Canon Executive Talks EOS M in 2016

[rrcphoto]

Right now, no smell of a new EOS-M "Pro" ... It only reeks of more ho-hum iterations of crippled low end EOS-M stuff. Meanwhile Sony A6300 and Fuji (i expect XT-2 some time soon and then an XE-3) will be happily getting buyers' money. Canon's bad, not mine!

Yep, Canon is counting their yen as Sony loses MILC share to Olympus and Fuji struggles to lift their market share off the X-axis.

snickers.

it's interesting that sony never once breaks down their P&S and ILC number anywhere anymore, nor mentions marketshare. I suspect they've fallen under 10% marketshare.

the thing is, that means the FE mount marketshare is forth and falling. a problem domain that sony's squealing fanboys haven't wrapped their head around.

EF,F,m43's are probably the dominant mounts right now.

 

[tcmatthews]

Right now, no smell of a new EOS-M "Pro" ... It only reeks of more ho-hum iterations of crippled low end EOS-M stuff. Meanwhile Sony A6300 and Fuji (i expect XT-2 some time soon and then an XE-3) will be happily getting buyers' money. Canon's bad, not mine!

I'm very seriously considering jumping on the A6300 for video capability in various settings and the ability to continue to mostly utilize my existing lenses via adapter. Looks like fun.

Throw in a metabones IV adapter and a m42 adapter for your vintage glass and you will be happy. After you get past the menus at least.

 

[tcmatthews]

Right now, no smell of a new EOS-M "Pro" ... It only reeks of more ho-hum iterations of crippled low end EOS-M stuff. Meanwhile Sony A6300 and Fuji (i expect XT-2 some time soon and then an XE-3) will be happily getting buyers' money. Canon's bad, not mine!

Yep, Canon is counting their yen as Sony loses MILC share to Olympus and Fuji struggles to lift their market share off the X-axis.

snickers.

it's interesting that sony never once breaks down their P&S and ILC number anywhere anymore, nor mentions marketshare. I suspect they've fallen under 10% marketshare.

the thing is, that means the FE mount marketshare is forth and falling. a problem domain that sony's squealing fanboys haven't wrapped their head around.

EF,F,m43's are probably the dominant mounts right now.

They announced that total mirrorless market share fell 5% and profit margins were up 20% in 2015. That said EF, F and m43 are the dominant mounts right now. I think Sony wanted to focus on profit margin instead of chasing market share. That profit was brought about by the FE cameras A7rII and A7sII and their high price lost them market share.

 

[rrcphoto]

Right now, no smell of a new EOS-M "Pro" ... It only reeks of more ho-hum iterations of crippled low end EOS-M stuff. Meanwhile Sony A6300 and Fuji (i expect XT-2 some time soon and then an XE-3) will be happily getting buyers' money. Canon's bad, not mine!

Yep, Canon is counting their yen as Sony loses MILC share to Olympus and Fuji struggles to lift their market share off the X-axis.

snickers.

it's interesting that sony never once breaks down their P&S and ILC number anywhere anymore, nor mentions marketshare. I suspect they've fallen under 10% marketshare.

the thing is, that means the FE mount marketshare is forth and falling. a problem domain that sony's squealing fanboys haven't wrapped their head around.

EF,F,m43's are probably the dominant mounts right now.

They announced that total mirrorless market share fell 5% and profit margins were up 20% in 2015. That said EF, F and m43 are the dominant mounts right now. I think Sony wanted to focus on profit margin instead of chasing market share. That profit was brought about by the FE cameras A7rII and A7sII and their high price lost them market share.

okay.. so that means they fell aproximately 1.5% in overall ILC marketshare.

which means they are sitting somewhere around 8.5% .. from around a high of 15% when they had SLR's.

 

[Proscribo]

I'm hesitantly considering switching myself as the 80D is a HUGE indicator of the sensor in the Pro-M, which is DPAF, which is only a hair better than the existing M3's Hybrid CMOS AF III.

We currently know nothing about the 80D/1DXII DPAF, it could blow the hell out of A6300 AF or be just the same as current DPAF.

 

[Quackator]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.

That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

 

[AvTvM]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.
That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

I don't care about wrong market share rumors. I only care about *really right products*.

As far as Europe is concerned, Sony is selling lots of A7R IIs and A6000s and soon A6300s in the german-speaking world, where some of the more demanding photo enthusiasts are at home.

 

[nhz]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.

That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

what I remember from reading several articles, Sony's market share plummeted in numbers because they are concentrating on high end cameras (with much higher profit per unit).

 

[rrcphoto]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.
That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

I don't care about wrong market share rumors. I only care about *really right products*.

As far as Europe is concerned, Sony is selling lots of A7R IIs and A6000s and soon A6300s in the german-speaking world, where some of the more demanding photo enthusiasts are at home.

and yet, you then pull stats out of your posterior with respects to europe?

 

[Quackator]

As far as Europe is concerned, Sony is selling lots of A7R IIs
and A6000s and soon A6300s in the german-speaking world, (...)

Since that is exactly where I live, I'd be highly interested to learn
what the source of your reliable numbers about this market is?

Are there any reliable numbers, or is it just a feeling from reading
German forum websites?

 

[AvTvM]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.
That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

I don't care about wrong market share rumors. I only care about *really right products*.

As far as Europe is concerned, Sony is selling lots of A7R IIs and A6000s and soon A6300s in the german-speaking world, where some of the more demanding photo enthusiasts are at home.

and yet, you then pull stats out of your posterior with respects to europe?

No stats. Just personal observations. Not with my rear, but with my own eyes. 8)

 

[rrcphoto]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.
That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

I don't care about wrong market share rumors. I only care about *really right products*.

As far as Europe is concerned, Sony is selling lots of A7R IIs and A6000s and soon A6300s in the german-speaking world, where some of the more demanding photo enthusiasts are at home.

and yet, you then pull stats out of your posterior with respects to europe?

No stats. Just personal observations. Not with my rear, but with my own eyes. 8)

I see so you refute stats that are taken using 50% of all sales receipts as being inaccurate, but your "stats" with your huge bias .. and very narrow % of the overall sales - you claim are accurate.

you know - that says everything right there that anyone needs to know about you.

 

[Loswr]

what I remember from reading several articles, Sony's market share plummeted in numbers because they are concentrating on high end cameras (with much higher profit per unit).

Unit sales fell 30%. Operating income is up, though that's partly due to reduced costs and inventory.

 

[Loswr]

According to the BCN rankings, Sony's market share overall
plummeted to 7,5% from 15 something % before.
That's for the Japanese market, and the European and US market
are traditionally weaker in mirrorless.

I don't care about wrong market share rumors. I only care about *really right products*.

As far as Europe is concerned, Sony is selling lots of A7R IIs and A6000s and soon A6300s in the german-speaking world, where some of the more demanding photo enthusiasts are at home.

and yet, you then pull stats out of your posterior with respects to europe?

No stats. Just personal observations. Not with my rear, but with my own eyes. 8)

That would almost be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. Been taking lessons from dilbert? :

 

[rrcphoto]

what I remember from reading several articles, Sony's market share plummeted in numbers because they are concentrating on high end cameras (with much higher profit per unit).

Unit sales fell 30%. Operating income is up, though that's partly due to reduced costs and inventory.

not to mention IP&S also includes a very profitable video dept.

 

[Loswr]

what I remember from reading several articles, Sony's market share plummeted in numbers because they are concentrating on high end cameras (with much higher profit per unit).

Unit sales fell 30%. Operating income is up, though that's partly due to reduced costs and inventory.

not to mention IP&S also includes a very profitable video dept.

Except that they revised sales estimates downward by 10B¥ due to lower than expected sales in that segment.

 

[AvTvM]

hehehe, Canon Defense League in full swing again. ;D

But more on topic ... rather than your "stats" I'd like to finally see a fully competitive EOS M body. Target in terms of sensor, AF and performance is Sony A6300. Touchscreen counting as the one area where Canon has a lead. Of course also priced competitively ... not higher than A6300.

This Canon mirrorless EOS "M4 Pro" would certainly sell "in large numbers". In Japan, in Europe and in the US of A.

 

[Loswr]

But more on topic ... rather than your "stats" I'd like to finally see a fully competitive EOS M body. Target in terms of sensor, AF and performance is Sony A6300. Touchscreen counting as the one area where Canon has a lead. Of course also priced competitively ... not higher than A6300.

This Canon mirrorless EOS "M4 Pro" would certainly sell "in large numbers". In Japan, in Europe and in the US of A.

Certainly? Pulling more 'facts' from your nether orifice, I see.

On the other hand, you are likely right...but for the wrong reasons. A Canon mirrorless "M Pro" will probably sell in large numbers globally when it's released...because Canon won't release such a camera until it is likely to sell in large numbers globally. That won't happen until MILC's mostly supplant dSLRs, and the sales figures at which you scoff suggest that's not going to happen any time soon.

For most people, I'd recommend not holding their breath waiting for that EOS M Pro...I'll make an exception in your case. Breathe deep and start counting, my friend..... ;D

 

[msm]

what I remember from reading several articles, Sony's market share plummeted in numbers because they are concentrating on high end cameras (with much higher profit per unit).

Unit sales fell 30%. Operating income is up, though that's partly due to reduced costs and inventory.

Really?

Sales decreased 5.0% year-on-year (a 5% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 191.9 billion yen (1,599 million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to decreases in unit sales of video cameras and digital cameras* reflecting a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value - added models.

Operating income increased 4.0 billion yen year-on-year to 23.7 billion yen (197 million U.S. dollars). This increase was mainly due to the improvement in the product mix of digital cameras and cost reductions, partially offset by the impact of the above-mentioned decrease in sales. During the current quarter, there was a 2.3billion yen negative impact from foreign exchange rate fluctuations.

Also note that Canon's camera sales are falling way faster on their latest quarterly report (-13.4%), despite Canon going for the mass market which Sony does not actively pursue according to their offical strategy.

It is also interesting that Sony imaging business area has a revenue of 191.9 billion yen. Canon's imaging includes ink jet printers, once you subtract that their last quarterly revenue is just a bit over 200billion according to their latest report. Sony is hardly the disaster you want to make it out to be with silly CIPA numbers which basically only reflect who sells the most low end cameras.

 

[Loswr]

what I remember from reading several articles, Sony's market share plummeted in numbers because they are concentrating on high end cameras (with much higher profit per unit).

Unit sales fell 30%. Operating income is up, though that's partly due to reduced costs and inventory.

Really?

Sales decreased 5.0% year-on-year (a 5% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 191.9 billion yen (1,599 million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to decreases in unit sales of video cameras and digital cameras* reflecting a contraction of the market, partially offset by an improvement in the product mix of digital cameras reflecting a shift to high value - added models.

Operating income increased 4.0 billion yen year-on-year to 23.7 billion yen (197 million U.S. dollars). This increase was mainly due to the improvement in the product mix of digital cameras and cost reductions, partially offset by the impact of the above-mentioned decrease in sales. During the current quarter, there was a 2.3billion yen negative impact from foreign exchange rate fluctuations.

See screenshot below from the Q315 earnings presentation. Do you not understand the meaning of unit sales? Or was the math hard? 2.6 – 1.8 = 0.8, 0.8 ÷ 2.6 = 0.3077 x 100 = 30.8% reduction. Note that your pasted text also mentions the cost reductions as a main reason, which supports my statement that the increased operating income is, "...partly due to reduced costs."

So, yes...really.