Canon 80D RAW files available for download. DR improved.

[arbitrage]

I've preordered an 80D to either work along side my 7D2 or possibly replace it. I'm hoping for a more stable AF system than the erratic 7D2....something consistent like my 1DX AF would be welcomed. But the main reason I ordered one is to shoot from my kayak with 100-400II+1.4TCIII and have 27AF points to compose with instead of just the centre point. The ability to use Zone mode with 27 points at f/8 will be an improvement for my shooting from kayak.

I wish the 27 f/8 points worked with more lens/TC combos....seems strange that the 200-400 +2x works but not the f/4 primes + 2xTC. Must be something with the zooms and the way they pass light. I rarely use the 2x on my 200-400 and much prefer using the internal 1.4 combined with external 1.4 to have more flexibility (280-800 f/5.6-f/8) than being forced to stay at 400-800 f/8.

Seeing that the sensor has been improved is a plus but not something that my purchase was based on. I did compare the ISO 1600-6400 80D vs 7D2 IR files in LR and pushing the shadows the 7D2 shows a lot of purple and greens in the blacks where as the 80D is free of weird colours.

 

[AlanF]

I've preordered an 80D to either work along side my 7D2 or possibly replace it. I'm hoping for a more stable AF system than the erratic 7D2....something consistent like my 1DX AF would be welcomed. But the main reason I ordered one is to shoot from my kayak with 100-400II+1.4TCIII and have 27AF points to compose with instead of just the centre point. The ability to use Zone mode with 27 points at f/8 will be an improvement for my shooting from kayak.

I wish the 27 f/8 points worked with more lens/TC combos....seems strange that the 200-400 +2x works but not the f/4 primes + 2xTC. Must be something with the zooms and the way they pass light. I rarely use the 2x on my 200-400 and much prefer using the internal 1.4 combined with external 1.4 to have more flexibility (280-800 f/5.6-f/8) than being forced to stay at 400-800 f/8.

Seeing that the sensor has been improved is a plus but not something that my purchase was based on. I did compare the ISO 1600-6400 80D vs 7D2 IR files in LR and pushing the shadows the 7D2 shows a lot of purple and greens in the blacks where as the 80D is free of weird colours.

Why not just use use the 100-400 II without the TC then? I find the extra reach you get with the TC mostly not crucial and the extra stop and wider field of view frequently much more useful. When I have been in boats etc that are rocking the wider field of view and less movement of 400mm vs 560mm much more useful as also for birds in flight.

 

[niels123]

Is the sensor different from the sensor in the 750D (Rebel T6i)?

 

[Sharlin]

Is the sensor different from the sensor in the 750D (Rebel T6i)?

Yes, obviously. That's what this whole thread is about. Besides, it was known to be a different sensor from the beginning, simply because it has Dual Pixel AF and the 750D doesn't.

 

[AlanF]

If you shoot at ISO 100-200, then the extra DR may be of use. But, I am nearly always at ISO 640 for high shutter speeds or for dimly lit birds and the DR and S/N are similar for most sensors of the same size as photon noise dominates, not circuitry. If Canon had introduced a sensor without the low-pass filter, I would have pre-ordered the 80D. There are now several careful studies, including measurements by Lensrentals, that show you get a 10% increase in resolution or sharpness going from the 5DS to the 5DS R. Two days ago, the combination of a very large discount and a £250 cashback from Canon spurred me into buying the 5DS R. It arrived yesterday morning. I would have preferred an APS-C but I have given up waiting for Canon to make one without the blurring low pass filter.

 

[pj1974]

I've been quite interested in the 80D since it's announcement (actually, slightly before the announcement... when I saw the CR2 specs).

I have a 7D, and the 80D could potentially be a replacement / my next camera (depends on several factors though). The 80D is a very well rounded, capable camera.

What is important to realise is that the 7Dii is likely to be superior for fast moving subjects. Not just probably the difference in FPS (10 vs 7), but the fact that the extra sensor helps AI Servo AF at that speed.

On page 138 of the 80D manual it states this KEY bit of information, that few people have picked up on:
"During Live View shooting, or when (Servo AF) is set, the maximum speed will be max. approx 5.0 shots / sec

This appears to indicate that the 80D can shoot at 7FPS, but can not continuously AF at that speed. Maximum for continuous AF (Servo AF) is 5FPS. I know from experience, the difference between 5FPS and 7FPS and 10FPS is noticable, and can make a significant difference, depending one is trying to photograph.

I must say, for MOST of my purposes, 5FPS is sufficient, though there are times that I need higher FPS (with continual AF) - e.g. wildlife, some sports, etc. For most people though 5FPS will be sufficient for all their photography (it takes quite a bit of skill to track a fast moving subject at 10FPS).

Being able to have continual AF in Live View at 5FPS is particularly impressive, in my humble opinion. Well done, Canon with the 80D.

Regards,

Paul

 

[Diltiazem]

I've been quite interested in the 80D since it's announcement (actually, slightly before the announcement... when I saw the CR2 specs).

I have a 7D, and the 80D could potentially be a replacement / my next camera (depends on several factors though). The 80D is a very well rounded, capable camera.

What is important to realise is that the 7Dii is likely to be superior for fast moving subjects. Not just probably the difference in FPS (10 vs 7), but the fact that the extra sensor helps AI Servo AF at that speed.

On page 138 of the 80D manual it states this KEY bit of information, that few people have picked up on:
"During Live View shooting, or when (Servo AF) is set, the maximum speed will be max. approx 5.0 shots / sec

This appears to indicate that the 80D can shoot at 7FPS, but can not continuously AF at that speed. Maximum for continuous AF (Servo AF) is 5FPS. I know from experience, the difference between 5FPS and 7FPS and 10FPS is noticable, and can make a significant difference, depending one is trying to photograph.

I must say, for MOST of my purposes, 5FPS is sufficient, though there are times that I need higher FPS (with continual AF) - e.g. wildlife, some sports, etc. For most people though 5FPS will be sufficient for all their photography (it takes quite a bit of skill to track a fast moving subject at 10FPS).

Being able to have continual AF in Live View at 5FPS is particularly impressive, in my humble opinion. Well done, Canon with the 80D.

Regards,

Paul

I think you misunderstood. Read page 98 again.

 

[nhz]

I think you mean to say that DXO will soon have a blog post up saying that they've lost their test results and will work "very hard" to find them

Nah, the 80D sensor is improved significantly from older generation Canon sensors, but is still a far cry from what is demonstrated in D7200.

The D7200 has a very impressive sensor for a crop.

However, Canon EF-S zooms are better than Nikon DX zooms by quite a bit, more than making up for the weaker sensor leading to better Canon IQ. Nikon DX primes are good though.

Good point, however in reality IMHO Canon has only a few APS-C consumer zooms (the STM series) that offer very good quality for the money (and for the size/weight). Those are great for e.g. travel or general use but probably not ideal for the average 80D or 7D2 user as they are relatively slow; they are more in line with the SL1 and Rebel bodies.

There are a few higher quality (also heavier and more expensive) APS-C lenses like the 17-55IS and 15-85IS but especially for the last one I doubt it will do the current 24MP sensors justice. The new Nikon 16-80VR seems to be a step above the 15-85 in IQ, at least if you get a good one ;-)

For both Canon and Nikon APS-C there is no high quality APS-C SWA prime or bright WA zoom and one has to use third party options like Sigma 1.8/18-35. Maybe they assume that cameras like 80D/7D2 and d7200/D500 are primarily used with tele lenses (sports, wildlife etc.), where both companies offer lots of good quality glass. Will be interesting to see if Nikon and Canon do something about the lack of APS-C 'pro' lenses in the WA-normal range. Maybe they are happy with more demanding customers buying a FF body to cover the WA range ;-(

 

[nhz]

The 80D is shaping up to be a serious enthusiast camera. As I've said in past posts, this now means the 7D2 is about only three things:

1. Build / Weather Sealing
2. FPS
3. Dual Slots

All of which applies more to pros or those with great demands.

My thoughts pretty much. Even the sealing on the 80D is probably going to be enough for almost anybody - Canon claims the 70D is already as well sealed as the very well regarded original 7D was. (Of course, it is well-known that the 7D2 sealing is in a different class altogether!)

The D500 looks like even more a mini-D5 than the 7D2 like a mini-1DX. Looks like Canon and Nikon both figure that with modern technology, there's market for an actual pro crop body. I speculate any future 7D3 will look quite a bit like the 1DX2, tech-wise.

It also makes sense to move up with the more pro models in spec/quality and price because of the decline of DSLR sales. Keeping the DSLR market alive will mean more expensive cameras and they have to make sure those cameras are attractive enough for upgrading. Both Canon and Nikon have apparently decided that there is still money in 'pro' APS-C cameras.

I don't need any of the three 7D2 points mentioned above. Although the 7D2 is not my taste (prefer 80D instead) I'm considering the D500 because they 'pulled out all the stops' and put so many great features and technologies into that body. Even if I don't really need everything they put inside, it still looks like good value for money and the extras might be nice in future. The 80D on the other hand, although much cheaper, seems a lot less 'value for money' to me ;-(

 

[anders]

On page 138 of the 80D manual it states this KEY bit of information, that few people have picked up on:
"During Live View shooting, or when (Servo AF) is set, the maximum speed will be max. approx 5.0 shots / sec





Regards,

Paul

I think you misunderstood. Read page 98 again.

I don't think this make sense:

Page 98:
"The default setting is <o> (High-speed continuous shooting*). When you want to take the picture, press the shutter button completely. If you hold down the shutter button, you can shoot continuously while maintaining autofocusing to capture changes in the subject’s movement.
* Viewfinder shooting: max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec., Live View shooting: max.
approx. 5.0 shots/sec.."

and

Page 138:
"High-speed continuous shooting (Max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec.*) While you hold down the shutter button completely, the camera will shoot continuously.
* During Live View shooting or when [Servo AF] is set, the maximum
speed will be max. approx. 5.0 shots/sec."

 

[Sharlin]

I don't think this make sense:

Page 98:
"The default setting is <o> (High-speed continuous shooting*). When you want to take the picture, press the shutter button completely. If you hold down the shutter button, you can shoot continuously while maintaining autofocusing to capture changes in the subject’s movement.
* Viewfinder shooting: max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec., Live View shooting: max.
approx. 5.0 shots/sec.."

and

Page 138:
"High-speed continuous shooting (Max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec.*) While you hold down the shutter button completely, the camera will shoot continuously.
* During Live View shooting or when [Servo AF] is set, the maximum
speed will be max. approx. 5.0 shots/sec."

Plus in the p. 139 blue box:

"In AI Servo AF operation, the continuous shooting speed may become slightly slower depending on the subject and lens used." (emphasis mine)

I'm inclined to believe page 138 is in error, especially as it uses the weird phrase "[Servo AF]" when otherwise the manual consistently uses the proper term "AI Servo AF".

 

[Khufu]

I don't think this make sense:

Page 98:
"The default setting is <o> (High-speed continuous shooting*). When you want to take the picture, press the shutter button completely. If you hold down the shutter button, you can shoot continuously while maintaining autofocusing to capture changes in the subject’s movement.
* Viewfinder shooting: max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec., Live View shooting: max.
approx. 5.0 shots/sec.."

and

Page 138:
"High-speed continuous shooting (Max. approx. 7.0 shots/sec.*) While you hold down the shutter button completely, the camera will shoot continuously.
* During Live View shooting or when [Servo AF] is set, the maximum
speed will be max. approx. 5.0 shots/sec."

Plus in the p. 139 blue box:

"In AI Servo AF operation, the continuous shooting speed may become slightly slower depending on the subject and lens used." (emphasis mine)

I'm inclined to believe page 138 is in error, especially as it uses the weird phrase "[Servo AF]" when otherwise the manual consistently uses the proper term "AI Servo AF".

Is " Servo AF" possibly referring to the mirror-slappy AF mode, where you're using Live View but raising the mirror to utilise the AF sensor rather than the DPAF?... I'm thinking the similarity of the terms has maybe just been naively overlooked in translation...

 

[pj1974]

Hi all...

Thanks for your posts following up what I wrote about on the top of this page (page 4).

It could be that page 138 contains an error (typo or translation). I'm not ruling that out.

However because that page gives the most 'detailed' description of how AI Servo AF is used, (continual AF while the camera is also shooting at 'maximum' FPS) I tend to think this page describes how I would AF in those cases.

The words used on page 98 are more ambiguous (can the 80D continue to do AF AND shoot at 7fps, or does the processing of images from sensor to card, slow 'continual' AF + FPS? Whereas, maybe the 80 can 'continually AF track' until the mirror starts moving and then it slows down...?

I look forward to reading both pro reviews and user reports about this - as well as trying it myself (indications are that the 80D should be in local stores in my city soon).

Regards

Paul 8)

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Has there ever been a recent Canon body that reduced FPS by that much in servo AF?

No biggie though. Just push the FPS up to 7 with the additional low ISO DR.

 

[Corydoras]

The manual seems to be a bit unclear when it comes to the max fps, but I think that the manual is trying to say that the maximum fps will be 7 when using the viewfinder + servo af, and 5 if you are using servo af in live view.

 

[Sharlin]

The manual seems to be a bit unclear when it comes to the max fps, but I think that the manual is trying to say that the maximum fps will be 7 when using the viewfinder + servo af, and 5 if you are using servo af in live view.

Ah, indeed. The phrase "[Servo AF]" is used in the Live View chapter, page 275, to refer to Live View servo AF specifically. Also, interestingly, page 272 seems to claim that with one shot AF, the maximum shooting speed is ~7 fps even in Live View (which makes sense).

 

[rrcphoto]

On page 138 of the 80D manual it states this KEY bit of information, that few people have picked up on:
"During Live View shooting, or when (Servo AF) is set, the maximum speed will be max. approx 5.0 shots / sec

This appears to indicate that the 80D can shoot at 7FPS, but can not continuously AF at that speed. Maximum for continuous AF (Servo AF) is 5FPS.

no, you missed the key part of that. they were talking about during liveview. liveview uses Servo AF not AI Servo AF.

 

[verysimplejason]

Hmmm... the sensor seems like it's behaving like a Sony based on the graphs provided in the other forum.

It's just behaving like a sensor that is no longer read noise limited at low ISOs, and consequently the graph is close to that of an ideal, photon-shot-noise limited sensor. This is what people hoped for, but not very strong evidence that the sensor is actually Sony technology if that's what you implied.

Well I'm not implying anything except that Canon might be using something a similar technology. I'd be very happy if they're not actually using a Sony sensor. This would be a clear indicator that Canon has caught up with the competition when it comes to low ISO DR. My 6D is already good enough for most landscape photography that I'm doing but I'm always in awe with my friends' Nikon D800s and D810s when it comes to low ISO DR.

 

[pj1974]

On page 138 of the 80D manual it states this KEY bit of information, that few people have picked up on:
"During Live View shooting, or when (Servo AF) is set, the maximum speed will be max. approx 5.0 shots / sec

This appears to indicate that the 80D can shoot at 7FPS, but can not continuously AF at that speed. Maximum for continuous AF (Servo AF) is 5FPS.

no, you missed the key part of that. they were talking about during liveview. liveview uses Servo AF not AI Servo AF.

Ah.... now this finally makes sense! Thanks everyone for helping unravel the various references to the 80D's continual AF and FPS.

That's great news too. As I wrote above, having continual AF at 7FPS is noticeably different (better) than 5FPS.

My 7D achieves 8FPS, which meets most of my wildlife, BIF and sporting needs, so 7FPS will also be mostly adequate. 5FPS with continual AF (Servo AF) during Live View will at times be convenient too.

Plus - with the initial indications that the 80D having appreciably less ISO and increased dynamic range potential at most useful ISO's, it comes as a noticeable upgrade to several other Canon APS-C DSLRs.

Well done, Canon. Looking forward to more reviews and user reports in the coming weeks and months. Most of all, good photos.

Paul 8)

 

[dufflover]

As above hope this is Canon apparently catching up with others in the sensors. Means there isn't that constant excuse-making about how it's a "camera system" and whatever else (I actually agree with it, but still the worst overused excuse used to dismiss people who wouldn't mind a better sensor anyway).
The early signs convince me a lot more to possibly get one as it was always upgraded brains that I was looking for if I was upgrading my 70D - brains as in sensor, AF smarts, metering smarts, etc.