Canon 6D vs 5D MKII (Focusing?)

[Woody]

Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I don't think Roger Cicala was being consistent in the above article.

If we list the AF standard deviations of previous Canon cameras tested by Roger using the new 28 f/2.8 IS USM, this is what we get:

1DsIII 29
5D II 38.5
50D 34
7D 41
1DIV 22
60D 34
T3i 41
1Dx 17
5D III 17
T4i 29
6D 28

If we group them according to AF consistency of the center point, this is the result:
Tier 1: 1DX, 5D3... 1D4 trailing slightly
Tier 2: 6D, 1Ds3, T4i... 50D, 60D trailing slightly
Tier 3: 5D2, 7D, T3i

So, yes, the 6D beats out the 5D2 (and the 7D too... consistent with my experience).

 

[Marsu42]

I don't think Roger Cicala was being consistent in the above article.

I'm not saying that he is wrong (and the lineup seems logical), but he only used one lens and also was fairly quick with the 6d af test - more samples might have given another sd, because looking at the graph there are 1-2 shots very much out of bounds which have been non-representative. But the main point remains: Very usable (center only), better than 5d2, worse than 5d3.

 

[verysimplejason]

Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I don't think Roger Cicala was being consistent in the above article.

If we list the AF standard deviations of previous Canon cameras tested by Roger using the new 28 f/2.8 IS USM, this is what we get:

1DsIII 29
5D II 38.5
50D 34
7D 41
1DIV 22
60D 34
T3i 41
1Dx 17
5D III 17
T4i 29
6D 28

If we group them according to AF consistency of the center point, this is the result:
Tier 1: 1DX, 5D3... 1D4 trailing slightly
Tier 2: 6D, 1Ds3, T4i... 50D, 60D trailing slightly
Tier 3: 5D2, 7D, T3i

So, yes, the 6D beats out the 5D2 (and the 7D too... consistent with my experience).

I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.

On December 1, 2012 at 6:55 AM
LensRentals Employee
Roger Cicala said:

Ralph, I guess I was writing from the ‘is the 6D as good as the 5D III. The standard deviation the 5DIII and 1Dx were in the teens, which is exactly where live view or careful manual focusing is.

The 6D at 29 is actually almost exactly the same as the T4i, so it’s not as good as Live View. But it is better than the 5D II and other older cameras.

And, of course, with most of the lenses in the lineup the difference doesn’t show up, only the newer lenses are capable of the more accurate AF.

 

[Woody]

I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.

Thanks for pointing that out. Anyway, I am happy as long as 6D single shot, center point AF consistency is better than 7D. The latter drove me crazy with its inconsistent single shot AF performance.

 

[verysimplejason]

I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.

Thanks for pointing that out. Anyway, I am happy as long as 6D single shot, center point AF consistency is better than 7D. The latter drove me crazy with its inconsistent single shot AF performance.

me too! as much as I love my 500D, switching to a 6D is sweet. I just need to brace myself till next year. I don't want to be an early adopter. ;D I need to convince myself that I need to wait a little bit more just like what I did with my 500D. I'm really tempted so much already. I've got to focus on my new lighting equipment instead...

 

[hemidesign]

Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I don't think Roger Cicala was being consistent in the above article.

If we list the AF standard deviations of previous Canon cameras tested by Roger using the new 28 f/2.8 IS USM, this is what we get:

1DsIII 29
5D II 38.5
50D 34
7D 41
1DIV 22
60D 34
T3i 41
1Dx 17
5D III 17
T4i 29
6D 28

If we group them according to AF consistency of the center point, this is the result:
Tier 1: 1DX, 5D3... 1D4 trailing slightly
Tier 2: 6D, 1Ds3, T4i... 50D, 60D trailing slightly
Tier 3: 5D2, 7D, T3i

So, yes, the 6D beats out the 5D2 (and the 7D too... consistent with my experience).

I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.

On December 1, 2012 at 6:55 AM
LensRentals Employee
Roger Cicala said:

Ralph, I guess I was writing from the ‘is the 6D as good as the 5D III. The standard deviation the 5DIII and 1Dx were in the teens, which is exactly where live view or careful manual focusing is.

The 6D at 29 is actually almost exactly the same as the T4i, so it’s not as good as Live View. But it is better than the 5D II and other older cameras.

And, of course, with most of the lenses in the lineup the difference doesn’t show up, only the newer lenses are capable of the more accurate AF.

I was right... I did so many test from both cameras, 6D is a phenomenal camera..
Another thing, the ISO from 6D in 6400, looks like the 5Dmk2 in 1600... YES.. my numbers were right!
I'll post some photos later for comparison...

 

[wickidwombat]

outer points anyone? vs the 5Dmk2 outer points

 

[Area256]

Keep in mind that the 5D2 center point will only be cross type with f/2.8 and faster lenses, otherwise it's just a horizontal line sensor. With the 6D you get cross type at f/5.6 and faster, and improved accuracy at f/2.8 on the vertical line sensor. That to me will be the biggest difference between the 5D2 and the 6D, since I have a lot of f/4 glass, and I'd like to have a cross type point for those lenses.

Also I think the f/5.6 type AF points tend to be faster than f/2.8 points for getting the focus into the right general area, so even if you had an f/2.8 lens on the 5D2 and only hit vertical contrast it would in theory be slower than the 6D will be - which can use the f/5.6 to get focus into the right zone, and use the f/2.8 to fine tune.

Also into the realm of speculation looking at the AF diagrams on the Canon website, the AF points on the 5D2 don't seem to extend out from the focus squares as much as the ones on the 6D. Although I could just be reading things into the diagram...

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

I now own all three cameras, the 5DIII, 5Dii, and 6D.

The 6D's optical focusing system is significantly better than the 5Dii's, but it the 5DIII is ridiculously good. Even the outer points did very, very well in my first tests. Will try to do some low light testing on the 6D tomorrow.

5DIII > 6D > 5Dii

Let me know if you guys have anything specific you want me to test out!

MM

 

[brianleighty]

My final words are.. the center point from the Canon 6D might be better for accuracy from any Canon camera ever build.. believe me, this thing is very powerful..

Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

Some others have already commented but I thought I'd also point out that Roger wasn't really testing for AF accuracy on it's own, this article is related to all the previous ones where he's comparing contrast live view focusing vs phase detection AF. Even the lowest level 6D shot is still obviously very much in focus. It just isn't "perfect". So the real answer is without further testing this test doesn't prove anything other than the 5D mark III and 1DX do better with newer lenses than the 6D which isn't that huge a deal. What needs to be tested is how the camera handles in low light and low contrast situations. I look forward to hearing more about this.

 

[Chosenbydestiny]

Anything is better than 5D mark I and II outer points.... seriously. If the 6D can focus outer points accurately in decent lighting for portraits (like wide open portraits 2.8 and faster) then I'd be more than happy to pick one up as well.

 

[M.ST]

Re to: In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I am not impressed from the 6D AF-system and can confirm the test.

It´s only a little bit better then the 5D Mark II AF-system.

 

[verysimplejason]

Re to: In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I am not impressed from the 6D AF-system and can confirm the test.

It´s only a little bit better then the 5D Mark II AF-system.

There's always a 5D Mark III or 1DX for you. 5D3 is getting cheaper now. I guess Canon can't please everybody. For me, 6D AF is enough as I'm not into sports or anything fast. The overall better center point is more than enough for my needs. All I'm after is IQ which if we rely on some feedback, is already better than 5D3. (I want to prove it myself though.) You can also wait for 7D2 with its better AF. If you're still not satisfied, then I suggest you look into other systems such as Nikon or Sony If you're invested in lenses, I think you'll lose something if you go from one system to another but that's the harsh reality. But don't worry, I know Canon lenses holds their value well. As photographers, let's not limit ourselves with the tools you use. Let creativity be the only thing that limits us but again, that can also be learned as long as you're willing to work.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

I now own all three cameras, the 5DIII, 5Dii, and 6D.

The 6D's optical focusing system is significantly better than the 5Dii's, but it the 5DIII is ridiculously good. Even the outer points did very, very well in my first tests. Will try to do some low light testing on the 6D tomorrow.

5DIII > 6D > 5Dii

Let me know if you guys have anything specific you want me to test out!

MM

Hey michael, watched you video on the wifi app. I like it, and yeah, that would be a game changer for many things (On that front, I tinker about for fun with night time long exposures, does the app work with bulb mode?)


On a working level though, I shoot weddings and portraits and am seriously considering this as a secondary body (I'd probably use it for mostly wide angle work, using either my 16-35 or 24-70 on it, and leave the long end to the mk3). My worries about IQ seem to be satisfied, but the AF system Still waiting to hear more, some kind of word on how the outer points work in lower light. My potential secondary bodies were - 5d2, 1dmk4, 5d3, or 6d. The high ISO capabilities of the 6d (at least what i have seen and read so far) takes the 5d2 off the list. 1d4, great camera, but i don't really need the fps (it is a nice idea, but if i drop 3k+ my money is probably better spent on a second mk3. So that leaves mk3 and 6d. So, anything you or anyone else might be able to say on the AF system would rock, as it's really the only factor I see at this point that may stop me from snagging one.

 

[skitron]

Re to: In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I am not impressed from the 6D AF-system and can confirm the test.

It´s only a little bit better then the 5D Mark II AF-system.

Personally, I found the 5D2 center point AF accurate enough for my needs. The issues with it were (1) it wasn't very fast and (2) it didn't work so well in low light.

My understanding is the 6D center point fixes these two issues.

Still nothing to get very excited about, but it would at least make it adequate for my purposes.

And if this is not the case, I guarantee mine will get boxed right back up and shipped back where it came from when it shows up Friday.

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

@ Chuck- I am doing some low light focusing testing today and will verify what you are asking. My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft") and low light focusing, which as you know will be fantastic for shooting receptions and low light events. Ill post the info as soon as my tests are done, should be later today or tomorrow.

If anyone else wants any comparisons done let me know, I have a 5Dii, 5Diii, & Nikon D600.

M

 

[Marsu42]

My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft")

I guess we'll have good af reviews shortly from the usual suspects (dpreview announced a 6d-d600 shootout).

But one thing missed in the "pro" reviews until now is that the higher iso capability of the 6d may be partly due to in-camera chroma nr even in the raw files, resulting in the softer images. The samples I saw are not conclusive, but if you happen to shoot any fine patterns it would be interesting what you think about it.

 

[PhotoCat]

@ Chuck- I am doing some low light focusing testing today and will verify what you are asking. My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft") and low light focusing, which as you know will be fantastic for shooting receptions and low light events. Ill post the info as soon as my tests are done, should be later today or tomorrow.

If anyone else wants any comparisons done let me know, I have a 5Dii, 5Diii, & Nikon D600.

M

Hi Michael, thanks for the effort!

It would be interesting to compare AI-Servo accuracy with the centre AF point between all 3 cameras.

Also repeating the AI-Servo test with the top-most AF point in portrait orientation would be very interesting.

I guess the test condition would be similar to shooting a wedding processional in a church

Thanks!

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

@ Chuck- I am doing some low light focusing testing today and will verify what you are asking. My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft") and low light focusing, which as you know will be fantastic for shooting receptions and low light events. Ill post the info as soon as my tests are done, should be later today or tomorrow.

If anyone else wants any comparisons done let me know, I have a 5Dii, 5Diii, & Nikon D600.

M

TY!

 

[skitron]

My 6D shows tomorrow and I'll do some testing and post. One thing I will test for that I haven't seen elsewhere is the "in focus range size".

Here's what I mean... When testing my 50D and 5D2 I found an interesting phenomenon when trying to dial in the AFMA for an autofocus confirm chip on my manual focus Rokinon aka Samyang 35mm (nice lens BTW). It mattered whether I was focusing from infinity to closer in, or from close in to further out when shooting a test target at a fixed distance.

My first thought was "well, we just discovered the 'cheap' part of this lens" and the first thought was there is play in the internal workings of the lens. But upon digging in a bit more, I discovered this phenomenon was very pronounced on the 50D and much less so on the 5D2.

So then I start thinking it has something to do with the body rather than the lens. So I test the 100L and get essentially the same results manually focusing it while using AF confirm. The conclusion being it is in fact an issue with the bodies and not the lenses.

While using manual focus plus AF confirm with either lens, I was able to determine the 50D had a fairly significant range of focus in which it would confirm with a beep and a red indicator. Meaning if I slowly focused from infinity 'inward', it would confirm (after best effort AFMA adjustment) while about 4 'AFMA clicks' back focused. And if I slowly focused from min to 'outward' it would confirm about 3 'AFMA clicks' front focused. And this was true with either the Rokinon or the 100L on the 50D.

So same test on the 5D2 and the "range of in focus" was probably 1/4 that of the 50D (a good thing). Which explained alot of unpleasant things I experienced shooting the 50D at very shallow DOF (hit, miss, hit, miss)...

So anyway, I'll do the same test on 6D and post results.