Canon flash

[tpatana]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

The imaginary and condescending tale from Mr. Neuroanatomist about his "friend" with poor hammering skills doesn't offend me. My skin is thick and some online mocking is to be expected. I've been a working pro for a long time but always welcome friendly advice and suggestions from anyone willing to share. I have more questions than answers and
admire those with great success and few challenges. Rudy Winston, Canon's top camera tech, has been a source of helpful guidance and support and happily shares customer suggestions to Canon research and development in Japan.

This I don't believe for a second...

Well, he didn't say on what profession, so don't be so hasty passing judgement. He might be expert pro in making archery bow strings for all we know.

 

[digitalride]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

If you learn how to use it, there is a solution. The laws of physics say that objects further away will get less light, why to you blame the flash for this, its just a light bulb and cannot give each item in a room a custom amount of light.

Was that supposed to be sarcastic? No one expects "just a light bulb" from an e-ttl flash. I don't expect a custom amount of light for each item, just consistent exposure that doesn't vary with distance to subject.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

I don't expect a custom amount of light for each item, just consistent exposure that doesn't vary with distance to subject.

Apologies if this was addressed earlier, but have you done static testing to confirm this? My 580 flash worked just as I expected, even bouncing. It's been a while since I dug into this topic since I don't use flash much anymore, but if I recall correctly, proper exposure methods partially depend on the body you're using. Some bodies will meter correctly only through the center AF point.

I suggest you construct a static test and post your methods and results. You may have some insights, and maybe get some good suggestions.

Keep in mind that a lot of people use Canon flashes successfully, so there could be something small you've overlooked in your technique.

 

[Pookie]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

The imaginary and condescending tale from Mr. Neuroanatomist about his "friend" with poor hammering skills doesn't offend me. My skin is thick and some online mocking is to be expected. I've been a working pro for a long time but always welcome friendly advice and suggestions from anyone willing to share. I have more questions than answers and
admire those with great success and few challenges. Rudy Winston, Canon's top camera tech, has been a source of helpful guidance and support and happily shares customer suggestions to Canon research and development in Japan.

This I don't believe for a second...

Well, he didn't say on what profession, so don't be so hasty passing judgement. He might be expert pro in making archery bow strings for all we know.

Oh but wait... he is a "professional photographer". He said so on the internet. Here is a personal email to me outlining all the work he's done. Yet, still can't figure out a speedlite and why letting it drive creates a problem...

Below is a partial list of my clients:

Shell Global
The New York Times
Time LIFE
The NBA
The Sierra Club
Popular Photographer Magazine
AMWAY
Scholastic Magazine
AP Images New York

I've covered the Pope, NBA Finals, Muhammed Ali, Mike Tyson, Floyd Mayweather. I've been given clearance from the Pentagon and training so I could fly with fighter pilots. I photographed a secret mercenary training camp for Time LIFE. I've cover Fashion Week in New York City more than six times. I've worked in the Capital in Washing DC. I've covered six U.S. Presidents, and was selected by the family of the Late President Ford to be the only photographer to cover his final funeral. I also covered his funeral events in Wash DC. I've photographed heart transplants and organ harvests for a major story, and shot for Popular Photography Magazine. Recently I've been out of the country for Shell Global. I've photographed stories on corruption in Central America.

The best is the secret mercenary training camp...

Well, I covered the Seal Team Six when they took down Osama but my speedlite in TTL wouldn't cooperate so I used the muzzle flash from my dual 1911's to light the shots. The trick is timing the shots and then picking up the camera to catch the action :

 

[Click]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Well, I covered the Seal Team Six when they took down Osama but my speedlite in TTL wouldn't cooperate so I used the muzzle flash from my dual 1911's to light the shots. The trick is timing the shots and then picking up the camera to catch the action :

LOL ;D

 

[Pookie]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Well, I covered the Seal Team Six when they took down Osama but my speedlite in TTL wouldn't cooperate so I used the muzzle flash from my dual 1911's to light the shots. The trick is timing the shots and then picking up the camera to catch the action :

LOL ;D

Whaaa... don't believe me Click ;D here's a selfie I took with Cairo on our last jump, in TTL.

 

[Click]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Ha Ha Ha ;D Pookie, you're the best.

 

[digitalride]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Apologies if this was addressed earlier, but have you done static testing to confirm this?
...
Keep in mind that a lot of people use Canon flashes successfully
...

I did do controlled testing several years ago, I thought I posted them on dpreview but I can't find it now, the conclusion I got from the responses was "yeah, e-ttl isn't very good with bouncing" . If I do more indoor photography in the future I'll revisit it.

Yes, a lot of people use them successfully, but a lot of people have to adjust the flash power in many situations, and a lot of people just live with the inconsistency. Yes, a lot of people complaining about flash are probably doing something wrong, but there is a lot of room for improvement to make it easier for newbies. For example, why isn't there a flash spot metering mode ( without using FEL ) ? That would probably eliminate 75% of all complaints that the flash didn't illuminate the subject properly.

Have you heard of the "inverse square law"? No amount of sophistication in the metering can address that.

I am really confused by these kind of responses. Sophistication in the metering can tell the flash to use more power as necessary, isn't that the whole point of e-ttl? As long as the flash has enough power it is technically possible to get a proper exposure - there are certainly no laws of physics preventing it. I really think the underlying algorithms are decades old and they could do better, but its not a high priority since pros have learned how to adapt.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Well, I covered the Seal Team Six when they took down Osama but my speedlite in TTL wouldn't cooperate so I used the muzzle flash from my dual 1911's to light the shots. The trick is timing the shots and then picking up the camera to catch the action :

LOL ;D

Whaaa... don't believe me Click ;D here's a selfie I took with Cairo on our last jump, in TTL.

Here's a selfie I took with Lucky on my last jump.....

 

[Click]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

;D ;D ;D

 

[d]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Here's a selfie I took with Lucky on my last jump.....

I call FAKE...the cat's face should be more shadowed...

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Here's a selfie I took with Lucky on my last jump.....

I call FAKE...the cat's face should be more shadowed...

That's what fill flash is for

 

[d]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

That's what fill flash is for

Good point, but still, I'm a little suspicious about this one.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Apologies if this was addressed earlier, but have you done static testing to confirm this?
...
Keep in mind that a lot of people use Canon flashes successfully
...

I did do controlled testing several years ago, I thought I posted them on dpreview but I can't find it now, the conclusion I got from the responses was "yeah, e-ttl isn't very good with bouncing" . If I do more indoor photography in the future I'll revisit it.

For example, why isn't there a flash spot metering mode ( without using FEL ) ?

This is several years old, but may help you. I think you may have missed a fundamental element of flash metering -- the pre-flash.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-flash_metering

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

 

[digitalride]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

I think you may have missed a fundamental element of flash metering -- the pre-flash.

I'm fully aware of the pre-flash. If there was no pre-flash I could understand why it doesn't work better. My understanding is that FEL is just a pre-flash that you can take at an earlier time and hold that flash setting for subsequent shots. However it seems on most canon bodies FEL does what you might call "flash spot metering" while without FEL you only get evaluative or average metering.

A few years ago I read everything I could on the subject, but where is the official current Canon document describing how the flash system is supposed to work? The manuals hardly saw anything at all and there hasn't been much published since e-ttl ii was introduced over a decade ago. My understanding is that they won't explain it all for fear of someone figuring out their (flawed) trade secrets.

 

[Orangutan]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

I think you may have missed a fundamental element of flash metering -- the pre-flash.

However it seems on most canon bodies FEL does what you might call "flash spot metering" while without FEL you only get evaluative or average metering.

I think this is not quite right. Please read the second link I sent you.

but where is the official current Canon document describing how the flash system is supposed to work?

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/events_calendar/event_details/cll_events/oc/20160126_oc_ettl.shtml
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/events_calendar/event_details/cll_events/20140811_sanfran_ettlflash_cllsf.shtml
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2015/20150317_stoner_speedlite_blog.shtml
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/blogs/2014/20141028_divitale_ettl_blog.shtml
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/speedlite_tip_pt1_article.shtml

 

[Ozarker]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Well, I covered the Seal Team Six when they took down Osama but my speedlite in TTL wouldn't cooperate so I used the muzzle flash from my dual 1911's to light the shots. The trick is timing the shots and then picking up the camera to catch the action :

LOL ;D

Whaaa... don't believe me Click ;D here's a selfie I took with Cairo on our last jump, in TTL.

I just don't see how you controlled the drone, set the exposure and comforted Cairo at the same time. Truly a master.

Pookie doesn't need a rip cord either. He's a professional ripper himself.

 

[digitalride]

Re: Canon TTL flash

Thanks for the links orangutan. After searching through them I couldn't find anything that addresses the problems I've seen, but I'll try to read through them completely as I have time.

If anyone can point me directly to where Canon explains how to do spot flash metering with consistent exposure on the subject regardless of distance while bouncing I'd appreciate it.

 

[hne]

Re: Canon TTL flash

Thanks for the links orangutan. After searching through them I couldn't find anything that addresses the problems I've seen, but I'll try to read through them completely as I have time.

If anyone can point me directly to where Canon explains how to do spot flash metering with consistent exposure on the subject regardless of distance while bouncing I'd appreciate it.

In short: ambient reading plus a preflash measured in 17 zones (obvious outliers discarded) are the base of the ETTL II bounce flash exposure. For direct on-camera flash, the flash guide number and distance information from the lens can be used to get a reasonable starting point. Flash Exposure Lock will do spot metering, non-AF-point linked.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/E-TTL_II.do

 

[Pookie]

Re: Canon TTL flash what could be worse ?

Well, I covered the Seal Team Six when they took down Osama but my speedlite in TTL wouldn't cooperate so I used the muzzle flash from my dual 1911's to light the shots. The trick is timing the shots and then picking up the camera to catch the action :

LOL ;D

Whaaa... don't believe me Click ;D here's a selfie I took with Cairo on our last jump, in TTL.

Here's a selfie I took with Lucky on my last jump.....

Don, you're makin Cairo very jealous... he was turned down for the astronut program