Canon EOS M Vanishes from Canon USA Web Site

[Dylan777]

The SL1 is built for a different price level and a different user than the XT-1. There is some overlap, but it's not going to match a much more expensive camera like the XT1. Canon makes more feature-rich cameras in the the $1,300 price range of the XT1, just not in the size factor that you want.

I share your desire for better small products. For example, I would love to see an SL1 with AFMA and other higher-level features. But the typical SL1 user would never use AFMA, would not want to know about it, and would not use lenses that benefit from it. So Canon chose not to clutter the SL1 with too much stuff. Designing a camera for a type of user (e.g., beginner level, casual user) makes good business sense, even if it doesn't please every photographer. Many camera buyers are instantly turned off by too much complexity.

Canon actually issued a major firmware upgrade for the 7D in 2012 (when the camera was nearly 3 years old), so Fuji is not unique in this respect:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/06/28/Canon-EOS-7D-firmware-v2-major-update
Also, Fuji has been upgrading some sluggish aspects of their cameras, which is great, but Canon does not need to do this.

That's my point. Canon will always treat smaller as cheaper. EF-S and EF-M as beginners. Only big and heavy is good. FF is for some reason the 'holy grail' and magical, when in fact it's an arbitrary size that gained popularity some 50+ years ago, and which Canon is marketing to death as the holy grail because that's where their product line and profit margin is at.

I've no doubt that Canon will always have the margin, volume and revenue. But for those that want a compact high-end system, just forget about Canon. Canon will never deliver.

They will if there is a HIGH-DEMAND for it. Canon goal is to make $$$

If you get a chance, try compare 5D III + 40mm pancake Vs A7r + FE 55mm, not much space or weight saving. The best fit for A7 series is FE35mm.

My wife likes her RX1 and I like my A7r + FE 55mm. The only lens that I might add to my Sony is UWA. So, you can see the market segment for FF mirrorless is not that big, unless, we enjoy shooting big lenses on tiny body, then .................... :

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

We know that for some types of photography , full frame gives the best results . But APS- C has not disappeared from the market, and it will never happen . A few years ago, many said they would not buy EF- S lenses because in the future " would be all full frame cameras ."
We know that a sports car with 400 horsepower is spectacular to run on roads , but not suitable for a walk with the whole family . Does compact cars with 80 horsepower engine will disappear from the market ? There is market for both cars .

But where they fit compact cameras luxury ?
They are like sports motorcycles 1200 cc, and the price of them is more expensive than a popular car. Will someone take the family to stroll this motorcycle ?

Most fashion photographers and art will continue with full frame , but APS-C may increase its share in the market and photojournalism events .
The day people stop buying compact cars , I'll believe in the disappearance of APS-C cameras .

 

[jdramirez]

I've used screens and I've used viewfinders. I prefer viewfinders. I'm not alone. As for bokeh generated by software... possibly... because it is being done now... and rather poorly... but possible.

Full Frame and Optical Viewfinders are the past. APS-C/DX, M4/3 and One Inch cameras with EVF are the future.

In the not-to-distant-past Full Frame 35mm cameras where called Miniature Cameras, and most professionals didn't use them. In the not-to-distant-future only hobbyists will use Full Frame, and pros will have moved-on to smaller formats.

Did I hear someone whining about bokeh?? Bokeh will be handled by the camera, sorta like custom white balance is today -- just dial in how little or how much you want.

Time marches on!

 

[Etienne]

Why stop there? In the future, owning a camera will be a thing of the past, cameras will be completely automated and ubiquitous: in the air, on every street corner, inside cars, outside cars, in you pen, glasses, drinking cup, toothbrush. Professional photogs will just be resellers, upselling images from other services for a commission. Don't like an image, ... click on glamorize and sportify ... turn it into a movie, for $1.99 extra, add music, script, dialog, and sound effects, $2.49, ... $2.99 to put it at the top of social media.

Better sell everything now!

Yes. Except that NOW, is the time where smaller than FF formats are priming to be very attractive alternatives for the mainstream enthusiast. Provided that people can be open minded and try the format and see if it suits themselves. And if smaller than FF format happens to suit your needs, and if you happen to not go over 85mm 99% of the time, instead of waiting for the next EOS-M3, waiting for Canon to expand the EF-M line-up, waiting for a handful of EF-S primes, which Canon will likely botch anyways, Fuji and M4/3 are much better alternatives than Canon.

There are two things I don't want to give up: IQ, and ergonomics.
I have a 5DIII and an EOS-M (I also have a Samsung EX-F2, and some other cameras that I don't use much) ... I use my 5DIII most of the time. I like the EOS-M, but it is not as easy to use as the 5DIII, and the IQ drops in low light while the 5DIII continues to shine.

I think the 5DIII could stand to lose some weight and size, but not too much, because then you'll lose buttons and ergonomics start to suffer. Ergonomics really matter when you have to respond quickly before the moment is gone forever.

The Sony A7s looks promising, but I'll definitely wait for reviews. The A7 DPR review was not that great, A7r was better, but still video is compromised. And some people report that they find the small size frustrating at times.

There's never going to be an ultimate do everything format, but Full Frame will continue to outperform small sensors in pretty much every way. Phillip Bloom has already complained about low light video performance of the GH4, and it's the pinnacle of m4/3.

The future is difficult to predict, other than to say it will be exiting for photography and video. I wish I was 30 years younger because this party is just getting started!

 

[BiscottiGelato]

but Full Frame will continue to outperform small sensors in pretty much every way.

Every way but size and price.

I think I've made my case. Obviously it's uphill battle in a Canon forum where most just want to see a 5Dmk4 coming in at over 1kg, and a 24-70 2.8 IS coming in at another kg or something. But I'm not speaking to those who are die hard FF fans anyways.

Instead I want to tell those that have always been asking for a EF-S 22mm 1.8, a small size light weight 7D, a EOS-M with 2 million dots EVF, etc... To tell them that the wait is over. Just be prepared with an open mind when it comes to EVF, pickup a XT-1 or an EM-1 and see for yourself.

 

[sdsr]

Why stop there? I don't see the point buying crop or 4/3 sensor when A7 series offers better low light shooting with 35mm sensor.

If size and weight is not a factor, I don't think this discussion would've existed in the first place, as most everyone would've remained on DSLRs, A7 wouldn't be the answer in this case. But if size and weight is a factor, then going down to Fuji and M43rd is necessary.

The other problem with A7 is the lens line-up.....

If size and weight really matter, M43 beats Fuji easily (and, perhaps more important, Olympus M43 bodies have excellent IBIS, something which I don't think any Fuji X camera has); and it's worth noting that the Sony/Zeiss 35mm 2.8 is more-or-less the same size and weight as its Olympus M43 equivalent, the 17mm 1.8....

You're right, in a way, re the A7 series lens line-up, but it can be augmented easily enough by the impatient via adapters and I rather doubt any Fuji-X lens-body combination can conjure up images as good as a Sony A7/A7r + either Sony/Zeiss prime (or, for that matter, a Sony a6000 plus same). There's much that's appealing about Fuji-X cameras, but until they overcome their obsession with smoothness and noise-suppression (at the expense of clarity/detail) I won't consider buying another. You may think the Canon SL1 is a piece of cheap junk compared to a Fuji X, but I prefer the images I get from my SL1 to those I got from one of the latter during the brief time I owned it.

I find it more than a tad perverse that the top-of-the-line APS-C and M43 mirrorless camera bodies from Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic cost around the same as a Sony A7....

 

[c.d.embrey]

Why? Such general pronouncements are baffling. How does someone presume to know what all pros in all areas of photography will do in the future?

All you have to do is look at the past. When was the last time you saw a Photo Journalist using a 4x5 camera ??? A Sports Shooter using a Hasselblad ??? The list goes on and on. The New York Times and Sports Illustrated have both used iPhone photos. Like I said "time marches on!"

BTW there are still people shooting wet plate on large format cameras. Nothing ever goes completely away

 

[zlatko]

Why? Such general pronouncements are baffling. How does someone presume to know what all pros in all areas of photography will do in the future?

All you have to do is look at the past. When was the last time you saw a Photo Journalist using a 4x5 camera ??? A Sports Shooter using a Hasselblad ??? The list goes on and on. The New York Times and Sports Illustrated have both used iPhone photos. Like I said "time marches on!"

BTW there are still people shooting wet plate on large format cameras. Nothing ever goes completely away

The prediction above was that all pros will be using small format cameras (smaller than full frame) and that only hobbyists will use full frame, and that this would happen in the not too distant future. The past does not tell us that. If the march to smaller formats were so inevitable, then NO commercial or landscape photographer would be using medium format today. They would have all moved to full frame or smaller. That's obviously not not true, as many continue to use medium format, as do some portrait photographers. Likewise they won't all move to smaller than full-frame in the near or not too distant future.

 

[BiscottiGelato]

Why stop there? I don't see the point buying crop or 4/3 sensor when A7 series offers better low light shooting with 35mm sensor.

If size and weight is not a factor, I don't think this discussion would've existed in the first place, as most everyone would've remained on DSLRs, A7 wouldn't be the answer in this case. But if size and weight is a factor, then going down to Fuji and M43rd is necessary.

The other problem with A7 is the lens line-up.....

If size and weight really matter, M43 beats Fuji easily (and, perhaps more important, Olympus M43 bodies have excellent IBIS, something which I don't think any Fuji X camera has); and it's worth noting that the Sony/Zeiss 35mm 2.8 is more-or-less the same size and weight as its Olympus M43 equivalent, the 17mm 1.8....

You're right, in a way, re the A7 series lens line-up, but it can be augmented easily enough by the impatient via adapters and I rather doubt any Fuji-X lens-body combination can conjure up images as good as a Sony A7/A7r + either Sony/Zeiss prime (or, for that matter, a Sony a6000 plus same). There's much that's appealing about Fuji-X cameras, but until they overcome their obsession with smoothness and noise-suppression (at the expense of clarity/detail) I won't consider buying another. You may think the Canon SL1 is a piece of cheap junk compared to a Fuji X, but I prefer the images I get from my SL1 to those I got from one of the latter during the brief time I owned it.

I find it more than a tad perverse that the top-of-the-line APS-C and M43 mirrorless camera bodies from Fuji, Olympus and Panasonic cost around the same as a Sony A7....

I think the smoothness problem you are speaking of is predominantly to do with RAW processing by 3rd party programs. This is quickly changing as 3rd party vendors better understand how Fuji X-Tran RAW should be dealt with.

JPG to JPG I think Fuji is probably one of the best APS-C there is out there.

M4/3rd is great also. I just prefer the Fuji lens line-up along with ergonomics. Their lens release rate, accessories release rate, rate of acknowledging and fixing issues, rate of churning out FW, etc just instill confidence that they are committed. Which is something that cannot be said for Canon for their APS-C line-up.

 

[BiscottiGelato]

The prediction above was that all pros will be using small format cameras (smaller than full frame) and that only hobbyists will use full frame, and that this would happen in the not too distant future. The past does not tell us that. If the march to smaller formats were so inevitable, then NO commercial or landscape photographer would be using medium format today. They would have all moved to full frame or smaller. That's obviously not not true, as many continue to use medium format, as do some portrait photographers. Likewise they won't all move to smaller than full-frame in the near or not too distant future.

There was a time that Wedding photographers uses mostly Medium Format, etc for weddings. Then it's mostly 35mm. Nowadays there's even people that's doing paid weddings via Fuji or M43. Some will stay at 35mm of course. But MILCs are now getting to a point that some are willing to bet their livelihood on them. Whether cropped cameras will replace FF as the predominant format for various professional work (not for all of them, just as Medium Format still exists), only time will tell. But it can be assured that as cropped systems become better and better that more and more will adopt it for paid work.

 

[EchoLocation]

What's really missing is a kick-ass M3 with truly tracking-capable AF and top notch EVF and 500 shots battery charge. That would very quickly end the Fuji X-games as well as Sony ex-nex alpha stuff. Not to mention dwarf-sensored micro four-thirds. And it would drive a lot of 1 inch nails into the nikon 1 coffin.

Can't be that hard, Canon ... Just do it! ;-)

A crop sensor mirrorless is not going to threaten the success of the Full Frame Sony a7.

 

[zlatko]

The prediction above was that all pros will be using small format cameras (smaller than full frame) and that only hobbyists will use full frame, and that this would happen in the not too distant future. The past does not tell us that. If the march to smaller formats were so inevitable, then NO commercial or landscape photographer would be using medium format today. They would have all moved to full frame or smaller. That's obviously not not true, as many continue to use medium format, as do some portrait photographers. Likewise they won't all move to smaller than full-frame in the near or not too distant future.

There was a time that Wedding photographers uses mostly Medium Format, etc for weddings. Then it's mostly 35mm. Nowadays there's even people that's doing paid weddings via Fuji or M43. Some will stay at 35mm of course. But MILCs are now getting to a point that some are willing to bet their livelihood on them. Whether cropped cameras will replace FF as the predominant format for various professional work (not for all of them, just as Medium Format still exists), only time will tell. But it can be assured that as cropped systems become better and better that more and more will adopt it for paid work.

Well, I agree with all of that as it's a reasonable, realistic assessment. I disagree with c.d embrey's claims that "In the not-to-distant-future only hobbyists will use Full Frame, and pros will have moved-on to smaller formats." Some hobbyists, yes. Some pros, yes. But it's too much of a blanket statement to be true for everybody. Full frame and optical viewfinders have a lot of appeal for pros, and pros have *very* diverse needs. EVFs and small formats are great, but they don't meet everyone's needs all of the time. I'm using 3 formats for paid work and finding each is good in its way.

 

[c.d.embrey]

The prediction above was that all pros will be using small format cameras (smaller than full frame) and that only hobbyists will use full frame, and that this would happen in the not too distant future. The past does not tell us that. If the march to smaller formats were so inevitable, then NO commercial or landscape photographer would be using medium format today. They would have all moved to full frame or smaller. That's obviously not not true, as many continue to use medium format, as do some portrait photographers. Likewise they won't all move to smaller than full-frame in the near or not too distant future.

There was a time that Wedding photographers uses mostly Medium Format, etc for weddings. Then it's mostly 35mm. Nowadays there's even people that's doing paid weddings via Fuji or M43. Some will stay at 35mm of course. But MILCs are now getting to a point that some are willing to bet their livelihood on them. Whether cropped cameras will replace FF as the predominant format for various professional work (not for all of them, just as Medium Format still exists), only time will tell. But it can be assured that as cropped systems become better and better that more and more will adopt it for paid work.

Well, I agree with all of that as it's a reasonable, realistic assessment. I disagree with c.d embrey's claims that "In the not-to-distant-future only hobbyists will use Full Frame, and pros will have moved-on to smaller formats." Some hobbyists, yes. Some pros, yes. But it's too much of a blanket statement to be true for everybody. Full frame and optical viewfinders have a lot of appeal for pros, and pros have *very* diverse needs. EVFs and small formats are great, but they don't meet everyone's needs all of the time. I'm using 3 formats for paid work and finding each is good in its way.

Since the beginning of photography pros have always moved-on to smaller formats. Really large format cameras were replaced by 8x10 cameras which were replaced by 4x5.

At one time there were 6x9, 6x8, 6x7 and 6x6 medium format film cameras. Then these camera were mostly replaced by 6x4.5 film cameras, which were replaced by 6x4.5 digital. But that doesn't stop Martin Schoeller from shooting covers for Time magazine with 120 film, using a Fuji rangefinder camera (Texas Leica).

Like it or not One Inch cameras are good enough for many pro jobs right now. By the time that the iPhone 7 comes along there will be an App that triggers strobes (just like a Pocket Wizard) And there will be young pros shooting with an iPhone and Profoto strobes

There are some hobbyists (and a few pros) shooting 8x10 cameras. Other hobbyist ares shooting panoramas with 4x10 cameras instead of stitching digital. There are also a few people using Banquet Cameras (7x17 in. and 12x20 in.) Nothing in photography ever truly goes away. The Impossible Project is bringing back 8x10 Polaroid https://www.the-impossible-project.com/8x10/ Me, I'd like to see them bring back Type 55 film. BTW in the future there will be hobbyists added to this group who will use Medium Format and Full Frame

Heraclitus (c. 535 BC – 475 BC) is reputed to have said: "There is nothing permanent except change." Sounds reasonable to me. YMMV.

 

[robbinzo]

Dual pixel AF system in the next EOS M = winning product.
My ha'penny worth.

 

[Dylan777]

The prediction above was that all pros will be using small format cameras (smaller than full frame) and that only hobbyists will use full frame, and that this would happen in the not too distant future. The past does not tell us that. If the march to smaller formats were so inevitable, then NO commercial or landscape photographer would be using medium format today. They would have all moved to full frame or smaller. That's obviously not not true, as many continue to use medium format, as do some portrait photographers. Likewise they won't all move to smaller than full-frame in the near or not too distant future.

There was a time that Wedding photographers uses mostly Medium Format, etc for weddings. Then it's mostly 35mm. Nowadays there's even people that's doing paid weddings via Fuji or M43. Some will stay at 35mm of course. But MILCs are now getting to a point that some are willing to bet their livelihood on them. Whether cropped cameras will replace FF as the predominant format for various professional work (not for all of them, just as Medium Format still exists), only time will tell. But it can be assured that as cropped systems become better and better that more and more will adopt it for paid work.

Well, I agree with all of that as it's a reasonable, realistic assessment. I disagree with c.d embrey's claims that "In the not-to-distant-future only hobbyists will use Full Frame, and pros will have moved-on to smaller formats." Some hobbyists, yes. Some pros, yes. But it's too much of a blanket statement to be true for everybody. Full frame and optical viewfinders have a lot of appeal for pros, and pros have *very* diverse needs. EVFs and small formats are great, but they don't meet everyone's needs all of the time. I'm using 3 formats for paid work and finding each is good in its way.

Since the beginning of photography pros have always moved-on to smaller formats. Really large format cameras were replaced by 8x10 cameras which were replaced by 4x5.

At one time there were 6x9, 6x8, 6x7 and 6x6 medium format film cameras. Then these camera were mostly replaced by 6x4.5 film cameras, which were replaced by 6x4.5 digital. But that doesn't stop Martin Schoeller from shooting covers for Time magazine with 120 film, using a Fuji rangefinder camera (Texas Leica).

Like it or not One Inch cameras are good enough for many pro jobs right now. By the time that the iPhone 7 comes along there will be an App that triggers strobes (just like a Pocket Wizard) And there will be young pros shooting with an iPhone and Profoto strobes

There are some hobbyists (and a few pros) shooting 8x10 cameras. Other hobbyist ares shooting panoramas with 4x10 cameras instead of stitching digital. There are also a few people using Banquet Cameras (7x17 in. and 12x20 in.) Nothing in photography ever truly goes away. The Impossible Project is bringing back 8x10 Polaroid https://www.the-impossible-project.com/8x10/ Me, I'd like to see them bring back Type 55 film. BTW in the future there will be hobbyists added to this group who will use Medium Format and Full Frame

Heraclitus (c. 535 BC – 475 BC) is reputed to have said: "There is nothing permanent except change." Sounds reasonable to me. YMMV.

Tiny camera in jean pocket, but it requires a luggage of speedlite to shoot. Umm.... :

 

[dadgummit]

Dual pixel AF system in the next EOS M = winning product.
My ha'penny worth.

I hope this comes true. I love my little M, yesterday was my daughter's school play and when it came time to leave I chose the M with 18-55stm over the 5d3 and I am glad I did.

I would pre-order the EOS M with dual pixel! That way I can send my M out to be converted to infrared.

 

[jdramirez]

Has the inertia factor been discussed at all? The heavier the body and lens are, the more resistant to movement/torque they are. Our are we assuming in this dystopian future the camera fully adjusts for all hand shake and movement?

 

[AvTvM]

A crop sensor mirrorless is not going to threaten the success of the Full Frame Sony a7.

I totally agree!

That's why I will never pay ludicrous amounts for APS-C sensored mirrorless cameras and lenses that can only handle APS-C imaging circle [like Fuji X-stuff] but will rather wait for the next generation mirrorless FF camera ... as compact as the A7 ... and even more "competent" as a relly universal photographic tool.

Specifically: better AF [fully tracking-capable], fully electronic shutter [absolutely silent, 100% vibration-free], better battery charge [500+ shots] and user interface/ergonomics like a Canon EOS ... with thumb-wheel, back-button AF and mode dial with AvTvM plus 3 custom positions and WiFI and a Canon RT-flash controller built in ... now that I have finally splurged on 600EX-RTs

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

What's really missing is a kick-ass M3 with truly tracking-capable AF and top notch EVF and 500 shots battery charge. That would very quickly end the Fuji X-games as well as Sony ex-nex alpha stuff. Not to mention dwarf-sensored micro four-thirds. And it would drive a lot of 1 inch nails into the nikon 1 coffin.
Can't be that hard, Canon ... Just do it! ;-)

A crop sensor mirrorless is not going to threaten the success of the Full Frame Sony a7.

Success of Sony A7? I have not found any statistics that show large volumes of sales of each model Sony A7.

 

[lescrane]

I've always travels with 2 SLRS ...a XXD series and a Rebel as my "walk around" camera for snapshots or landscapes when my primary shooting is wildlife w/a supertele. I jumped on the M deal last year and it's been great. Now my M and 18-55EF-M comprise my "walk around". I keep it in a waist pouch when I'm shooting w/the telephoto and never miss a grab shot w/o having the extra weight and bulk

I would consider upgrading and spending 600 'ish only if they could upgrade it w/some of the software of the D series, (eg half ISO stops, let me leave autobracketing ON even after the camera turns off), maybe a faster frame rate, most importantly better battery life. At first I wanted an EVF, but am now resigned to doing w/o it...Adding the weight, size and cost would not be worth it. I look at the M as a larger frame, hi IQ alt. to my cell phone, Also, I do not need the 11-22 super wide, but would love to have something a bit longer... eg 15-85, 18-100 etc to go w/the M