Canon Executive Talks EOS M in 2016

[AvTvM]

... So stupid! Many millions of units and gazillions of yen missed, Canon!

cry harder?
many millions of units missed? lol.
[/quote]

If Canon had brought out a worthy, fully competitive EOS-M 1 week before the Sony A6000 was announced ... plus the EF-lenses - offered globally ... at realistic MSRP ... they would have literally sold millions. And could have closed the entire Rebel mirrorflipper line by now. Making even higher profits on MILCs, that can be built by robots at much lower cost.

and by btw .. look what Sony has come with just today. http://www.dpreview.com/news/3240829197/sony-announces-24mp-a6300-mirrorless-camera
Canon execs (& shareholders) WILL cry much harder! Some more gazillion yens in lost sales. 8) ;D

 

[Loswr]

and by btw .. look what Sony has come with just today. http://www.dpreview.com/news/3240829197/sony-announces-24mp-a6300-mirrorless-camera
Canon execs (& shareholders) WILL cry much harder! Some more gazillion yens in lost sales. 8) ;D

Wrong emojis, you meant :

 

[AvTvM]

and by btw .. look what Sony has come with just today. http://www.dpreview.com/news/3240829197/sony-announces-24mp-a6300-mirrorless-camera
Canon execs (& shareholders) WILL cry much harder! Some more gazillion yens in lost sales. 8) ;D

Wrong emojis, you meant :

you're quite right. Should be this one ...

*** MIRRORLESS SURPRISE *** ;D

 

[David Hull]

We want to be #3? What kind of goal is that? They should shoot for #1 that way maybe they'll get to #2. I really don't see why they cannot make something just as good as anything Sony makes, after all they have everything but the sensors.

 

[koenkooi]

I never believed a new M was imminent, but what about some fast primes???

If you don't mind manual focus, I have the two new Rokinon/Samyang primes in hand that I'm reviewing on a M3 body, and they are stunningly good.

I don't mind manual focus, but I do mind manual aperture. During summer the MP-E 65mm is the most used lens on my M1 followed by the EF-S 60mm in MF mode. Aside from a focus confirmation/ID chip that's my biggest wish for rokinon lenses.

 

[Luds34]

We want to be #3? What kind of goal is that? They should shoot for #1 that way maybe they'll get to #2. I really don't see why they cannot make something just as good as anything Sony makes, after all they have everything but the sensors.

Well, the whole goal of being a top seller doesn't give me a good feeling. High sales usually equates with mass appeal. I'm just reading more evolution of the M line. I'm concerned that this will still not appeal to enthusiasts or pros. While I get the Rebel is the bread'n'butter with the scale it is sold at. Be a market leader and garner name recognition with a top end product. You already have enough low end M cameras to appeal at the standard consumer level.

And I agree, how about some M glass while we're at it?

Either way, basically another year away before we even see this. That too is disappointing.

 

[9VIII]

Will be interesting to see how soon Sony will launch their A6000 successor ... and what it brings to the table.

Fuji ... not interested. FF prices for retro-stuff APS-C cameras and lenses. No thanks. I really like the small, decent and priceworthy Canon EF-M lenses. All I want - after a very long wait - is a *significantly* better EOS M body! ASAP, Canon!

The interesting thing about Fuji is they can actually achieve equivalence with most Full Frame setups if their lenses are sharp enough, and the Fuji 56f1.2 certainly is (not all of the other lenses are amazing but they've done a decent job thus far).
That lens doesn't have much competition in the mirrorless space, the Panasonic 42.5f1.2 Nocticron is nice, but even then it's 13mm shorter and the crop factor of M4/3 practically cuts your light gathering down by two stops. Sony might have a hope of getting the job done with a crop body, but they've already given up and gone with 35mm sensors. Are they going to be devoting resources to top grade APS-C lenses?
I'm sure the Fuji 56f1.2 compares favorably enough with the Canon 85f1.8 to justify the price, and the Canon 85f1.2 sells for more than twice as much as the Fuji (the lack of a Canon 85f1.4 is actually kind of interesting, another reason to be surprised we don't have a Sigma 85mm Art, though maybe the focusing issues already present with Canon are a good indication of why we don't see a rush of lenses in that space).

Fuji is rumored to come out with a 33mm f1.0 lens this year (fingers crossed), and with that, they'll have a modern pair of high end portrait primes at a decent price. If it's as sharp as the 56f1.2 then the 33f1.0 would be about as good as a Sigma 50mm Art on a Full Frame body. Yes, you can get the Canon 50f1.4 for about three times less money than a high end Fuji lens, but again it's probably a trade off of cost and IQ. If Canon upgrades their lens it's not going to be cheap. Canon has a 50f1.2 (Nikon's is Manual Focus), but it should probably be upgraded (otherwise the Sigma 50A wouldn't sell).
There's no competing with something like a 6D for $1,000 and a Nifty Fifty (and that 40mm Pancake is amazing on Full Frame), but then you have to compare the other pro's and con's of each system.
I owned a 5D2 for about a year and that was enough for me, I'm looking for a smaller body and more dials. Speaking for myself in particular, I really love the tactile experience of operating a camera. As someone limited to enthusiast applications these are more toys than tools. Otherwise, quite frankly, my dirt cheap 1100D is everything I will ever need in a camera.

 

[bholliman]

Sounds like Canon is getting serious about mirrorless. Looking forward to what they come up with.

 

[Etienne]

Sounds like Canon is getting serious about mirrorless. Looking forward to what they come up with.

How is this getting serious? They want to be number 3, and the next M is almost a year away.
Sony is serious: the A6300 will be almost impossible for Canon to match, never mind the A7 series.
This interview sounds like Canon is still half-assed about the M

 

[rrcphoto]

We want to be #3? What kind of goal is that? They should shoot for #1 that way maybe they'll get to #2. I really don't see why they cannot make something just as good as anything Sony makes, after all they have everything but the sensors.

no it was a bad translation. it said, we are currently #3 and want to move up to #2 by the end of the year.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

So Canon's rumored "mirrorless surprise" is now postponed to Q3/Q4?
They have bern abd still are clueless. If they had a real mirrorless stragey and correspondingly convincing MILCs, they would not have to fight for 3rd place in 2016 ...
they'd be dominating the market. Why oh why did they leave A6000 and A7 (II) series to Sony? Without any fight? So stupid! Many millions of units and gazillions of yen missed, Canon!

There were 3.2 million Mirrorless and other non reflex cameras such as rangefinders sold in 2015.

Even if they were in first place, I doubt that they might have sold more than a million +/- , so they did not miss many millions of sales. However, its not a insignificant number. Of course, being in 4th place, they probably sold 300,000-500,000.

Its hard to understand why they have not already produced a FF mirrorless, but they have had a series of spectacular flops over the past 50 years trying to eliminate the swinging mirror in DSLR's, so someone in Management who got burned several times is really cautious.

Even recently, Canon had to virtually give away the original M because no one in the USA wanted them.

 

[candc]

I never believed a new M was imminent, but what about some fast primes???

If you don't mind manual focus, I have the two new Rokinon/Samyang primes in hand that I'm reviewing on a M3 body, and they are stunningly good. The 21mm f/1.4 has a 33.6mm angle of view and the 50mm f/1.2 has an 80mm angle of view. They are both beautifully made, easy to focus on the M3 (particularly with the EV-F), are optically competitive with just about everything I'm throwing at them.

Here's my first look video: http://bit.ly/1m87Vdr
Here's an image gallery from the 21mm: http://bit.ly/1PEiSBh
Here's an image gallery from the 50mm: http://bit.ly/1VvpSPb

Plus, they look like this...

I have to say those example shots look awesome. If I had an m I would order those lenses right now.

 

[AvTvM]

I never believed a new M was imminent, but what about some fast primes???

If you don't mind manual focus, I have the two new Rokinon/Samyang primes in hand that I'm reviewing on a M3 body, and they are stunningly good. The 21mm f/1.4 has a 33.6mm angle of view and the 50mm f/1.2 has an 80mm angle of view. They are both beautifully made, easy to focus on the M3 (particularly with the EV-F), are optically competitive with just about everything I'm throwing at them.
Here's my first look video: http://bit.ly/1m87Vdr
Here's an image gallery from the 21mm: http://bit.ly/1PEiSBh
Here's an image gallery from the 50mm: http://bit.ly/1VvpSPb

Thanks, Dustin! Your images look very good. Really nice to see "sample images" from someone who knows photography.

However, I do mind manual focus and manual aperture and manual-everything. Very much so! For me it's gotta be AF and electronic-everything all the way. After all, this is electronic/digital imaging. I'd never buy all-manual Samyangs at more than 400 Euros a piece. Yikes.

For me and my M the EF-M 22/2.0 is absolutely perfect. As far as 50mm goes, currently I use the neato EF 50/1.8 STM via EF-M adapter. Still small and light enough. Wide open, DOF is also fine with me. Got both lenses for € 120 a piece.

Difference between your images and mine is not caused by lenses used or one more f-stop, but solely by photogs ... :'(

 

[rrcphoto]

Its hard to understand why they have not already produced a FF mirrorless, but they have had a series of spectacular flops over the past 50 years trying to eliminate the swinging mirror in DSLR's, so someone in Management who got burned several times is really cautious.

is it cautious or just business sense?
where's Sony's A mount right now?
canon has what .. 5.8 million SLR's shipped. to focus (literally) on mirrorless seriously would cut back in other areas. how much and would there still be a net gain?

 

[AvTvM]

Its hard to understand why they have not already produced a FF mirrorless, but they have had a series of spectacular flops over the past 50 years trying to eliminate the swinging mirror in DSLR's, so someone in Management who got burned several times is really cautious.

is it cautious or just business sense?
where's Sony's A mount right now?
canon has what .. 5.8 million SLR's shipped. to focus (literally) on mirrorless seriously would cut back in other areas. how much and would there still be a net gain?

absolutely massive net gain. would Canon ship 5.8 million MILCs instead of mirrorslappers, they'd make a lot more money. MILCs have a huge cost advantage in production ... fully automated robot factories, nothing mechanical to mount, shim, adjust, 10x quality checks, ... as well as in after sales service / warranty repairs. Plus people would be buying a lot more new lenses, as they would gradually migrate from EF [via mirrorless adapter] to new, native short flange-back "EF-X" lenses.

 

[nhz]

Its hard to understand why they have not already produced a FF mirrorless, but they have had a series of spectacular flops over the past 50 years trying to eliminate the swinging mirror in DSLR's, so someone in Management who got burned several times is really cautious.

is it cautious or just business sense?
where's Sony's A mount right now?
canon has what .. 5.8 million SLR's shipped. to focus (literally) on mirrorless seriously would cut back in other areas. how much and would there still be a net gain?

absolutely massive net gain. would Canon ship 5.8 million MILCs instead of mirrorslappers, they'd make a lot more money. MILCs have a huge cost advantage in production ... fully automated robot factories, nothing mechanical to mount, shim, adjust, 10x quality checks, ... as well as in after sales service / warranty repairs. Plus people would be buying a lot more new lenses, as they would gradually migrate from EF [via mirrorless adapter] to new, native short flange-back "EF-X" lenses.

So ... Canon doesn't want to make money? ;-)

I think it is more likely that they closely follow what their users say. Apparently most users in US and EU still want big honking look-at-me cameras (DSLR), while only Asia prefers small cameras (= mirrorless). And maybe most of the Asian users don't need a high end mirrorless camera from Canon and just want something that is small and very easy to use?

Ultimately mirrorless should be cheaper (when production volume is similar) but probably the technology isn't quite ready yet. A high quality EVF has a cost, needs bigger battery, needs EF adapter or has limited lens choice. Despite all the 'mechanical' adjustments etc. it is clear that Canon can produce an entry model DSLR (1000D etc.) for very little money, they are almost giving them away if you subtract the value of the kit lens (which of course costs almost nothing as well ...). And maybe they don't do much mechanical adjustment on the lower end DSLRs and leave that problem for the customer ;-(

 

[crashpc]

It´s not "want big, honking piece of metal" for everybody. It´s the fact that on M, almost everything except lens quality and touch screen is inferior. The sensor, focusing system, FPS, buffer, every key feature at the time is inferior. And then they wonder how come they don´t sell more. DOH.

 

[Etienne]

It´s not "want big, honking piece of metal" for everybody. It´s the fact that on M, almost everything except lens quality and touch screen is inferior. The sensor, focusing system, FPS, buffer, every key feature at the time is inferior. And then they wonder how come they don´t sell more. DOH.

Canon should just reverse engineer the new Sony A6300

 

[Loswr]

Canon should just reverse engineer the new Sony A6300

Sony should just reverse engineer Canon's market domination.

 

[brad-man]

I never believed a new M was imminent, but what about some fast primes???

If you don't mind manual focus, I have the two new Rokinon/Samyang primes in hand that I'm reviewing on a M3 body, and they are stunningly good. The 21mm f/1.4 has a 33.6mm angle of view and the 50mm f/1.2 has an 80mm angle of view. They are both beautifully made, easy to focus on the M3 (particularly with the EV-F), are optically competitive with just about everything I'm throwing at them.

Here's my first look video: http://bit.ly/1m87Vdr
Here's an image gallery from the 21mm: http://bit.ly/1PEiSBh
Here's an image gallery from the 50mm: http://bit.ly/1VvpSPb

Plus, they look like this...

Thanks for the samples Dustin. They do look excellent. I'm afraid that I do require AF for M lenses for more versatility. I suspect Canon is going to make me wait another year or so for the lenses I want. Despite all the recent rumors, I don't believe Canon is serious about mirrorless for pros/enthusiasts yet.