Canon hurry up! Nikon's face-detection & Sony's Exmor sensors are killing us!

[PhotoCat]

Greetings to all! First of all, I am a Canon user and I really want Canon to do well.

Have been reading up on D800 and 5D3's user manuals...
Gosh, Nikon's new face-detect technology inside the viewfinder is awesome!
Not only does the face detection works with
high-speed phase focusing but it also works with exposure calculation based on the face alone!
In addition, it works with i-TTL too!! This is a paradigm changer for wedding photographers!

Implication is that when capturing any backlit portraits, there is no need for exposure compensation
if u turn on "face priority" in D800 or D4! This also helps bounced flash portrait photography immensely.
There is no need to "guess" the flash expo compensation and chimp anymore!! U get excellent focus
and decent exposure in the 1st shot!

Canon, do u realize this Nikon feature is going to kill us all Canon portrait photographers!
Please, Canon, I want this in the next Canon DSLR!

As if this is not threatening enough from Nikon, Sony's new Exmor backlit sensor used in D800 is
another game changer. It is not just another "better" tweaked CMOS sensor from a different manufacturer. It is
not a "tweak" of CMOS technology, it is another revolutionary technology by itself. It is like Nikon is using a gun to fight with Canon's sword. The ISO advantage of Exmor's backlit technology cannot be under-estimated.

Canon, please, hurry up! Perhaps licensing Sony's sensor technology is a fast stop-gap solution!

 

[Astro]

Canon, do u realize this Nikon feature is going to kill us all Canon portrait photographers
.....
Canon, please, hurry up! Perhaps licensing Sony's sensor technology is a fast stop-gap solution!

if you want canon to hear you.. well i would write to canon and not on a internet forum. :

The ISO advantage of Exmor's backlit technology cannot be under-estimated.

well EXMOR is not EXMOR R.

the sensor in the D800 is not backlit.

EXMOR:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/cmos_01.html


EXMOR R:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/exmor_r_01.html

 

[Daniel Flather]

U get excellent focus
and decent exposure in the 1st shot!

Epic.

*edited for formatting sarcasm.

 

[Bosman]

Greetings to all! First of all, I am a Canon user and I really want Canon to do well.

Have been reading up on D800 and 5D3's user manuals...
Gosh, Nikon's new face-detect technology inside the viewfinder is awesome!
Not only does the face detection works with
high-speed phase focusing but it also works with exposure calculation based on the face alone!
In addition, it works with i-TTL too!! This is a paradigm changer for wedding photographers!

Implication is that when capturing any backlit portraits, there is no need for exposure compensation
if u turn on "face priority" in D800 or D4! This also helps bounced flash portrait photography immensely.
There is no need to "guess" the flash expo compensation and chimp anymore!! U get excellent focus
and decent exposure in the 1st shot!

Canon, do u realize this Nikon feature is going to kill us all Canon portrait photographers!
Please, Canon, I want this in the next Canon DSLR!

As if this is not threatening enough from Nikon, Sony's new Exmor backlit sensor used in D800 is
another game changer. It is not just another "better" tweaked CMOS sensor from a different manufacturer. It is
not a "tweak" of CMOS technology, it is another revolution technology by itself. It is like Nikon is using a gun to fight with Canon's sword. The ISO advantage of Exmor's backlit technology cannot be under-estimated.

Canon, please, hurry up! Perhaps licensing Sony's sensor technology is a fast stop-gap solution!

So dramatic. Unlike you i don't feel like i am being killed. I always use single point focus and i know to under expose or over expose based on light, its not that hard. Tech is good of course, thats why i love my 5dm3.

 

[PhotoCat]

well EXMOR is not EXMOR R.

the sensor in the D800 is not backlit.

EXMOR:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/cmos_01.html


EXMOR R:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/technology/theme/exmor_r_01.html

I can't believe D800's sensor is not backlit, seeing its high ISO score on DXOmark...
When 36MEG is scaled down to 8x12, or 8MEG, its noise performance is vy close to D3S.

Well, Canon has to double hurry up, if Sony can achieve this kind of ISO without backlit technology.
Astro, do u have a reference quoting D800 is not using a backlit sensor? Tks!

 

[Astro]

Well, Canon has to double hurry up, if Sony can achieve this kind of ISO without backlit technology.
Astro, do u have a reference quoting D800 is not using a backlit sensor? Tks!

it´s EXMOR technology not EXMOR R.
im to bored to search the link.. nikon is not very open about what sony sensor tech they are using. but trust me it´s not backlit.

anyway backlit technology will not yield much better performance on a FF sensor.
the wiring in a FF sensors does not occupie as much space (percentage of the sensor area) as in a P&S camera.
that´s why sony is only using the Exmor R technology in small sensor cameras (beside that a backlit sensor is expensive, especially if it would be FF).

i think sony will have improved the quantum efficiency and that is why the D800 has a good iso performance.

 

[wockawocka]

However did I manage the last 50 weddings shooting in manual mode?

 

[PhotoCat]

So dramatic. Unlike you i don't feel like i am being killed. I always use single point focus and i know to under expose or over expose based on light, its not that hard. Tech is good of course, thats why i love my 5dm3.

No, it is not that hard and I do that all the time. 1st shot (/w bounced flash) with an estimated expo comp based on experience, look at the histogram and chimp it, adjust the expo comp if necessary, and than reshoot... Well, sometimes the chance is missed and u cannot shoot again during a wedding... Well, I am sure one would say we could Lightroom the exposure back but I prefer to get the correct exposure to minimize the amount of post-work. There is an additional benefit too. I can just use the jpgs directly out of the camera/DPP, which has better color than Lightroom or ACR after raw processing, IMHO.

 

[PhotoCat]

Well, Canon has to double hurry up, if Sony can achieve this kind of ISO without backlit technology.
Astro, do u have a reference quoting D800 is not using a backlit sensor? Tks!

it´s EXMOR technology not EXMOR R.
im to bored to search the link.. nikon is not very open about what sony sensor tech they are using. but trust me it´s not backlit.

anyway backlit technology will not yield much better performance on a FF sensor.
the wiring in a FF sensors does not occupie as much space (percentage of the sensor area) as in a P&S camera.
that´s why sony is only using the Exmor R technology in small sensor cameras (beside that a backlit sensor is expensive, especially if it would be FF).

i think sony will have improved the quantum efficiency and that is why the D800 has a good iso performance.

Thanks Astro, this is good info that I was not aware of.

 

[PhotoCat]

However did I manage the last 50 weddings shooting in manual mode?

I shoot weddings/events in manual mode /w centre focus too. (to be honest, indoor shooting is kind of auto too when I
use bounced flash indoor, since the flash output is in auto e-ttl mode, with some exceptions I was on full manual
at 1/1 flash power)

During outdoor shootings, face-detection is probably not that important as I can use the spot meter.
However, when using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, exposure calculation based only on the face would definitely
be a killer feature for me.

 

[itsnotmeyouknow]

Then use spot focus and learn your trade better. If you have to rely on technology to get the shot I'd never hire you

 

[Z]

Yep, face detection would be a cool option to have in the 5D III. Unfortunately you'll have to wait for the 1D X if this feature is a 'must have' for you.

Until then... keep calm and carry on.

 

[PhotoCat]

Then use spot focus and learn your trade better. If you have to rely on technology to get the shot I'd never hire you

With all due respect, pls re-read the thread more carefully.

 

[itsnotmeyouknow]

With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

 

[Z]

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

Scary thought, isn't it? I can only imagine professional photographers saying the same thing during the advent of digital photography - and it's true, photography (particularly events) is much easier today than it was 15 years ago. Unfortunately you just have to 'get with the times', to put it bluntly - and hope that an improvement in technology such as face detection just serves to drive demand for better results.

 

[PhotoCat]

With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

No, I don't have to rely on face-det today but to arrive at the correct exposure when using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, some kind of iterative procedure is needed. U test shoot and then adjust and then re-shoot.

Perhaps there is something I am missing. Please enlighten me with a proper technique how I can get a
decent exposure of a bride using e-ttl bounced flash indoor, without needing to do a test shot.

 

[Tcapp]

With equally due respect if you have to rely on face detection in order to shoot portraits accurately then you need to brush up your skills.

I would say that Having face recognition willbe more threat to portrait photographers than anything else. Easy to set up a cheap business or for the likes of Costco etc to pay someone peanuts to just press a button.

I'm inclined to agree... but I don't think that we should fear any technology. (Unless they teach robots art, then we are screwed.)

 

[itsnotmeyouknow]

Technology won't replace art (at least I hope not). I don't fear technology. But. If you make something easy to do then anyone can do it. Most church weddings in uk don't allow flash and in my view flash is too intrusive in what should be intimate moments. If you MUST have flash then reshoot before reception.

The biggest investment you can give is experience. Make something easy to achieve for a $5k down payment and you are left with a Walmart product. Yes it's functional but do you want your wedding photography to be functional?

I think the OP has overstated his/her case. Lack of face recognition isn't killing photographers. Needing LESS skill will be the thing that kills photography especially in regard to wedding photography. Quick Facebook profile buy camer few lenses and you're off. Lots of underpriced gigs by people doing it in their spare time and not paying their taxes while everyone doing it properly struggles.

Hang on, that's happening already on present technology.

Be very careful what you wish for. It may very well come true and not be everything you dreamed of

 

[Tcapp]

Technology won't replace art (at least I hope not). I don't fear technology. But. If you make something easy to do then anyone can do it. Most church weddings in uk don't allow flash and in my view flash is too intrusive in what should be intimate moments. If you MUST have flash then reshoot before reception.

The biggest investment you can give is experience. Make something easy to achieve for a $5k down payment and you are left with a Walmart product. Yes it's functional but do you want your wedding photography to be functional?

I think the OP has overstated his/her case. Lack of face recognition isn't killing photographers. Needing LESS skill will be the thing that kills photography especially in regard to wedding photography. Quick Facebook profile buy camer few lenses and you're off. Lots of underpriced gigs by people doing it in their spare time and not paying their taxes while everyone doing it properly struggles.

Hang on, that's happening already on present technology.

Be very careful what you wish for. It may very well come true and not be everything you dreamed of

valid point. We pros will lose some business to the weekend warriors, but always remember, no matter what happens:

The cream always rises to the top.

 

[PhotoCat]

In all honesty, I really don't want anyone to invent any digital camera, face detection nor auto-focus, so that our value as a professional photographer is easily seen. Unfortunately that is not the case. Nikon has done it now and we Canon shooters need the playing field leveled. Imagine u r shooting the processional at f2.0-2.8 with bounced flash and hoping that AI-Servo is giving u a few sharp images, while at the same time uncle Bob is just behind u with his D800 with face priority on... Sure, my lighting will be better than his but if Nikon's face detect technology really delivers, he might nail the focus better than I can with AI-Servo. sigh... Here, it is clearly a technology competition. we can't turn the clock back... if we can't beat them, we might as well join them... sigh... Eventually as tech advances, it might not be about the camera anymore, it could all be about art, lighting, posing, composition... and post work perhaps...