Canon EOS 7D Firmware 2.0 Available for Download

[paul13walnut5]

@MusicJohn

I totally disagree with you. The very reason you can not connect a headphone to the 7D to monitor audio levels makes a visual reference an absolute MUST HAVE !!!

At least you can see when it's peaking into the red zone, and you could then adjust the levels accordingly. But since that is not the case, this feature of the firmware update is a complete waste of time. Canon should have created the possibility to keep the dB meter on the screen whilst recording, and make it possible to adjust the levels during recording by using the main dail.

I didn't say that. I said a visual reference alone was pretty much worthless. Read my post again and tell me I didn't outline my monitoring (with headphones) solution as well as that used by others (i.e. zooms etc)

Here's how audio mixing for live video works... Get a reference peak tone from your sound mixer. Like a 1k tone with the faders open. Set your camera up so that the tone is a solid -18db. Thats your audio set as far as the camera goes. Nothing from your mixer is going to spike much above this, you have given the camera plenty of headroom. Very important for digital recording.

You then ride the levels on the mixer, be it an SQN field type mixer, or a breakout box with level controls like a beachtek. This device will have some form of VU's and a headphone socket.

It would be jolly lovely to have live VU's on the camera back, but they aren't an indication of the quality of the audio, only the strength of the signal.

If you are serious enough to care about any of this then I cannot accept that you would not want a way of hearing what your microphone and mixer is hearing.

No the 7D implementation is not ideal. Never was and probably never now will be. The camera isn't really set up for on the fly adjustment either (its a camera, not a video camera) but hey, if you have the correct external gear then you use that.

Live VU meters would solve another 5% of the cameras audio deficiencies. That AGC can now be disabled solves about 50% of the audio deficiencies.

 

[sick_666]

high ISO IQ is better now? :

 

[marekjoz]

These main features regarding RAW manipulation are important if you mainly use DPP - you can work on later with already optimized, "CA-free" file but only in DPP. If you use Lightroom anyway, then it's of course totally useless.
Fast exporting to jpg after some initial changes, like WB, picture style, noise reduction, CA reduction and distortion redution are good if you need to send your file fast after some sport event and you're on your way home sitting in a train without a laptop
Anyway - nice features. You can take your camera to the doctor and waiting in the line manipulate your files saved on a CF card
I can confirm - no way to manipulate RAWs taken with prior version of firmware.

 

[Musicjohn]

I didn't say that. I said a visual reference alone was pretty much worthless. .../... Get a reference peak tone from your sound mixer. .../...It would be jolly lovely to have live VU's on the camera back, but they aren't an indication of the quality of the audio, only the strength of the signal. .../... If you are serious enough to care about any of this then I cannot accept that you would not want a way of hearing what your microphone and mixer is hearing.

Still don't agree. First of all, I have 15 years of experience recording concerts, so I am aware of what the IDEAL setup should be. But we're talking about all those events where you can't get a line from a mixing-console and you're working with an external mic, like the Rode stereo video mic. In that case, being able to monitor the audio level is a MUST. Sure, you can't judge the quality of the sound by looking at the dB meters, but at least you can make sure it doesn't clip, which means distortion, which in turn means NO QUALITY at all. So even with the ability of AGC being turned off, there is still a great risk of clipping, unless you can actually see on the screen what the audio levels are doing. So, I'd turn it around. 5% for being able to turn off AGC (with AGC on there is actually less chance of audio clipping) and 95% for being able to view the audio levels on screen.

 

[paul13walnut5]

@musicjohn

First of all, I have 15 years of experience recording concerts, so I am aware of what the IDEAL setup should be.

Congratulations. So on that basis you would really be expected to see manual levels & AGC off as a step towards a good thing?

But we're talking about all those events where you can't get a line from a mixing-console and you're working with an external mic, like the Rode stereo video mic.

I'm not. Rode Stereo video mic is a toy. It's like putting go faster stripes on a smart car and expecting it to drive like a porsche. I do have a sennheiser MKE300, which is smarter go faster stripes. But it's still the wrong perspective, wrong pick up (rear lobe) for on camera use.

The only folk who will care about decent audio to the point where they will play with levels are likely to be using better gear than camera top mics.

Sure, you can't judge the quality of the sound by looking at the dB meters, but at least you can make sure it doesn't clip, which means distortion, which in turn means NO QUALITY at all. So even with the ability of AGC being turned off, there is still a great risk of clipping, unless you can actually see on the screen what the audio levels are doing. So, I'd turn it around. 5% for being able to turn off AGC (with AGC on there is actually less chance of audio clipping) and 95% for being able to view the audio levels on screen.

Which is why I advocate the use of an interface device such as a beachtek. If sound is that important to you.

I think you have unreasonable expectations for a DSLR to behave handle and operate like a professional level video camera without ancillary devices. Even with constant VU's how would you expect to do on the fly adjustment? Via the control already used for shutter, or via the control already used for aperture.

You have to accept that it's not an ideal device for recording audio, was never designed or marketed as such.
If you can't applaud the much belated progress, or can't accept that professional audio requires a different approach to popping a $100 mic on top, then I don't really feel that we are going to advance the discussion in any meaningful way.

If it's any help to you at all, then look up beachteks. They have 2x XLRs. Mic/Line level switching, Mono / Stereo (more like linear stereo / mixed channell) switching, visual VU scale and a headphone socket. If you buy the model up (the DXA-SLR) then you also get phantom power. This will transform the 7D into a much more capable device on the audio front, no doubt helping you in your next 15 years recording concerts.

 

[ajmills]

The genesis of this problem is that the 7D dates from a time when video was still something of an after thought, even to this day, unless you buy a dedicated video camera such as the EOS c300, there is no way to get XLRs (the default professional mic connection) into a DSLR.

You sort of can - you can use a Zoom H4N to take the XLR connections, then feed the Zoom's headphone output into the camera's mic socket. Bit of a bodge, but it works. However, I'd expect people would be using the Zoom to record with anyway.

As for the firmware update - I think I will leave mine for now and see if Canon comes out with any updates over the next couple of months. I don't think there's much in it that I really need...

 

[paul13walnut5]

@ajmills

You sort of can - you can use a Zoom H4N to take the XLR connections, then feed the Zoom's headphone output into the camera's mic socket. Bit of a bodge, but it works.

I meant as standard out of the box. Elsewhere in this post and thread I detail the external options such as the zoom and (my preference) the beachtek.

I am with you on the waiting bit. Last time round canon launched two firmwares in a week. I'll let the early adopters break it or their cameras first, and if the haven't after two weeks I'll probably load it.

HAS ANYBODY tried to process the CR2's from 7Dfw2 via exsisting DPP or ACR based apps?
How did that work out? Curious as I shoot RAW a lot.

 

[Nick Gombinsky]

Big disappointment on my side. I was expecting the audio volume bars during movie recording to stay on screen, so you can actually monitor that the audio does not clip, and if so, adjust accordingly. I record a lot of music performances, and really need the manual audio controls.

I mean, why provide a feature called "manual audio control" when there is nothing to monitor or adjust when recording?

The fact that Canon now gives me a dB meter and more adjustment notches prior to recording, does not have any value at all. They may as well not have bothered!

If you're recording musicians, I'd recommend getting a mixer and looking after the sound that way. And then output to the camera. Now the camera won't raise the gain when there is a pause.

The big plus in manual audio controls is that: Now you can record from a wireless mic or a mixer (pretty common on studios or low budget docos or a lot of other scenarios) where before, the sound mixing would become totally wrecked with AGC.

 

[marekjoz]

HAS ANYBODY tried to process the CR2's from 7Dfw2 via exsisting DPP or ACR based apps?
How did that work out? Curious as I shoot RAW a lot.

Here are two pictures, one processed in camera, one processed in DPP. Settings applied:
1. in camera - change WB to daylight, change picture style to Faithful (all sliders zero), apply CA correction, apply Peripheral Illumination correction, apply Distortion Correction, Change size to L (HQ)

2. in DPP - change WB to daylight, change picture style to Faithful (all sliders zero), apply DLO correction (50), apply Peripheral Illumination correction (32 default for this lens setting), apply Distortion Correction (100), Change size to L with the best quality.

No changes in NR, ALO, color space.
The untouched RAW converted in DPP in next post

 

[marekjoz]

3. No changes, RAW converted in DPP straight from the camera - no WB, picture style, DLO, peripheral immluminatio, distortion correction. Change size to L with the best quality.

 

[colin1984]

Neither on Canon.at or Canon.de the Firware is available for Windows only for Mac so i just downloaded the canon.us Firmware hopefully it will work

 

[paul13walnut5]

Cheers marek

Not seeing the first two in camera images here.

May I ask, was your version of DPP an exsisting version or did you have to update?

Many thanks

 

[liv_img]

I like how Canon has a middle finger up to all the 1D IV buyers, the 7D get's a major 2.0 firmware update
and 1D IV is still at 1.1.1

Granted the 1D IV works great but 1D IV was announced later than the 7D an now it is already discontinued
from production with no new improvements in the firmware.

If you ask Canon they probably won't admit 1D IV ever existed and laugh at whoever bought it.

Absolutely true.

 

[marekjoz]

Cheers marek

Not seeing the first two in camera images here.

May I ask, was your version of DPP an exsisting version or did you have to update?

Many thanks

Yes, I wanted to make it quick (as I have sth else to do right now) and hoped there won't be differences between camera and DPP processing. Comparison I saw on site after having put the files and was surprised what I saw. There are differences, so I removed the files, repeated the process and achieved the same results!
Now I'm really upset because I think I make some mistake because I don't believe there is so much difference!
What I see is also some difference in color tone. I observed now an error in DPP - no matter what picture style setting you set, you will also see "Standard" in File Information as well in CR2 as in JPG

The lens used was 70-200 F4 L IS, so with full support for DLO, peripheral and distortion. After applying distortion correction in camera, the picture looks quite different and seems to be more cropped. Now I need to repeat it using some other test object.

DPP 3.11.31.0 on Mac, 7D with firmware 2.0.0. Shot in RAW.

I think it needs some deeper examination, what exactly goes on in a camera and how it corresponds to settings in DPP. I feel now like guys, who found out, that neutrinos are faster than light

 

[Ew]

I didn't say that. I said a visual reference alone was pretty much worthless. .../... Get a reference peak tone from your sound mixer. .../...It would be jolly lovely to have live VU's on the camera back, but they aren't an indication of the quality of the audio, only the strength of the signal. .../... If you are serious enough to care about any of this then I cannot accept that you would not want a way of hearing what your microphone and mixer is hearing.

Still don't agree. First of all, I have 15 years of experience recording concerts, so I am aware of what the IDEAL setup should be. But we're talking about all those events where you can't get a line from a mixing-console and you're working with an external mic, like the Rode stereo video mic. In that case, being able to monitor the audio level is a MUST. Sure, you can't judge the quality of the sound by looking at the dB meters, but at least you can make sure it doesn't clip, which means distortion, which in turn means NO QUALITY at all. So even with the ability of AGC being turned off, there is still a great risk of clipping, unless you can actually see on the screen what the audio levels are doing. So, I'd turn it around. 5% for being able to turn off AGC (with AGC on there is actually less chance of audio clipping) and 95% for being able to view the audio levels on screen.

Agreed.

The AD converters on any of these bodies (7D, 5D included) are pretty much below what you would be getting from a rebel line kit lens 10 years ago (analogy here !) - and usable really for post sync reference.

As mentioned earlier, the Zoom is a good way to start, running the out mon into the line in on the camera. Even better, run some Sankin lavs through a lectrlsonic radio system to the Zoom (or other recorded), and maybe a senheiser 416 shotgun (short) on a boom - which again can be either on phantom from the zoom, or powered via wireless plugon.

On screen levels Are a great addition, monitoring would be even better - isn't there an ML option to monitor on the 5D through USB - alas Canon won't give this to us on the 7D.

Either way - gotta approach the sound part same as the optics - and the good stuff costs $$$. Unless of course you are happy with the Rebel kit lens in all situations.

 

[paul13walnut5]

The audio has been on a par with what i've been getting from digi's and dvcams for years. For my purposes (interview dialogue and ambient) it's entirely adequate. I use a k6/me66 mainly with G3 ew112's occassionaly.

The pre-amps are horrific, but the mics I'm using are hot enough to keep them low, the AGC disable feature on the beachtek was a practical work around, but I'm delighted to finally be able to set audio in camera on the 7D.

I've been using my T3i more and more for video, the 7D is at last catching up (and has intermediate ISO's)

Whilst I agree that you only going to record crap with crap lenses and crap audio gear, I can't get too upset about any audio codec shortcomings when the picture is MP4...

On bigger jobs we'll have a dedicated sound op with their own recorder, and we won't be shooting on a DSLR.

For the run and gun single op stuff that makes up most of my work, DSLRs with all their intrinsic caveats are up to the job.

Live VU's would be lovely (deja vu) but they alone will not solve the 7D's physical shortcomings.

A zoom might but it's double the files to synch, and extra device to charge, carry and hit record on (the beachtek bolts on to the bottom of the camera) different hammers for different nuts.

 

[viggen61]

There's been an updated manual for the 7D out for about a month online from Canon. It addresses a couple issues I've seen posted about here:

The new stills raw-processor and ratings-feature don't work on stills taken prior to the update. Rating won't work on videos prior to update.

Updated 7D Manual P. 191: You cannot process the RAW images or resize JPEG images shot when the firmware version was 1.x.x with the camera updated to version 2.x.x.

I think it needs some deeper examination, what exactly goes on in a camera and how it corresponds to settings in DPP. I feel now like guys, who found out, that neutrinos are faster than light.

Updated 7D Manual P. 196: Processing RAW images in the camera will not produce the same results as processing RAW images with Digital Photo Professional.

I'll be downloading & installing when I get home tonight. And checking the revised manual for more "gotchas" like this!


BTW - the revised manual has this on the cover page:

This manual is for the EOS 7D installed with firmware version 2.0.0 or later.

 

[marekjoz]

There's been an updated manual for the 7D out for about a month online from Canon. It addresses a couple issues I've seen posted about here:

The new stills raw-processor and ratings-feature don't work on stills taken prior to the update. Rating won't work on videos prior to update.

Updated 7D Manual P. 191: You cannot process the RAW images or resize JPEG images shot when the firmware version was 1.x.x with the camera updated to version 2.x.x.

I think it needs some deeper examination, what exactly goes on in a camera and how it corresponds to settings in DPP. I feel now like guys, who found out, that neutrinos are faster than light.

Updated 7D Manual P. 196: Processing RAW images in the camera will not produce the same results as processing RAW images with Digital Photo Professional.

I'll be downloading & installing when I get home tonight. And checking the revised manual for more "gotchas" like this!


BTW - the revised manual has this on the cover page:

This manual is for the EOS 7D installed with firmware version 2.0.0 or later.

Who'd ever care reading manuals Seriously I didn't care because I thought my 7d would be sold until 2.0 firmware is ready and out. Thanks for mentioning that there should be a difference, what I happily managed to see with my own eyes

 

[Rockets95]

Hello, has anyone had the opertunity to use the *** module? I have had mine for months, and it's my main reason for wanting this update. Go, figure I would be away without access to my computer.

Thanks

I have a related question. Will this firmware update support any of the non-Canon *** loggers?

 

[nicku]

Today i had upgraded my 7D firmware.... Good i missed that extra buffer when i was shooting fast moving action.

This upgrade have a dark side two .... no 7DMk2 this year... ((