Canon EOS-1D X Mark III field testing has begun [CR2]

[bokehmon22]

I bet next R camera and 1dx3 are both 35mpix cameras so they can do 8k .
Doesnt sound logical they make highpixel R next ,for marginal highpixel camera user base .
They need good 35mpixel camere next for R

35 mpx (slightly better ISO/DR), dual card slot, IBIS, better eyeAF.

That would be enough for me to buy into RF system.

 

[Nelu]

The last generation of wooly mammoths...

And why is that, if I may ask?
What is it about mirrorless technology that makes it so much superior to a DSLR, for the 1D series?
A camera is a tool, just like a hammer. Are you gonna get rid of the black hammers because the red ones look better ...and have better DR..., even if they aren't any lighter or more durable?
I can see some benefits for the lower tier cameras, especially silent shutter for concerts, weddings, etc, but who the hell cares about the mirror slapping on a stadium with thousands of people yelling from their guts?
Camera size? No difference, and if there is one, that would be a mistake from Canon. Just image an A9 with a 600mm lens; just ridiculous!
Camera weight? Same as above.
EVF instead of OVF; which one would you prefer to use for a long time, like a couple of hours?
WYSIWYG? Pro's know better than that; they don't need to see the picture before they take it. Especially for night sport events, it's all a compromise and the exposure triangle is set in stone: 1/1000s, F/2.8, ISO 3200 or 6400, give or take.
In harsh conditions the woolly mammoths will survive while the butt-naked elephants will not

 

[kaptainkatsu]

Love how people who don't use a 1DX style body think 1DX users want a small compact body and RF big whites. RF Superteles are a long way away. These aren't lenses we buy every time they are updated, they stay in the library a very long time and we need maximum compatibility with all bodies.

 

[padam]

I'm sure someone here has a feel for the average lead time of a Canon pro model field test to announcement / release. What would that be? 9 months? A year?

Also connected to the product cycle, replacing the 1DX Mark II after ~ 4 years seems logical.
There are always conflicting news, for instance, the 5D IV was already rumored to be under testing in May 2015 and it only got released after the 1DX Mark II in August 2016 (with lots of fake rumors during that period)

 

[kaptainkatsu]

the last couple of 1Ds had dual processors or the most powerful types at the moment. that helped make the cameras faster.

3 actually.

 

[Random Orbits]

I bet next R camera and 1dx3 are both 35mpix cameras so they can do 8k .
Doesnt sound logical they make highpixel R next ,for marginal highpixel camera user base .
They need good 35mpixel camere next for R

I hope not. The rumor was that the next 5DS would be an R, so you want everyone to be happy going from 50 to 35 MP, with the R already sitting at 30MP? That makes no sense, especially when Sony and Nikon are pushing MPs higher. And why would Canon do full sensor 8k implementation when they can't even do 4k, and this is for the next R body that is supposed to be announced later this year? If anything, 8K from a camera is more niche than your "highpixel camera user base."

 

[davidhfe]

What is it about mirrorless technology that makes it so much superior to a DSLR, for the 1D series?

Autofocus and frame rate. I am in 100% agreement that it is not there yet on AF, but a 36mp DPAF sensor is simply going to allow the camera to make better focus decisions than a PDAF module + 300k metering sensor. Yes, it's a lot of processing needed. No, TI (or whomever supplies Digic these days) is not there yet. In five years' time though autofocus is going to be mind-reading good. And there's simply a physical limit on how many times you can toss a mirror up and down in a second. The A9 has already blown canon out of the water on frame rate and it's because of reasons inherent to the mirrorless design.

 

[kaptainkatsu]

Autofocus and frame rate. I am in 100% agreement that it is not there yet on AF, but a 36mp DPAF sensor is simply going to allow the camera to make better focus decisions than a PDAF module + 300k metering sensor. Yes, it's a lot of processing needed. No, TI (or whomever supplies Digic these days) is not there yet. In five years' time though autofocus is going to be mind-reading good. And there's simply a physical limit on how many times you can toss a mirror up and down in a second. The A9 has already blown canon out of the water on frame rate and it's because of reasons inherent to the mirrorless design.

20fps can only be achieved in certain use cases on the a9

 

[Pape]

I hope not. The rumor was that the next 5DS would be an R, so you want everyone to be happy going from 50 to 35 MP, with the R already sitting at 30MP? That makes no sense, especially when Sony and Nikon are pushing MPs higher. And why would Canon do full sensor 8k implementation when they can't even do 4k, and this is for the next R body that is supposed to be announced later this year? If anything, 8K from a camera is more niche than your "highpixel camera user base."

just referring rumour what says they want be on first line when 8k comes.. i guess you right, there are probably as many people who want buy hightmegapixel camera than those who wants buy action frame rate camera

 

[sdz]

If the next 1D X camera will have a mirror, as this report suggests, and if Canon will release a 'Pro' R body, as Canon has suggested it would, then Canon will likely take one of three paths:

1. Canon will debut a new sensor platform with this 'Pro' R camera

2. Canon will use an old sensor platform and merely increase the pixel count

3. Canon will debut a new sensor platform and give a large pixel count (75 MP).

Canon patent applications tell us and Canon executives have intimated that Canon will address the sensor gap that exists between it and Sony sensor based cameras. Since the next 1D X camera will have a mirror and since Canon eventually will release a new and improved sensor platform, my guess is that Canon will choose path 3, the new sensor, large pixel count option for the R. It will be comparatively easier for Canon to develop the new sensor platform with a large MP sensor meant to be used by landscape and portrait photographers. For them, frame rates are unimportant. This path would buy time for Canon while it develops a 5D IV replacement on the R platform, a camera able to shoot sporting events and wildlife, a camera with the sensor readout speeds and computational power to compete with the best Sony has to offer.

But, I might be wrong about this. I expected Canon to release a camera that had an EF/R hybrid for its mount! That did not work out well, for me. The R mount has been an unqualified success, for Canon.

 

[tiggy@mac.com]

CanonGuy, this is a little ambiguous. Did you mean to say it's going to be a 1dx3 (and therefor a dslr), or did you mean more generically the successor to the 1dx2? In other words, did the rumor specifically indicate DSLR, or merely that there is a successor being tested?

 

[davidhfe]

20fps can only be achieved in certain use cases on the a9

Sure. And what's the difference between the 1DX2's 14 and 16fps modes? The latter can only be done with live view.

Look, if folks love their OVFs I'm not gonna argue with 'em. But the mechanics of articulating a mirror up and down 14 times a second is a huge limiting factor, especially when you think about all the stuff that has to *also* happen when the mirror is up or down (shutter curtains/the actual exposure, metering, focus, etc) and waiting for the damn thing to settle down (the mirror bounces for almost as long as it spends in motion)

Mirrorless removes an insanely complicated optical path and reduces the mechanical complexity at the expense of processing required to work with the increased data off the sensor. If I were designing a camera (and thank god I'm not) I know which problem I'd rather be trying to solve.

 

[degos]

Mirrorless also eliminates vast amouts of vibration when that mirror is flapping at 14fps, which is vibration that the lens IS doesn't entirely eliminate. And when it's busy fighting that vibration it still has to deal with the photographer's sweaty, excited, trembling hands.

Eliminating the flap also means that mirrorless cameras can pre-cache shots, such as in the short but measurable period of time between the photographer achieving focus with AF-ON button and his finger pushing the trigger down. Once the lock is achieved, a mirrorless camera can start shooting. If he doesn't push the button within a second or two, discard the frames. If he does, just save them to the card with the shots he 'commanded' and maybe the camera has bagged him a winner. That millisecond which caught the bat on the ball, or the two aeroplanes crossing...

 

[Viggo]

I’m both relieved and disappointed in myself for not caring all that much about a new 1-series, that’s the first time since before the release of the 1d3... weird...

It will be fun to see how they improve the 1dx2, although I know I’m not buying. It will be epic.

 

[flip314]

If the next 1D X camera will have a mirror, as this report suggests, and if Canon will release a 'Pro' R body, as Canon has suggested it would, then Canon will likely take one of three paths:

1. Canon will debut a new sensor platform with this 'Pro' R camera

2. Canon will use an old sensor platform and merely increase the pixel count

3. Canon will debut a new sensor platform and give a large pixel count (75 MP).

I strongly suspect that Canon is waiting for a new sensor to debut the Pro R (and that it explains their delay in releasing one). I think they would have released a Pro R already if they thought they could, but with all the flack they got for recycling sensors in the R and RP could you imagine if they did it in an even more expensive camera? I don't think it would fly at all.

 

[Sharlin]

Have you seen an account where the EF to RF converters did not work flawlessly? So far, I have seen nothing but praise. I do not think glass would be an issue and I do not know what Canon has up their sleeve internally for the next R, but considering they've been working on DPAF since the 70D, I do wonder how far off a Professional R camera really is. As noted above, Canon has been dropping a lot of resources into the segment.

Yes, the adapters work perfectly. It would still be beyond embarrassing for Canon to offer a true flagship camera in mirrorless form and just tell all the pros to use adapters.

The 1DX3 target audience is nothing if not sticklers to what has been battle-tested and proven to work, both ergonomically and tech-wise. It makes sense that they're pretty much the last to switch to mirrorless, a tech which mostly doesn't make their work easier compared to a DSLR.

The reason I said Canon is a long way from 1DX level mirrorless is the fact that even though DPAF is precise and tracks well, Canon seems to have a real problem with throughput and Servo AF. Show me an R body that shoots at least 8fps with Servo AF, nailing a large majority of shots and with minimal EVF blackout/slowdown, and I start believing that Canon has what it takes to build an R body with AF performance that 1DX users are used to.

 

[Sharlin]

Sony appears to have done that with their A9. Canon has at least 2 more RF bodies to release within 17 months.

Yes, but Sony does not have the sort of problem with continuous AF and FPS that Canon appears to.

 

[Nelu]

Mirrorless also eliminates vast amouts of vibration when that mirror is flapping at 14fps, which is vibration that the lens IS doesn't entirely eliminate. And when it's busy fighting that vibration it still has to deal with the photographer's sweaty, excited, trembling hands.

Eliminating the flap also means that mirrorless cameras can pre-cache shots, such as in the short but measurable period of time between the photographer achieving focus with AF-ON button and his finger pushing the trigger down. Once the lock is achieved, a mirrorless camera can start shooting. If he doesn't push the button within a second or two, discard the frames. If he does, just save them to the card with the shots he 'commanded' and maybe the camera has bagged him a winner. That millisecond which caught the bat on the ball, or the two aeroplanes crossing...

IBIS and lens stabilization are totally irrelevant for a sports camera. What you need to worry is the very fast subjects motion blur, not your shaky hands.
It would only matter for video, of course. Now, is the 1D form factor something you would use for video? I wouldn't, because it's just too big. Smaller bodies would be better suited for that task.
Just my 2 cents...

 

[tiggy@mac.com]

24 mp might be a bit too conservative even for the 1Dx line, 28-30 mp might be more likely. Autofocus should be where they concentrate their improvements (I expect to see an improved autofocus introduced with the 7dIII, as well) The market for the 1Dx series is conservative -- pros who want rock solid reliability and no surprises. Improvements will be incremental. They will add full touch screen, wifi and up the frame rate a notch. This won't be the last 1Dx DSLR, but there may be a 1Dx R introduced in about three years that will be sold alongside the DSLR for at least another generation. Pro 1Dx users will likely be the last group to move to mirrorless (if indeed they ever do). Canon will keep making and selling DSLRs as long as the demand is there.

I think the number of people who would feel a +2 fps upgrade to the new 1D model was worthwhile is *much* smaller than the number of people who would put up money for one if their was a +5-10 megapixel upgrade. The frame rate is pretty good - better than needed for most uses. The resolution is not so good for a number of applications, to the point where the 1D isn't considered the best Canon camera for some people. But I see no evidence that Canon has the capability of putting through more than 280 megapixels per second (14/sec@20mp) while using three Digics in one ginormous body, and I doubt they would lower the maximum fps at full resolution. My guess is they have the capability of giving about 10 fps at 30 mp and would require the 1D form factor to give it enough of a heat and power envelope. Just don't see them doing it. It also appears that to do the equivalent in mirrorless leaves only a portion of the required processing capacity available. A 1R might do 8fps at 30mp (in servo, which is about 3 times as fast as the current R in servo) and need to be as large as the DSLR variant.

If they came out with either such increased megapixel upgrade, I'd definitely buy. But if they came out with a DSLR with +2 fps and some of the obvious upgrades, like the touch screen the 2dx2 inexplicably lacked at launch, etc., I'd buy a used 1dx2 after they came down to $2.5-2.8k used if I wanted to stay with Canon, or - like as not - look seriously at alternatives.

I'm in limbo now. I bought an R yesterday, and it's interesting, but annoying in some ways. I was surprised how much less usable the touch screen focus point manipulation is on the R versus the M5. I was expecting it to be at least as fast as the M5 I once owned. I bought the R to stick a 50 1.2 R on it, and that's impressive, but I'm not sure I'll keep them if it doesn't get easier as I learn to use it better. Images are just like those from my 5D4s, not surprisingly, so that's adequate. It is, however, unacceptably slow in the frame rate department.

All this makes me think that if Canon doesn't prove it's ability to throw lots of megapixels (at least 30) through to a memory card more than 8-10 times per second in a mirrorless body, then it doesn't make sense for me to invest in EF glass (on the way out) nor R bodies (not capable enough). If the 2020 Olympics offering is a 1 series body upgrade about as incremental as the last one, I won't expect Canon will provide what I need, which would greatly sadden me. If they came out with a great 1 series upgrade, I might get that as a stop-gap to allow me to use current glass and give time for mirrorless to catch up. Not that other people's use cases aren't well taken care of by these current offerings. And not that the RF lenses are the most exciting thing happening in the industry right now from an academic perspective. Between now and that next release, I'm experimenting with both the R system, and I'm going to also play around with either the L mount stuff - once Sigma's glass comes out - or the next rev of the Sony A9 or A7r. Best case: Canon surprises us with something great. I have my fingers crossed, but I'm worried enough that I'm spending time and money exploring other things to do due diligence.

 

[NorskHest]

Love how people who don't use a 1DX style body think 1DX users want a small compact body and RF big whites. RF Superteles are a long way away. These aren't lenses we buy every time they are updated, they stay in the library a very long time and we need maximum compatibility with all bodies.

It is comical that people in here think we who shoot professionally just go out and buy new shit at the drop of a hat or announcement. I shoot professional motocross and road racing, I work with people and magazines that supply and use 1dmkiv’s, 1dx mki’s, 300mm version ones and all sorts of old gear still. I use my 1dxmkii and a 1dc, for me and those like me to say I’m going to get rid of allllll my super telephotos and these two bodies that work perfectly for a few mega pixels or new mount with no proven reliability are high. I do video as well and I have a c200 for that, it will take something ungodly drastic to get me to replace my 1dxmkii and 1dc. If it is not getting me more money, then there is no reason to purchase. We want a big bulky durable camera that can get drenched, dropped, and beaten,familiar grip and button layout and not some lightweight camera that doesn’t balance out our super telephotos with terrrible ergonomics. Mega pixels will not make me or other professionals think we should get this new camera but if improved autofocus and 10bit internally recorded video to Cfast is a thing then yes we professionals will consider. I like Cfast, I like it a lot, and 2 Cfast slots would be nice but one is still fine, having a 1tb Cfast makes having a second slot close to moot. The 1dxmkii is an incredible and reliable camera, it will be hard to beat.