That graph disproves so many things people think are true:
- Lower MP being faster.
- BSI being faster
- APS-C being faster
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Canon Cinema EOS Cameras Coming in 2023 [CR3]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
- Start date
This isn’t the first time that a manufacturer has said they were going to have/offer this feature. It has yet to really come to fruition in any meaningful way.
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Looking at the amount of collaboration between Canon and RED I wouldn't be surprised if Canon bought them in the near future.
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While it's been a while since I've been on CanonRumors, I'm still lurking around and can pontificate that Canon looks DEEPLY at companies it wants to buy but I currently don't see them buying Red. HOWEVER, as per long-past previous posts, I DEFINITELY SEE APPLE looking REALLY HARD at outright buying Canon to get access to their CMOS Sensor chipmaking expertise and their Microscopes/Nano-Optics divisions since THERE IS STILL a Wall Street Rumour that Apple is going into 3D-XYZ Ion beam and/or Laser Sintering-based 3D Metal and Plastic Resin printing and needs high-end optics design and high-end chip-making expertise and Canon is PERFECT for having BOTH!
Canon has over 2500 different patents that Apple is ITCHING to get outright so they can lockout any competitor and THERE IS ALSO A RUMOUR that Apple is working on 3D Volumetric Displays that have cubic blocks of OLED wells that can form a real-world (i.e. NOT simulated!) three-dimensional view of any CAD/CAM/FEA objects and animation/simulation files. I understand from my European sources that Apple is also currently modifying a 3rd party CAD/CAM/FEA simulation software package in order to SELL a super-easy-to-use competitor to AutoCAD, Autodesk Inventor, SoftImage and CATIA in one relatively inexpensive package that is to be the "Final Cut Pro" of the 3D object creation, animation, simulation and 3D metal and plastic printing world!
In addition to the above 3D creation/printing products, Apple also wants to get into prosumer and professional imaging products so that VERY LARGE Global Shutter image sensors can go into their iPads, iPhones and Airbooks! I can see Apple putting single or even DUAL APS-C sensors (i.e. Stereoscopic cameras!) into a slightly thicker iPhone/iPad/Airbook that has 128 or even 256 Megapixels of resolution. This would ALSO be useful as a CHEAP real-time 3D scanner of real world objects that can be imported into their NEW 3D printing ecosystem. There would ALSO BE a Apple-branded PRO-LEVEL combined Still Photo/Video camera that would be used by the Holleywood types AND engineers/designers for high resolution imaging for cinempa purposes, downloadable online use and live streaming use AND also used for 3D scanning purposes -- aka a sort of Apple version of a 120 fps DCI 8k combined C70 and C300 Mk-3 at a middle-of-the-two price.
It would take less than 3 years for Apple to absolutely DECIMATE Autodesk and CATIA using their NEW 3D objects creation/printing software and I am thinking that Apple is VERY CLOSE to buying the U.S.-based 3D printer maker MarkForged who make GREAT carbon fibre-reinforced plastics and metal 3D printers! I have been wrong on my previous timelines BUT I am quite sure the Wall Street rumour mill is pretty close on Apple's intentions into Volumetric Displays, 3D scanning, new easy-to-use CAD/CAM/FEA software and 3D metal/plastics printing! I wouldn't surprised to hear some MAINSTREAM MEDIA start announcing an Apple move on MarkForged by sometime May 2023 and on SOME major manufacturer of optics and CMOS chipmaking. Another good buy for Apple would be Texas Instruments who can make high end DSP chips AND ARM-based processors (i.e. Apple M-x CPU series) in volume!
It would take only $80 Billion USD upfront to get all of Canon and Apple is ONE OF THE FEW COMPANIES that not only has the CASH to buy Canon outright, they are one of the FEW companies that would be ALLOWED by the Japanese government to purchase such a politically important Japanese company.
Now You Know!
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This is very interesting, I would certainly like to hear more. I am wondering if there will be any actual regulatory body that may step in to stop the monopolization.
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Doesn't sound like anything Apple have ever done previously - when do your 'sources' say this is likely to happen? Before the Canon takeover?
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Actually, NUMEROUS friends who work at finance and insurance firms such as Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Deutche RE, etc. have told me that Apple is ITCHING and preparing numerous reports on which companies to buy outright in order to support NEW AREAS of growth. The FIRST company that is considered IN THE SIGHTS of Apple within the New York, Chicago, Toronto, London, Tokyo, Singapore finance company sphere is MarkForged which is a U.S.-based 3D metal and plastics printer manufacturer. Apple wants a U.S.-based 3D printing company and MarkForged is IDEAL as the Massachusetts plant can be expanded quite readily and margins will be VERY HIGH once the assembly line is automated further. Apple will ALSO make deals with ALCOA, ALCAN and maybe even NUCOR and 3M to get Aluminum Alloy Powder, Stainless Steel Alloy powder and various Plastic Resin raw materials at a much cheaper bulk price than ANY of their competition!
These printers will be sold for between $3000 to $10,000 USD for the in-home and in-office models and larger more rugged models sold up to $25,000 and $50,000 USD or even $100,000 USD for the higher end warehouse-and-industry-oriented 3D powder metal and plastics laser-sintering and/or Ion Beam/Electron Beam printer models. In order to FACILITATE the 3D printing process there is a CURRENT project within Apple itself, of which I won't divulge names or locations, but is oriented to taking a CURRENT 3D software product and COMBINING CAD (Computer Aided Design), CAM (Computer Aided Machining), FEA (Finite Element Analysis) and Fluid/Gas/Thermal/Electrical Flow Modeling and Simulation AND adding 2D/3D-object Modeling and Animation and a user-extensible 2D/3D-design Automation/Batch Language and built-in List Processing-oriented integrated development environment similar to an HTML/XML/JAVA version of Delphi or Visual Basic into a SINGLE SUITE of 3D-printing software products that will be designed and function in a manner similar to Final Cut Pro but oriented towards 3D metal and plastic resin printing!
The KEY direction from Apple head honchos is that ALL of the 3D-XYZ CAD/CAM/FEA/Simulation/Printing functions MUST BE UNIFIED into a single software product that is accessed from a main toolbar and that ALL functions are EASY-TO-UNDERSTAND AND USE by both home/office users and more xperienced industrial users.
There are over TWO MILLION engineering oriented personnel and companies in just the USA and Canada alone who could use and buy an Apple-sourced 3D printing system. If you sell one $5000 3D metal or resin printer to each, that is $10 BILLION US Dollars of revenue just on the initial purchases alone AND then you can add the monthly resin and metal powder raw materials subscription service at say $500 per month at the low-end for purchasing pre-packaged and quality-vetted raw resin and powdered metal materials that is ANOTHER minimum of $12 BILLION US Dollars PER YEAR of gross revenue!
Add in Europe, China, Japan, South America and Africa and Apple could be looking at selling CHEAPER and EASIER-TO-USE 3D printers than anyone else and making their MOST SERIOUS monthly/yearly revenue from raw resin and metal powder materials sales (i.e. the "Hard Ink" of 3D printing industry!). Add it all up and that is a ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLAR+ per year revenue stream that Apple simply CANNOT IGNORE! Add in sales from the Apple Playstore of end-user-designed and end-user-sold 3D printable object files and extensible design scripts, and that's EVEN MORE SALES for Apple!
So again, MY finance friends say MarkForged is ONE primary target for Apple doing a complete buyout of said company! ANOTHER heavy hitter in Apple's sights is Texas Instruments who have vaaaaaaast in-house DSP/CPU/RAM MICROCHIP design and manufacturing expertise usable in multi-layer NAND and other non-volatile computer memory products that COMBINE the function of volatile RAM memory and non-volatile memory hard drives!
Texas instruments I think is one of the companies right at the TOP THREE of Apple's hit list of companies to buy! Canon is a bit more complex because of Japanese Political Sensitivities BUT Apple is ONE OF THE FEW companies who WOULD be allowed to purchase the entirety of Canon! Since Apple really only needs the nano-optics division and image sensor design division, I PERSONALLY suspect that an exchange of patents will take place AND that maybe a Canon-sourced DCI-8K+ resolution at 120 fps C70/R1-oem Cinema Camera version with Apple labelling may be agreed upon for use as a cheap 3D object scanning system AND as a way to introduce larger APS-C sensors into future Apple Smartphones, iPads and Airpad Notebooks!
AND .... That NEW Canon-made high resolution sensor chip and nano-optics tech may be introduced into the CURRENT APPLE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT into 3D Volumetric Displays that use cubic OLED-based pixel wells organized into small 12 inch and more massive 32 inch and 65 inch rectangular blocks of glass mounted onto a rotatable table that has width, length and height very much like the holographic displays you see in the movie AVATAR! This means an extrensive cross-licencing agreement WITH Canon or a POSSIBLE outright purchase of ALL of Canon by Apple! Apple HAS the money to to this type of deal!
Think of all that tech being used in 3D Volumetric Videophone systems, 3D CAD/CAM/FEA design and 3D display solutions and for 3D gaming systems market which Apple ALSO wants a big slice of in order to compete against xBox and Playstation BUT using Apple-only hardware. They WILL NOT come out with a separate gaming box BUT Apple absolutely WILL introduce new 3D-specific Smartphones, iPads and laptops that have 3D Volumetric displays and high resolution APS-C-sized 128 megapixel and/or 256 megapixel image sensors! I EXPECT that we WILL see the first $2000+ iPhone XVI (X-16) coming out with a 3D volumetric display soon enough!
ANOTHER set of companies that Apple is looking to buy in the near future are those that have innovative super-long-lasting BATTERY TECHNOLOGY such as Aluminum-Ion, Aluminum-Sulfur batteries or super-fast-charging Sheet Graphene Supercapacitors. There are some Canadian and German companies that I know of that Apple is looking at to purchase outright!
In terms of a final timeline, I will make a ROUGH GUESS that April, May or June 2023 is where we will see the first mainstream media accounts appearing of an outright deal with a 3D printer company, a memory or DSP/CPU chip company and/or a Battery manufacturer! The Canon deal has been in the works literally for TEN YEARS NOW! Do remember, that over 25 years ago, Canon was supposed to BUY all of Apple BUT NOW the tables have turned and Apple is in a GOOD financial position to outright BUY ALL OF CANON for their HUGE patent portfolio (3rd largest in the world!) after IBM and SAMSUNG!
Now You Know!
and
YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!
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Not sure about that 3D displays that has actual pixels in three dimensions, because it would be a heavy and large block and the number of pixels in three dimensions could get into the billions instead of millions.
What I could imagine a display that is slightly 3D. Like a relief. It has some depth, but not as much depth as the things it depicts. One dimension is heavily compressed. That reduces the amount of needed pixels. but it still would be huge. I think they would also have to reduce the resolution in the third dimension to something like 50 pixels or so.
What I could imagine a display that is slightly 3D. Like a relief. It has some depth, but not as much depth as the things it depicts. One dimension is heavily compressed. That reduces the amount of needed pixels. but it still would be huge. I think they would also have to reduce the resolution in the third dimension to something like 50 pixels or so.
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P.S. The FIRST clue of new developments is if you see at the NEXT worldwide Apple Developers conference a 3D metal and plastics-oriented printing API and/or a 3D Volumetric DIsplay API (Application Programming Interface) built into the base Apple operating systems. Once you see those in the Apple OS object files or within any code writing documentation, THEN YOU KNOW something BIG is coming down the pipeline!
i.e. if you see something like this:
resultflag Print3D( toolpathfilename characterstring; metalorplasticpowder: bitflag; whichprinter: int );
or
resultflag Write3DPixel( x, y, z: int; displaytablerotatedegrees: int; color: RGBApixel; which3Ddisplay: int );
or
resultflag ReadStereoscopicVideoFrame( stereoimagedestinationbuffer: buf; framenumber: int; pixelformat: int; timecode: SMPTEtimecode );
anywhere in their code SOMEBODY HAS JUST BEEN BOUGHT or IS BEING BOUGHT BY APPLE!
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This is ONE REASON WHY Apple is looking at buying a chip making company that has mass RAM/non-volatile memory design and manufacturing capacity!
A 4096 pixels long by 2160 pixels wide by 2160 pixels high (i.e. 1:89:1 Cinema Production Aspect Ratio) 3D Volumetric display would require 1,415,577,600 pixels (i.e. 1.4 Gigapixels) PER FRAME!
if we render RGBA pixels at 16 bits per colour channel (i.e. 64-bit RGBA colour) that is 11,324,620,800 Bytes (11.3 Gigabytes!) per frame so a VERY LARGE graphics buffer is needed BUT since Apple would CONTROL its own GPU memory production, it would save a FORTUNE in 3rd party RAM manufacturing costs by going completely in-house! The current version of Apple's M-series CPU chips have a memory bandwidth of 100 Gigabytes PER SECOND so that EASILY allows at least 8 frames per second worth of 3D frames available for display on a DCI-4K-resolution 3D Volumetric Display! Apple could SIMPLE DOUBLE OR TRIPLE that bandwidth in the future M3/M4 CPU chips by simple adding more data lanes to get us to the highly useful-for-3D-design-and-printing functionality at 24 fps or 30 fps of 3D frames display rates!
Like I said on other comments, I believe April to June 2023 we will see the first inklings of an Apple Buyout of a big company deal coming from mainstream media. AND ONCE WE SEE 3D printing and 3D display API source code embedded into documentation THEN YOU KNOW something just happened in the Apple company purchase pipeline!
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I'm not really sure the market is really craving a global shutter sensor. Rolling shutter sensors are good enough these days. It's good enough for the Alexa 35, which is the best digital cinema camera in the world. If the only advantage to the C700's S35 sensor is the global shutter, I think I'd probably stick the 8K full-frame sensor on the C700 and never take it off. The only real use case I can see for the global shutter would be live event production, where stage lights, strobe lights and flashes are common. But live event cameras tend to be more ENG-based systems rather than full featured cinema cameras.
Regardless, I do hope Canon moves the rest of their cinema series cameras to the RF mount sooner than later. It's very odd that their lowest-tier cinema cameras have the RF mount (R5C and C70), while their higher-tier cameras are stuck with an older EF mount.
Regardless, I do hope Canon moves the rest of their cinema series cameras to the RF mount sooner than later. It's very odd that their lowest-tier cinema cameras have the RF mount (R5C and C70), while their higher-tier cameras are stuck with an older EF mount.
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Global Shutter image sensor are more for Super-Smartphones than DSLR-type cameras. The NEXT BIG THING will be putting a 120+ megapixel APS-C sensor on a smartphone using asymmetrically-shaped compound-curve microlenses put over each photosite so that the sensor focal plane can actually FIT within the 7mm to 9mm thickness of modern smartphones.
Zeiss, Canon, Sony, Google and Nikon ALL have such patents for microlenses and THESE patents are crucial for getting such BIG image sensors into smartphones. The OTHER reason is that Global Shutter sensors, while difficult to manufacture, offer much FASTER READOUT and can offer SUPER-SMOOTH 120 fps to 240 FPS frame rates at DCI-8K resolutions and greater! Once that happens, EVEN MORE point-and-shoot and DSLR camera models will go the way of the Dodo Bird (aka Extinct) as smartphones take over more and more of our still photo and motion video imaging tasks!
And once Sigma STARTS licencing their FOVEON stacked RGB photosite technology to someone like Canon or Sony then the BAYER PATTERN CMOS sensor will also go away and SUPER-SHARP high resolution imagery will become commonplace as vertically-stacked RGB pixel photosites will DOUBLE the resolution of today's sensors along each X and Y axis! What is a 50 Megapixel Bayer Pattern sensor today becomes a SIGMA FOVEON-style vertically-stacked RGB sensor tomorrow with 200 megapixels (four times the number of megapixels!) of resolution. Combining Global Shutter with FOVEON vertically stacked RGB photosites will offer FAST frame rates and ultra-sharp, high resolution imagery!
AND YES we actually NEED that sort of ultra-high resolution for east-to-program DIGITAL ZOOM functions and fancier software-based image stabilization on videos! The extra crop available on ultra high 120+ megapixel FOVEON RGB Sensor systems makes smooth-looking CRISP/SHARP-looking video so much easier to get by EVERYONE! And for night-photographers and astro-photographers, by using advanced Digital Signal Processing luminance average functions, you can use pixel-binning of grouped series of pixels to create a resampled 20-to-40 megapixel image that has ENORMOUS dynamic range and low-light gathering power!
What's not to like about that?
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Yes, RED has been doing this for over.a decade. Still camera manufacturers simply get away with prducing another entire body to sell.
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However, Canon will allow the sensor to be swapped out, in much the manner that RED has ben doing for over a decade or so.
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However, Canon will allow the sensor to be swapped out, in much the manner that RED has been doing for over a decade or so.
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The C700 has had a swappable sensor since its inception but we are supposed to take it to Canon.
You really can do it yourself but you would void the warranty and I doubt the owners of that type of camera ever would.
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