such that it is too specialized to be successful. It's one thing to geared toward a certain type of photography, and a whole other thing to be USELESS for other types of photography. Well, not really useless but definitely useless at the price point.

I think someone who buys this thing will want better quality and function for other uses too.


But perhaps Canon doesn't mind? They essentially just jammed 50MP into a 5D3. It might be their quick and dirty way to get back into the megapixel race, satisfy a demand for a lower cost studio only DSLR and that's it. It isn't as if they engineered a new camera from scratch. They scaled up the 7D2 sensor in a 5D3 body. This also serves to act as filler, showing they're releasing newer bodies. The criticisms of Canon being slow to release new bodies was really piling up.


I don't believe this camera will be successful. Aside from some pros who will use it, the prosumer/consumer market does indeed subsidize the existence of many of these DSLR's or at least keeps them within some realm of affordability. It is this market I don't see buying into the 5DS. I don't think that many people will really care about having 50MP and that kind of detail. Better DR and Noise performance with higher ISO is more important for more shooters than all out megapixel. These shooters who buy these cameras and make the sales numbers high enough for companies like Canon to even develop and sell these cameras. Even the most fanatical, pixel peeping nerds who buy this gear will admit they can't use the detail since they aren't printing


Feed the 5DS perfect studio quality lighting and it is a champion of DSLR image quality. Go outside of that, and it is overpriced and mediocre.


One positive is that the 5DS leaves enough holes and gaps, that it almost necessitates that the 5D4 will NOT be a specialist camera, but will be a do-all, multi-purpose pro DSLR. It they don't, Canon has surely surrendered being a leader in camera bodies and intends on riding the quality of their lenses instead. That is a bad idea, as at some point, Nikon will wake up and put out higher resolution 24-70, 70-200 and others. Then there is no reason to own a Canon except for ergonomics, and at that point - I think a lot of people will be able to overcome that and switch over.
 
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Lee Jay said:
dilbert said:
5Ds = full frame version of the 7D2.

You're wrong, as usual. If it were, I'd probably buy one.

5DS/R feels niche, and from what I have seen that is what they are marketing it towards... and; the niche users that we have heard from so far really like it ALOT.

its not a competitor or an upgrade to the 5DIII or a FF complement to the 7DII; its a different camera with totally different specifications geared towards studio and landscape professionals.
 
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TeT said:
Lee Jay said:
dilbert said:
5Ds = full frame version of the 7D2.

You're wrong, as usual. If it were, I'd probably buy one.

5DS/R feels niche, and from what I have seen that is what they are marketing it towards... and; the niche users that we have heard from so far really like it ALOT.

its not a competitor or an upgrade to the 5DIII or a FF complement to the 7DII; its a different camera with totally different specifications geared towards studio and landscape professionals.

Yes, which is why I'm not going to buy one.
 
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I think the 5DS holds its own but of course, there was no competing with MF.

Slightly disappointed with the high ISO, but it's not a surprise. That's the price paid for more resolution. However, this could be a phenomenal outdoors camera...
 
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K said:
It is appearing, at least initially, that these characteristics of its image quality are such that it is too specialized to be successful...

...I don't believe this camera will be successful. Aside from some pros who will use it, the prosumer/consumer market does indeed subsidize the existence of many of these DSLR's or at least keeps them within some realm of affordability. It is this market I don't see buying into the 5DS. I don't think that many people will really care about having 50MP and that kind of detail.

To be successful, a product must recover its costs and earn a profit for the company. Since we have no idea what the costs are for this camera and no one knows what its sales will be like, I don't know how anyone can predict whether or not the camera will be successful.

The 5Ds was never meant to be a mass market, general purpose camera. It's a niche camera for a niche market. Canon, like most companies, conducts extensive market research before releasing a product. If their market research showed it would not be profitable, they would not have taken it to market.

What we do know is that there is a substantial design overlap with the 5DIII, suggesting that Canon will have some savings in parts and manufacturing and probably some ability to adjust their production to reflect variations in demand. [/quote]

K said:
...it almost necessitates that the 5D4 will NOT be a specialist camera, but will be a do-all, multi-purpose pro DSLR.

Thanks Captain Obvious.
 
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K said:
This is as good as that camera will ever get because that is what Canon themselves has chosen to be as images to show case what the camera is capable of.

While the first half of your sentence may be correct, the reasoning is flimsy. Canon's sample images are, more often than not, underwhelming. Sometimes they don't even provide them. It's as if images are an afterthought in their marketing department, which is odd given their product line.
 
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3kramd5 said:
Lee Jay said:
3kramd5 said:
Canon's sample images are, more often than not, underwhelming.

The image being discussed is only the second image - ever - that Canon has provided that I thought was a pretty good example of the camera's performance.

I haven't bothered looking, but I'll take that as an agreement :P

Yes.

http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/01.jpg
 
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Real world samples up - knock yourself out:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-5ds-r/canon-5ds-rGALLERY.HTM

One thing is clear - this thing will demand the very best of lenses - even the very good 24-70 II is being pushed to its limits in some shots - and a good amount of stability too.
 
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CreationHeart said:
I think there's no comparison between 645z and 5DsR...dynamic range alone will win hands down.

I have a feeling that this 50MP 5DS will get obsolete or technologically surpassed by competition within a very short period of time. Not improving DR in high MP body is an epic fail.

I have a feeling that real photographers will make epic great photos with the 5DS, as they have with various current and past Canon cameras. "Not improving DR" hardly matters because the cameras provide plenty of DR for most uses. Canon surpasses the competition in significant other ways, but people who are DR-obsessed only notice DR.
 
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Lee Jay said:
3kramd5 said:
Lee Jay said:
3kramd5 said:
Canon's sample images are, more often than not, underwhelming.

The image being discussed is only the second image - ever - that Canon has provided that I thought was a pretty good example of the camera's performance.

I haven't bothered looking, but I'll take that as an agreement :P

Yes.

http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/01.jpg

Yah, that's more effort than I've seen them put into promo shots (well, those which aren't pictures of gear anyway).

Looks like a little back focus, but a lot of potential. I'm going to take delivery of my 5DS and put it through my own paces. If it meets my expectations of value, I'll keep it. If not, that's why I have a good relationship with a local shop :D
 
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