Canon EOS 6D Mark II Coming July 20, 2017? [CR1]

[LonelyBoy]

What features, exactly, do you think it's acceptable for Canon to remove from the 5D4 to make the 6D2 cheaper, without calling it "crippled" or "nerfed"? Please be specific.

Whether we call it nerfing or just 'artfully leaving something out for cost/business reasons', it all depends on what you personally value plus what is reasonable to pull off with a FF rig at this price point in 2017.

But, just guessing here:

5D4 Stuff the 6D2 Won't Get and People Will 100% Understand

• Rugged, solid build quality
• A 1DX2-like AF system, # of points, all the f/8 points, etc.
• 100% VF coverage
• The 5D4 metering setup
• The 5D4's 150k cycle shutter durability rating
• 7 fps
• The odd extra button(s) that the 5D4 currently has over the 6D1
• 30 MP (presuming you like resolution that is; some folks may be delighted the 6D2 gets less than 30 MP)

5D4 Stuff the 6D2 Won't Get That Some Folks Will Get Butthurt About, but Others Might Concede is a Fair / Reasonable Product Differentiation Decision

• No 4k (we don't know this is happening, but if it did, I'd peg it in this middle bucket -- not everyone shoots video, but those that do could be quite angry over this.)
• That extra little girth/chunkiness that makes the 5D grips so perfect in the hands
• Dual card slots (many want this, while many don't care)
• AF joystick
• AF point selection via touchscreen
• 1/200 flash sync
• 1/8000 max shutter speed

Things That Almost All of Us Would Declare As Nerfing / Deliberate Omission if the 6D2 Ended Up With These Specs

• A very low number of AF points (let's say 20 or less)
• A tiny buffer that greatly limited burst shooting
• 1/8000 max shutter speed
• Lack of f/8 AF points outside of the center point
• [Insert egregious video decision here] (I'm no video person, but a limited recording time, low bitrate output, lack of certain resolution / speed options, etc.)

Now, having said all that, everyone here would bucket this list a little differently. So, brace for impact -- there will be fury/tears for someone here, and we'll be sure to hear of it in real time on announcement day. :

- A

See, I disagree - saying "nerfed" or "crippled" is specifically places a value judgement that the decisions made were unacceptable, rather than just the reality of the fact that the 6D line is below the 5D line, so of course it's going to have fewer features. If we're right about the price point (going from MSRP), the 5D4 is what, $3300? and the 6D2 will be almost a third less at $2300. The sensor will probably be quite similar, so that ~1/3rd reduction has to come from mostly elsewhere.

Your first list is just about certainly correct (though I would assume even if those were the ONLY omissions that the doomsayers would go on saying doom).

The second list is certainly also not happening and people already called the 6D crippled because of it.

You then also put 1/8000 on the "all would call nerfing" list, when we can be 99% sure it's not coming. I'd be surprised if we get f/8 outside of the center point, or maybe a center cluster (isn't the 5D3 center-point-only for f/8, and people are saying they want the 5D3 AF system?). The buffer will be lower than everyone wants, because of course you can always want more, but for something not targeted at sports shooters they won't include more buffer.

The impression I get is that K will be unhappy with anything other than, effectively, a relabeled 5D4 for a grand off. Which we will not get, because of course we won't; if we were the 5D4 would be $2300 already. However, any feature removal to hit the price is "crippling", so he'll be pissing and moaning no matter what.

Not that this will be any different from usual.

 

[Don Haines]

What features, exactly, do you think it's acceptable for Canon to remove from the 5D4 to make the 6D2 cheaper, without calling it "crippled" or "nerfed"? Please be specific.

The camera strap! If the camera strap does not say 5D4 then Canon is DOOMED!!!!!

Seriously though, for some people it really does not matter, they will never be happy and are convinced that it is all a personal attack against them.....

What do I expect? A similar build to the 6D, and a similar relationship between it and the 5D4 as the 6D had to the 5D3....worse AF system, lower buffer, slower shutter, etc etc,

I also expect to see a SLIGHTLY better sensor (just like before) and at last, a high(er) end camera with a flippy touch screen.

 

[rrcphoto]

What features, exactly, do you think it's acceptable for Canon to remove from the 5D4 to make the 6D2 cheaper, without calling it "crippled" or "nerfed"? Please be specific.

The camera strap! If the camera strap does not say 5D4 then Canon is DOOMED!!!!!

Seriously though, for some people it really does not matter, they will never be happy and are convinced that it is all a personal attack against them.....

What do I expect? A similar build to the 6D, and a similar relationship between it and the 5D4 as the 6D had to the 5D3....worse AF system, lower buffer, slower shutter, etc etc,

I also expect to see a SLIGHTLY better sensor (just like before) and at last, a high(er) end camera with a flippy touch screen.

IMO the slightly better sensor was probably canon transitioning from one system to another for sensor fab. it was finally the first full frame non 1 series sensor that didn't have banding and had a slightly better DR because of it.

to expect lightening to strike twice is probably unrealistic.

 

[Don Haines]

What features, exactly, do you think it's acceptable for Canon to remove from the 5D4 to make the 6D2 cheaper, without calling it "crippled" or "nerfed"? Please be specific.

The camera strap! If the camera strap does not say 5D4 then Canon is DOOMED!!!!!

Seriously though, for some people it really does not matter, they will never be happy and are convinced that it is all a personal attack against them.....

What do I expect? A similar build to the 6D, and a similar relationship between it and the 5D4 as the 6D had to the 5D3....worse AF system, lower buffer, slower shutter, etc etc,

I also expect to see a SLIGHTLY better sensor (just like before) and at last, a high(er) end camera with a flippy touch screen.

IMO the slightly better sensor was probably canon transitioning from one system to another for sensor fab. it was finally the first full frame non 1 series sensor that didn't have banding and had a slightly better DR because of it.

to expect lightening to strike twice is probably unrealistic.

i expect that whatever the newest sensor is, to have a performance advantage over that which came before.... and if the 6D2 is fewer megapixels than the 5D4, that also helps for low light performance......

 

[ahsanford]

You then also put 1/8000 on the "all would call nerfing" list, when we can be 99% sure it's not coming.

My fault -- I cloned list two to start list three and missed that one. (Notice it made two lists! )

I meant to put 1/8000 in the middle bucket. It takes a more expensive setup (shutter, mirrorbox, etc.) to pull that off, so it's not remotely a no-brainer.

- A

 

[Keith_Reeder]

You may have a faulty sarcasm detector....

No, it works perfectly, Don - my point was for them, not you, because pointing out their (to use the American) douchebaggery is important...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

and if the 6D2 is fewer megapixels than the 5D4, that also helps for low light performance...

But that doesn't happen, does it? Look at the entire 5D series - pixel count and low light performance have increased/improved with each model.

Same with the xxD series.

 

[Don Haines]

and if the 6D2 is fewer megapixels than the 5D4, that also helps for low light performance...

But that doesn't happen, does it? Look at the entire 5D series - pixel count and low light performance have increased/improved with each model.

Same with the xxD series.

My first DSLR maxed out at ISO 1600 and was unusable after 400..... yes, they have been steadily improving over time and now that we are hitting 70% and higher quantum efficiency on sensors, we only have a half stop left to go on the efficiency side of the equation...... the latest designs put the A/D on chip and as a result, the amount of read noise has plummeted....

As a result, even with shrinking pixel size over the years as we climbed from 6 to 30 (or more) megapixels, we got better and better quality pixels. Short of cooling the sensor, there is no significant source of noise left and one should not expect improvements of more than a few percent as new models come out..... That leaves pixel size as the big variable....

Take two FF sensors made with the same technology..... one at 25MP and the other at 50.... we can say that the same amount of light falls on each sensor and that therefore, after resampling both images to the same size, the low light performance should be the same, and we would be close to being right. Unfortunately, pixels have waste area around the edges and so does your Bayer filter and your micro lenses... as a result, the larger pixel sensor uses a greater percentage of the sensor area to gather light and therefore gives you a stronger signal. The lower amount of circuitry should result in less thermal noise, and therefore give a cleaner signal.

All that said, we are NOT using the same technology. Lessons learned from one sensor are implemented on the next and each new design is slightly better than the last. When the 6D2 comes out we can expect it to have the best Canon sensor (until the next camera is released), and with all of these variables included, we can reasonably expect it to be Canon's low light king....