Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

[rs]

Featuring a resolution of approximately 120 effective megapixels, the SLR camera now being developed will incorporate a Canon-developed high-pixel-density CMOS sensor within the current EOS-series platform, which will realize compatibility with the Company’s diverse interchangeable EF lens lineup.3 The high-resolution images that the camera will be capable of producing will recreate the three-dimensional texture, feel and presence of subjects, making them appear as if they are really before one’s eyes. The camera will facilitate a level of resolution that is more than sufficient for enlarged poster-sized printout while also enabling images to be cropped and trimmed without sacrificing image resolution and clarity.

source: http://www.canon.com/news/2015/sep08e2.html

 

[Sporgon]

Jeez, we'd all better get new computers. No wonder the used price of a late production 5D is going up.

I never could quite understand this "canon is behind on sensor development" thing. Even the 50 mp current sensor is ahead of the Sony on a number of metrics.

Kind of scary where this resolution is going. Looking at the IQ of a 7DII I can't help but feel much of the sensor area on the 5Ds is just wasted.

 

[Antono Refa]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I find it a little strange the sensor size is not stated.

Also, I wonder which existing EF lenses can resolve anywhere near 120MP, esp if the sensor is smaller than FF.

 

[meywd]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

more awesome news

 

[dolina]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

CFast will be the memory card of choice here.

All those demanding they use CF cards should try using a 5Ds. 1.9 seconds to review an image on the LCD after it was taken.

 

[nemtom]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I find it a little strange the sensor size is not stated.

Also, I wonder which existing EF lenses can resolve anywhere near 120MP, esp if the sensor is smaller than FF.

All lenses being more than f/4 wouldn't be able to resolve that much even on a full frame sensor. That's the reason I don't understand why is this high sensor density is the new trend. With this density diffraction comes as a limiting factor immediately, so there is no way to increase depth of field other than decreasing image quality without tilting the lens. Physics has its limitation.
The only way to achieve good quality is to increase the sensor size. Period.

 

[tomscott]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

HOLY S%*T

Come on Canon bring home the bacon ;D

 

[wockawocka]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

At 120mp that's going to be a beaut for anything requiring that res.

Pixel bin the thing and add user customizable crop overlays (like 8x10 and 6x4.5) and it'll really affect a lot of people.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I find it a little strange the sensor size is not stated.

Also, I wonder which existing EF lenses can resolve anywhere near 120MP, esp if the sensor is smaller than FF.

All lenses being more than f/4 wouldn't be able to resolve that much even on a full frame sensor. That's the reason I don't understand why is this high sensor density is the new trend. With this density diffraction comes as a limiting factor immediately, so there is no way to increase depth of field other than decreasing image quality without tilting the lens. Physics has its limitation.
The only way to achieve good quality is to increase the sensor size. Period.

Cut and pasted from a similarly misinformed thread in March.

System resolution can be broadly shorthanded down to this equation, it isn't perfect but pretty close.

tsr = 1/sqrt((1/lsr) ² + (1/ssr) ² )

Where tsr is total spatial resolution, lsr is lens spatial resolution, and ssr is sensor spatial resolution.

So if, for example, we have a sensor that can resolve 100 lppmm, and a lens that can resolve 100 lppmm we get this

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/100) ² ) = tsr of 71 lppmm

Leave the same lens on, good or bad, and double the sensor resolution to 200 lppmm

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/200) ² ) = tsr of 89 lppmm


You will notice that the system resolution, even in this simplified form, can never resolve 100% of the lowest performing portion of that system, so if a 24MP sensor is returning 80% of the potential of a lens then a 50MP sensor might return 90%, how useful that is in real life is a moot point, but it does illustrate that even the most modest lens will show increased resolution when put in front of a higher resolving sensor.

 

[sanj]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

Hahahahahahaha. And we were debating if 4K was necessary!!!!! So I guess no more of that outdated talk will surface again.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

Hahahahahahaha. And we were debating if 4K was necessary!!!!! So I guess no more of that outdated talk will surface again.

Well some might not, I am still happy with my 21MP and hoping the 1DX MkII comes in around 24MP, if it does I suspect two of them will see my photography career out, after all the 1Ds MkIII's have lasted 7 years and counting. If they aren't then maybe a 5DSR and a single 1DX MkII will spread the feature set, but it would be reluctant.........

 

[Sporgon]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I find it a little strange the sensor size is not stated.

Also, I wonder which existing EF lenses can resolve anywhere near 120MP, esp if the sensor is smaller than FF.

All lenses being more than f/4 wouldn't be able to resolve that much even on a full frame sensor. That's the reason I don't understand why is this high sensor density is the new trend. With this density diffraction comes as a limiting factor immediately, so there is no way to increase depth of field other than decreasing image quality without tilting the lens. Physics has its limitation.
The only way to achieve good quality is to increase the sensor size. Period.

Cut and pasted from a similarly misinformed thread in March.

System resolution can be broadly shorthanded down to this equation, it isn't perfect but pretty close.

tsr = 1/sqrt((1/lsr) ² + (1/ssr) ² )

Where tsr is total spatial resolution, lsr is lens spatial resolution, and ssr is sensor spatial resolution.

So if, for example, we have a sensor that can resolve 100 lppmm, and a lens that can resolve 100 lppmm we get this

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/100) ² ) = tsr of 71 lppmm

Leave the same lens on, good or bad, and double the sensor resolution to 200 lppmm

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/200) ² ) = tsr of 89 lppmm


You will notice that the system resolution, even in this simplified form, can never resolve 100% of the lowest performing portion of that system, so if a 24MP sensor is returning 80% of the potential of a lens then a 50MP sensor might return 90%, how useful that is in real life is a moot point, but it does illustrate that even the most modest lens will show increased resolution when put in front of a higher resolving sensor.

Yes, landscape users of both the 5DIII and 5Ds are reporting that latter is sharper at f/11 than the former is at f/8, pro rata.

 

[nemtom]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I find it a little strange the sensor size is not stated.

Also, I wonder which existing EF lenses can resolve anywhere near 120MP, esp if the sensor is smaller than FF.

All lenses being more than f/4 wouldn't be able to resolve that much even on a full frame sensor. That's the reason I don't understand why is this high sensor density is the new trend. With this density diffraction comes as a limiting factor immediately, so there is no way to increase depth of field other than decreasing image quality without tilting the lens. Physics has its limitation.
The only way to achieve good quality is to increase the sensor size. Period.

Cut and pasted from a similarly misinformed thread in March.

System resolution can be broadly shorthanded down to this equation, it isn't perfect but pretty close.

tsr = 1/sqrt((1/lsr) ² + (1/ssr) ² )

Where tsr is total spatial resolution, lsr is lens spatial resolution, and ssr is sensor spatial resolution.

So if, for example, we have a sensor that can resolve 100 lppmm, and a lens that can resolve 100 lppmm we get this

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/100) ² ) = tsr of 71 lppmm

Leave the same lens on, good or bad, and double the sensor resolution to 200 lppmm

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/200) ² ) = tsr of 89 lppmm


You will notice that the system resolution, even in this simplified form, can never resolve 100% of the lowest performing portion of that system, so if a 24MP sensor is returning 80% of the potential of a lens then a 50MP sensor might return 90%, how useful that is in real life is a moot point, but it does illustrate that even the most modest lens will show increased resolution when put in front of a higher resolving sensor.

I don't say that oversampling will not produce better results than not oversampling the lens, but I would like to underline that if you look at this diagram ( http://tinyurl.com/pnjbhnr ), at some point the increase of the SSP (x in this diagram, max value is 400) will not increase the system's resolution (blue line) dramatically, while increasing sensor size would increase the resolution linearly.
And because the lenses a solid limiting factor called diffraction, so lens' resolution cannot grow higher than a certain amount based on the aperture, the whole system will never produce much better image.

 

[Diltiazem]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

Some brands maybe changing their pants. 8)

 

[-pekr-]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

Well, Canon - first things first - put the 5D MK IV on the market, now

 

[Diltiazem]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I find it a little strange the sensor size is not stated.

Also, I wonder which existing EF lenses can resolve anywhere near 120MP, esp if the sensor is smaller than FF.

All lenses being more than f/4 wouldn't be able to resolve that much even on a full frame sensor. That's the reason I don't understand why is this high sensor density is the new trend. With this density diffraction comes as a limiting factor immediately, so there is no way to increase depth of field other than decreasing image quality without tilting the lens. Physics has its limitation.
The only way to achieve good quality is to increase the sensor size. Period.

Cut and pasted from a similarly misinformed thread in March.

System resolution can be broadly shorthanded down to this equation, it isn't perfect but pretty close.

tsr = 1/sqrt((1/lsr) ² + (1/ssr) ² )

Where tsr is total spatial resolution, lsr is lens spatial resolution, and ssr is sensor spatial resolution.

So if, for example, we have a sensor that can resolve 100 lppmm, and a lens that can resolve 100 lppmm we get this

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/100) ² ) = tsr of 71 lppmm

Leave the same lens on, good or bad, and double the sensor resolution to 200 lppmm

1/sqrt((1/100) ² + (1/200) ² ) = tsr of 89 lppmm


You will notice that the system resolution, even in this simplified form, can never resolve 100% of the lowest performing portion of that system, so if a 24MP sensor is returning 80% of the potential of a lens then a 50MP sensor might return 90%, how useful that is in real life is a moot point, but it does illustrate that even the most modest lens will show increased resolution when put in front of a higher resolving sensor.

I don't say that oversampling will not produce better results than not oversampling the lens, but I would like to underline that if you look at this diagram ( http://tinyurl.com/pnjbhnr ), at some point the increase of the SSP (x in this diagram, max value is 400) will not increase the system's resolution (blue line) dramatically, while increasing sensor size would increase the resolution linearly.
And because the lenses a solid limiting factor called diffraction, so lens' resolution cannot grow higher than a certain amount based on the aperture, the whole system will never produce much better image.

This guy makes sense.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52070644

 

[pedro]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

So, with these intresting news in mind, I kinda see a much deeper reason behind Canon's activity in re-modeling their lens line up...Don't have an FF body at the time, as my 5D3 got stolen due to an assault. But I think my rusty old 30D will be good for do some additional clicks while the amount which was covered by the insurance will wait to be invested in a new cam and a wa-lens...Three years down the road or whenever...

 

[entoman]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

As a working pro who has used Canon cameras for several years, my message to Canon is NO, NO, NO!

You are going in completely the wrong direction. Pros and advanced amateurs have no need or desire for such a camera.

24-28 MP is more than enough for us, even 36 MP is overkill for most people.

What we want is noise-free images at ISO 3200 and above. What we want is significantly increased dynamic range, to retain shadow and highlight detail in contrasty lighting. What we want is better subject tracking. What we want is image stabilisation incorporated into ALL Canon lenses, or IBIS bodies. What we want is bigger, brighter viewfinders in the APS models.

What we DON'T want or need is ridiculously high megapixel counts!

 

[jeffa4444]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

Well super 35 will be a real limiting factor for Canon silly move that will please Arri. Should be open gate or Vistavision shows they know nothing about the movie industry.

 

[Deleted member 368647]

Re: Canon Developing 8K Cinema EOS Camera, 120mp DSLR & 8K Display

I could see resolution being a standard DSLR variable (like ISO, f-stop, etc.) that you set when taking a picture. For some shots I might want high resolution but for others a lower value would be more appropriate. Naturally, if something like this becomes standard fare on cameras we could choose our defaults based on our preferences.