Canon EOS 7D Mark II Not Coming? [CR1]

[sanj]

This thread reeks of trolling by CR.

 

[YuengLinger]

Maybe Canon is just trying to goose sales of the remaining stock of 7D?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Bizarre as this is one camera that had been straight out mentioned to the press from the highest levels of Canon themselves.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.

Hah good luck with getting everyone to jump to the $20,000 lenses. Plus what about all those serious birders who already have those and still like the extra reach?

I mean if they manage a 39MP FF at 8fps at the 5 series range then I guess it wouldn't be such an odd move, and maybe that is what they need to do anyway. But that is sure not like the old Canon of late so it seems doubtful.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.

That is simply not true. A 400mm lens on a cropped FF image is exactly the same as 400mm on a crop sensor. The only [current] benefits of a crop sensor is sensor/camera production costs, cropped image resolution, image, fps, and lens size/weight.

Umm yeah but who cares a whit whether it projects the same image, that's utterly meaningless to the reach limited photographer. The part I bolded is kinda THE point though no? When you are talking long lengths and reach limited who cares a white about FOV and all that nonsense, all you care about it pixels per duck and the current aps-c generation has so far always had higher photosite density so yeah you would need a longer lens to make up for it (and if you were already there then you are stuck).

Cropped image resolution is a valid issue, but the 1Dx and D4 prove, for most people, that image is not about mp,

But for THIS market it was all about the photosite density.

While the current D800 may be "slow" in that regard, I would be very surprised if the next iteration did not provide for 6+ fps, and I suspect the same will be true that Canon's first or second "big" mp cameras will also solve or come close to solving the fps issue.

Yeah as I said they could at least get to 39MP on FF and at 8fps and at a 5 series price and body size then sure. I haven't seen Canon wanting to give that much to the non 1 series ranges though so it seems doubtful. It would be quite an exciting move if they did though! If it just arrives in an $8000 brick that would still leave many of the 7D series crowd out in the cold for another year or two or three. But who knows maybe they want to really jump back and be kings and again and will pop out a 5D or 2D at 7-8fps, 39MP, high low ISO DR, 4k compressed video, 2k RAW or 12-14bit lightly compressed (and without smearing like 5D3 without ML) and the same low moire/aliasing of the 5D3. That would be a heck of a beast.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Yes indeed the reach is achieved via a smaller sensor and more densely packed pixels. So the same reach can be achieved via a 40-50 megapixel camera full frame camera like the 36 megapixel Nikon. Such a camera's files would be a little unwieldy I suppose, where the crop frames of like 20 megapixels isn't.

If they were smart they could just offer a cropped mode file like Nikon does instead of only offering sRAW/mRAW which are compromised and lose all reach as well. Maybe it could drive 8fps aps-c crop from a 39MP sensor and then drop back to 6fps for FF.

Actually this really doesn't sound all that far fetched, if the 5D4 comes late 2014, think how many years since the D800 which did 4fps at 36MP so 6fps at 39MP and 8fps cropped such be beyond a breeze, anything less and the new body might quickly be surpassed. They may even manage it 8fps FF by then.

So yeah perhaps there isn't so much of a need for the 7D2 then. I guess they could bump that a bit higher still so you'd lose a little reach but still maybe not worth it. I'd rather have it all in the one 5D4 than having to pair bodies.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Actually, thinking about it more, if it means what it could mean for a 5D4 then I'm exactly super hoping this CR1 is a CR3.

 

[takesome1]

You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.

That is simply not true. A 400mm lens on a cropped FF image is exactly the same as 400mm on a crop sensor. The only [current] benefits of a crop sensor is sensor/camera production costs, cropped image resolution, image, fps, and lens size/weight.

No, in fact his statement is true. While it is true the lens produces the same image, the sensors do not see the same image. The crop sensor only sees a portion of the image. So while we know that you can crop an image with many FF and get about the same quality out of 7D sensor, the comparison does not stop there.

The framing of your image is an important difference between a crop and FF sensor. It is best practice to frame your shot as it needs to be framed rather than crop. It is better to practice this rather than approach a picture saying you will crop it. Another issue with framing is your ability to acquire a target. For me personally I found that a crop sensor on a 500mm body (800mm imaginary focal length) gave just about the maximum framing that I could use for hand held fast moving birds. The smaller window of view makes it more difficult to pick up the subject. For me the 1D IV sensor is about right.

So for me on a crop body I would not consider the 600mm, the FOV would bit to tight on a crop body and 500mm would be about right. For the 1D IV either a 500 or 600 would work. For a FF I would have to go with the 600mm.

So yes, going FF over crop sensor does drive the sales of the longer telephoto lenses.

A 7D II sensor that will produce superior or comparable IQ to a FF body would be of great interest. I doubt MintChocs logic that Canon would not release a high grade crop sensor to protect higher end lines. Instead I think Canon would jack the price of such a camera up and hope it increased sales of the 300mm and 500mm lenses

A couple of things:

With a 400mm FF combo, not having it cropped in-camera gives you the breathing space to not 100% follow the action in the centre of the frame, and the ability to see outside of the intended frame to help find your subject

And, what about simply using a TC with a 400 on FF?

It would give you more breathing room. With the current version of the 7D there are many reasons that a 1D IV or a 1D X would be superior. Most of which have nothing to do with framing and cropping. The AF system alone makes the 1D IV a far superior camera. The low light abilities and the AF system of the 1D X make even more superior.

But there is a question, what if a 7D II sensor closes this gap?

As far as a TC, it slows down AF system and breaks down IQ. But if there is an argument that a crop sensor would cannibalize 600mm sales why would Canon release a TC that might do the same. It isn't going to happen.

The fanatic birders are already using teleconverters on their 600's, so the logic is flawed... If only they would put the 1200F5.6 back into production

Tracking small fast moving BIF's with a 2x TC on a 600mm using a 7D would require more skill than I possess.
Maybe I should practice more.

 

[Lichtgestalt]

No 7D II – a troll.

 

[vscd]

As the 70D goes up into the more professional line (with sealings like a EOS1n, for example) the 7DM2 could really get missed. Maybe the 7DM2 had an older sensor with no DualPixel-AF and they underrated the success of the 70D-Sensor.

Afterall there were Rumours for Canon to get into Medium Format Sensors anythime soon, so maybe the Fullframe is the new Crop

 

[Lichtgestalt]

As the 70D goes up into the more professional line (with sealings like a EOS1n, for example) the 7DM2 could really get missed. Maybe the 7DM2 had an older sensor with no DualPixel-AF and they underrated the success of the 70D-Sensor.

Afterall there were Rumours for Canon to get into Medium Format Sensors anythime soon, so maybe the Fullframe is the new Crop

yeah im already loving the canon MF lens lineup....

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

We are going to have a D400 and a 7D MK II, but only if the market for DSLR's firms up. Right now, its in free fall and spending millions to put out a major new camera does not make economic sense. Sales of the 70D are slower than expected, buyers are going for lower priced cameras if at all. This has really hurt the grossly over priced mirrorless market, but it will also recover.
The question is When.

I happened to buy a used D300s for $575 recently, it has a lot of great pro features, but not a match for the 7D. It certainly looks like that market segment has been put on a back burner.

 

[Lichtgestalt]

We are going to have a D400 and a 7D MK II, but only if the market for DSLR's firms up. Right now, its in free fall and spending millions to put out a major new camera does not make economic sense.

cipa numbers.

Here at Futuresource we expect the interchangeable lens segment to grow 5% in 2013, to reach close to 21 million units shipped.

doesn´t look like "free fall" to me.

Sales of the 70D are slower than expected,

source?

 

[candc]

high ranking canon execs have said there will be a 7dii in interviews. i would put more stock in that than a cr1 rumor. the 7d is a booming success and still sells well now after how long? the "7dii" name itself is enough to sell cameras and i am sure canon knows this. they can sell it for $1000 more than the 70d and i am sure it will not cost them that much more to produce.

one thing canon has a reputation for doing is not making a replacement for a product that continues to sell as with the 100-400. i can't blame them for that. the 7d is the same

 

[vscd]

>yeah im already loving the canon MF lens lineup....

I guess you liked the EOS-M lineup, too. Didn't you?

It's no problem to kick the market with a Canon EOS-1DxS and a startingline of 75mm 2.8, 40mm f4 and a 150mm 3.5. The Lenses were calculated decades ago.

 

[Lichtgestalt]

>yeah im already loving the canon MF lens lineup....

I guess you liked the EOS-M lineup, too. Didn't you?

It's no problem to kick the market with a Canon EOS-1DxS and a startingline of 75mm 2.8, 40mm f4 and a 150mm 3.5. The Lenses were calculated decades ago.

you are my hero... but i already have a phase one.

and it is a probelm to enter the market when companys who are in the MF biz already struggle.

 

[Richard8971]

I wouldn't get all worked up. If Canon makes a 7D2 then they make a 7D2, if they don't then oh well.

I am perfectly happy with my 7D. It's a workhorse and built like a tank. I love the images and since I am not a "pixel peeper" and blow my images up to ungodly sizes on my computer screen, high ISO shooting is no problem either. High ISO images from the 7D look fantastic, even in print sizes up to 11 x 14.

Even if my 7D breaks (or gets ripped off), there are still plenty of them out there for sale at a fantastic price. Less than a grand for a refurb with a 1 year warranty from Canon? Can't top that!

Even if Canon does make a 7D2, I won't be quick to replace my current 7. It's perfect for what I use it for.

D

 

[jrista]

We are going to have a D400 and a 7D MK II, but only if the market for DSLR's firms up. Right now, its in free fall and spending millions to put out a major new camera does not make economic sense.

cipa numbers.

Here at Futuresource we expect the interchangeable lens segment to grow 5% in 2013, to reach close to 21 million units shipped.

doesn´t look like "free fall" to me.

Sales of the 70D are slower than expected,

source?

Thank you! Good to have some good charts to back up the simple fact that the DSLR market is nothing stable right now. Freefall, hah!

 

[pwp]

It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.

Quite right. My 300 f/2.8is is great for my purposes on the x1.3 crop APS-H 1D4 but if it was an all-FF world, I'd find myself forced into a 400 f/2.8isII purchase. If there is no 7D2, I may just stock up on good 1D4 bodies.

-pw

 

[dgatwood]

It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.

Quite right. My 300 f/2.8is is great for my purposes on the x1.3 crop APS-H 1D4 but if it was an all-FF world, I'd find myself forced into a 400 f/2.8isII purchase. If there is no 7D2, I may just stock up on good 1D4 bodies.

Assuming Canon eventually gets on the high-MP bandwagon (defined as the same pixel density as a crop, but with a larger sensor), I feel like that would make high-end crop bodies irrelevant—particularly if it had a slide-up mask to crop the OVF at 1.6:1 so that you could frame things as though it were a crop body (but with the advantage of a big safety margin).

About the only remaining reason to use a crop body at that point would be if you needed to use EF-S lenses, and given that those are mostly at the low end, it could well be that most 7D owners would see that as no great loss (except, perhaps, for the venerable 10-22).