Canon is just stupid - 5D3s AutoISO still crappy - EMAIL THEM HOW IT SHOULD WORK

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

Just read the manual of the 5D III, 1/250 as fastest time for auto iso is bloody stupid. Still usless for sport and action. Might be of use for weddings but that its. Why are they doing this to us?

I just posted the same in the main forum.

We already knew no EC in M AutoISO mode. Dumb.

But we figured the new shutter limit would more or less rescue it since we can use it in Av mode then but then WTH???

They make the max minimum shutter speeds limited to the very speeds where AutoISO isn't even used. I mean 1 second exposures? If you have time for those you have time to do everything manually.

What does 1/250th do for sports of action wildlife?

It's the most absurd limit I've ever come across (well second to the 5D2 and older bodies' locking AutoISO M into the range 400 to 400!?!).

AutoISO is soooo trivial, how the heck can it not work after 15 years!?! I mean we went from Earth bound to man on the moon in less time! Sad but true.

This is the sort of thing that truly makes me believe that nobody in Canon marketing or engineering actually uses cameras. Nikon gives you a feeling that some people there may have actually used a camera before. FOr a few years the historgram top end was dark gray edging to black so you couldn't even see where it ended. How does that get out of the factory if anyone there uses cameras? Thankfully they did finally listen to us and finally fixed that! But it is so bizarre they make such basic mistakes and are so slow to fix them. At least they show they eventually will, which is one step up.

Absurd.

Unbelievable.

And you just know they only firmware update that might fix it would be the next 5D4 for $4000.

Ridiculous.

And just as I was about to post all over praising them for finally fixing the histogram I read this horror.

I suggest you learn from more learned photographers such as Neuro rather than having a rant over something you clearly know little about

really

explain what i know little about?

explain why a 1/250th limit makes sense?

I sure am NOT hearing that from any of the action shooters I've talked with today....

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

2. WHY are people defending Canon for a defenseless limit that makes no sense and that would be trivial to fix or to not have set in the first place???

That is because in M mode there is no limit. Why play in AV mode when M mode makes more sense??

Because what if you need EC? Did you miss where they lock out EC when using Auto ISO M?

All of us were hoping they'd add EC to AUTOISO M this time but they didn't. We saw that they added limits to Av so we thought we might be able to get away with taht instead of M but then they put on these ridiculous, arbitrary and really worse than arbitrary shutter speed max limits.

 

[jrista]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

@LTRLI: Um, dude...breathe...and read:

Seems to me that:

Auto ISO has the full range in all modes

Auto ISO limits can be set

When using Auto ISO shutter speed limits can be set.

Seems to me that Canon has been far from stupid in that the auto iso is better than the 1D4/1Ds3.

(Emphasis added.)

 

[tomscott]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

I don't know why people are complaining, why buy a pro DSLR and need auto ISO?? Takes less than a second to change it, you have all the information you need to see what your exposure is like through the viewfinder. If you need this I would say you should learn get back to basics.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

Semantics. Nothing is "required". You could shoot sports with a large format view camera, a pinhole camera, or get yourself a canvas and some paint. Doing some research? The Internet isn't required, get yourself a copy of Encyclopedia Brittanic (I mean it, get one now - they just went out of print, and will be online only henceforth). At some point, convenience becomes necessity. I'm not saying that Auto ISO is there yet, but it's a useful tool, and calling that ridiculous is, well...ridiculous.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

@LTRLI: Um, dude...breathe...and read:

Seems to me that:

Auto ISO has the full range in all modes

Auto ISO limits can be set

When using Auto ISO shutter speed limits can be set.

Seems to me that Canon has been far from stupid in that the auto iso is better than the 1D4/1Ds3.

(Emphasis added.)

Read this:

1. THE LIMITS MAKE NO SENSE AND MAKE IT USELESS FOR MANY OF THE VERY SITUATIONS WHERE IT WOULD BE MOST USEFULL

2. So what if it is a trace better this time and was a trace better last time. It's been like 15 years and it still doesn't work. It's a trivial thing to make work. A day one programmer can code AutoISO. We put man on the moon a few years. Why does AutoISO still have such silly restrictions?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

Yeah, it's hardly the end of the world.

But what confidence do you have in a camera company that can't get such an utterly trivial thing correct after 15 years? It's like nobody there has ever shot before.

Any why does it have such a nonsensical shutter speed limitation. There is absolutely no reason for it. It doesn't make it easier to make, cheaper, there is no point in it, but somebody, just decided to force some bizarre limit for no good reason and for many poor reasons.

 

[awinphoto]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

Just read the manual of the 5D III, 1/250 as fastest time for auto iso is bloody stupid. Still usless for sport and action. Might be of use for weddings but that its. Why are they doing this to us?

The manual says you can set the minimum shutter speed from 1/250 to 1 second... doesn't say anything about max shutter speed..

Just read the manual of the 5D III, 1/250 as fastest time for auto iso is bloody stupid. Still usless for sport and action. Might be of use for weddings but that its. Why are they doing this to us?

The manual says you can set the minimum shutter speed from 1/250 to 1 second... doesn't say anything about max shutter speed..

yeah and if you set it to 1/250th and it keep picking 1/250th rather than ISO3200 then you get 500 blurry as heck soccer or bird photos....

and why does the the OP get 6:1 ratio of negative smites for posting this? It's not HIS fault they made some nonsensical limitation. Don't you guys WANT cameras that work better in the field? Or is it more important to defend the honor of Canon at all costs???

Well, as you may well be aware, like the 7D, if you shoot in manual, set your shutter and app and auto iso, you dont have to really worry about that, do you? Or if shutter is of priority, shoot in TV, set your shutter, and let the camera do the aperture and auto ISO for you... it really isn't that hard. Lastly, I hope your not accusing me for his 6:1 ratio... I haven't given any smites to him that i'm aware of. I dont smite people because they think differently or give bad advice, I smite when things get personal.

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

2. WHY are people defending Canon for a defenseless limit that makes no sense and that would be trivial to fix or to not have set in the first place???

That is because in M mode there is no limit. Why play in AV mode when M mode makes more sense??

Because what if you need EC? Did you miss where they lock out EC when using Auto ISO M?

All of us were hoping they'd add EC to AUTOISO M this time but they didn't. We saw that they added limits to Av so we thought we might be able to get away with taht instead of M but then they put on these ridiculous, arbitrary and really worse than arbitrary shutter speed max limits.

All of us? Not me

EC in M mode with auto iso is an interesting contradition as you may move from one position that needed +EC to one that needed -EC so again you are fiddling with the dials instead of catching the moment.

FEC works in M mode though if you need it - ie outside flash.

In the time I have used M with auto iso I have never needed EC. Shooting in RAW just a tweek with levels is all that is needed.

I think you are looking for a problem that isn't there.

 

[awinphoto]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

@LTRLI: Um, dude...breathe...and read:

Seems to me that:

Auto ISO has the full range in all modes

Auto ISO limits can be set

When using Auto ISO shutter speed limits can be set.

Seems to me that Canon has been far from stupid in that the auto iso is better than the 1D4/1Ds3.

(Emphasis added.)

Read this:

1. THE LIMITS MAKE NO SENSE AND MAKE IT USELESS FOR MANY OF THE VERY SITUATIONS WHERE IT WOULD BE MOST USEFULL

2. So what if it is a trace better this time and was a trace better last time. It's been like 15 years and it still doesn't work. It's a trivial thing to make work. A day one programmer can code AutoISO. We put man on the moon a few years. Why does AutoISO still have such silly restrictions?

Unless you are shooting in full auto mode, which I would hope you wouldn't be shooting in if you are serious enough about photography to buy this level of camera, you wont have any problems with the minimum speed for the shutter... Shoot in Manual, AV or TV and you're golden... it isn't the end of the world.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

Well, as you may well be aware, like the 7D, if you shoot in manual, set your shutter and app and auto iso, you dont have to really worry about that, do you? Or if shutter is of priority, shoot in TV, set your shutter, and let the camera do the aperture and auto ISO for you... it really isn't that hard. Lastly, I hope your not accusing me for his 6:1 ratio... I haven't given any smites to him that i'm aware of. I dont smite people because they think differently or give bad advice, I smite when things get personal.

As already said.... and if you need EC?

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

Well, as you may well be aware, like the 7D, if you shoot in manual, set your shutter and app and auto iso, you dont have to really worry about that, do you? Or if shutter is of priority, shoot in TV, set your shutter, and let the camera do the aperture and auto ISO for you... it really isn't that hard. Lastly, I hope your not accusing me for his 6:1 ratio... I haven't given any smites to him that i'm aware of. I dont smite people because they think differently or give bad advice, I smite when things get personal.

As already said.... and if you need EC?

You correct it in post

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

It isn't a deal-breaker for 99% of people considering this camera for that kind of photography. Well, the people that matter anyway.

Wow, I guess you know everyone who's considering this camera, do you? At least, you know all the people that matter. Kudos to you for such an open and non-elitist attitude.

 

[JR]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

This thread and the other one on this topic made me very nervous tonight as Auto ISO in M mode was one of the features I am missing the most in my current 5D mkII. I must be missing something because after looking at the 5D mkIII manual, the shutter speed that is being refered to is the minimum shutter speed and seem to apply for Av mode but not for M mode. So in the motocross example earlier, why does the M mode not work for you guys? You simply set the shutter speed to what ever speed needed to freeze the sobject (say 1/500) and set aperture and let Auto ISO do the rest. I dont see how people call Canon stupid for this?

I must be missing something. I must say I dont use EC so...maybe I am stupid!

 

[arioch82]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

But I don't know anyone who requires auto ISO to shoot motocross. That's bloody ridiculous.

Sorry, have to completely disagree there. There are many situations where you need a fixed aperture for the proper DoF and a fixed shutter speed to stop action, but light levels can vary greatly during shooting. Birds in flight, where the subject flies with open sky vs. dark trees in the background. Motocross where half of the arena is sunlit and half is in shadow. For those situations, a functional Auto ISO in M mode is very, very convenient, especially one where you can set an upper limit for the ISO.

Convenient, but not required, which was my point. Disagree if you must, completely if necessary, but the second a camera manufacturer comes out with a feature or function that does not meet the expectations of everyone, suddenly the camera is useless? Um...no. Switch to nikon if you want that kind of auto ISO functionality. Canon hasn't had it, hasn't needed it, and people still shoot motocross with canon bodies without it. It isn't a deal-breaker for 99% of people considering this camera for that kind of photography. Well, the people that matter anyway. I don't shoot that kind of photography, but I have shot nature, extensively, without the convenience. I just push the button with the pip on it and spin the dial on the back when I need more shutter speed. It's not that big a deal.

nothing is required, according to your thoughts we should also thank Canon that offers Tv/Av modes when all we require is M.
I don't really understand why every time Canon is short of a feature (e.g. auto-iso, af-linked-point spot metering, etc.) the answer is "yeah switch to nikon if you don't like it", what kind of answer is that? Maybe we (as complaining people) have other reasons for sticking with Canon?
if everyone would settle down with what we currently have without complaining they simply wouldn't update their cameras, they won't make better products that no one is asking for.

is it missing a features? yes
is it really important for "you"? no
is it really important for others? yes

why can't some people simply accept that Canon can (and should) make better products offering basic features that the competition offers with cameras at a lower price?

(waiting for the first smite on the forum...)

 

[awinphoto]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

This thread and the other one on this topic made me very nervous tonight as Auto ISO in M mode was one of the features I am missing the most in my current 5D mkII. I must be missing something because after looking at the 5D mkIII manual, the shutter speed that is being refered to is the minimum shutter speed and seem to apply for Av mode but not for M mode. So in the motocross example earlier, why does the M mode not work for you guys? You simply set the shutter speed to what ever speed needed to freeze the sobject (say 1/500) and set aperture and let Auto ISO do the rest. I dont see how people call Canon stupid for this?

I must be missing something. I must say I dont use EC so...maybe I am stupid!

You are correct on your assumptions... I think the flaming is that the intentionally want to over or under expose using exposure compensation. It is allowed in app priority or shutter priority but not manual. This maybe I can understand but auto settings 1/250 limit I find silly.

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

This thread and the other one on this topic made me very nervous tonight as Auto ISO in M mode was one of the features I am missing the most in my current 5D mkII. I must be missing something because after looking at the 5D mkIII manual, the shutter speed that is being refered to is the minimum shutter speed and seem to apply for Av mode but not for M mode. So in the motocross example earlier, why does the M mode not work for you guys? You simply set the shutter speed to what ever speed needed to freeze the sobject (say 1/500) and set aperture and let Auto ISO do the rest. I dont see how people call Canon stupid for this?

I must be missing something. I must say I dont use EC so...maybe I am stupid!

Using M mode is the way to go - it does work and is proven in the 7D and the 1D4. Setting the shutter speed and the aperture gives the best composition to image, auto iso ensures the right amount of light gets in.

 

[jrista]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

From the horses mou...erm, manuals...pages:



Pg. 56:
Auto ISO Range: Minimum 100; Maximum 12800



Pg. 125:
ISO Auto

If the ISO speed is set to "A" (Auto), the actual ISO speed to be set will be displayed when you press the shutter button halfway. As indicated below, the ISO speed will be set automatically to suit the shooting mode:

Shooting Mode	ISO Speed Setting
A+	Automatically set within ISO 100 - 12800
P/ Tv/ Av/ M	Automatically set within ISO 100 - 26500 *1
B	Fixed at ISO 400 *1
With flash	Fixed at ISO 400 *1 *2 *3

*1: The actual ISO speed range depends on the [Minimum] and [Maximum] settings set in [Auto ISO Range].
*2: If fill flash will result in overexposure, ISO 100 or a higher ISO will be set.
*3: When using bounce flash with an external Speedlite in the <A+> and <P> modes, the ISO speed will automatically be set to ISO 400 - 1600.



As I get page 125, notes 1 and 2 indicate ISO will be set automatically within the full range, or if you have set Auto ISO Range limitations...within the range you have selected. In the case of bounce flash, it defaults to ISO 400 for third-party flashes, defaults to an ISO range of 400-1600 when using canon-brand Speedlight external flash, and WILL automatically select any ISO from 100 on if the camera metering decides the scene will over-expose.

From all that, it appears "Auto ISO" is pretty much indeed COMPLETELY automatic within the FULL RANGE of possible native ISO settings. The only case that seems limited outside of the context of exposure issues is Auto ISO + Flash when using a third party (i.e. non-Speedlite) brand.



Pg. 128

Setting the Minimum Shutter Speed for Auto ISO

When Auto ISO is set, you can set the minimum shutter speed (1/250th sec. to 1 sec.) so that the automatically set shutter speed is not too slow. This is convenient in both <P> and <Av> modes when you use a wide-angle lens to shoot a moving subject. You can minimize both camera shake and subject blur.



As I understand page 128, Canon is ALLOWING YOU to SET the minimum shutter speed to SOME SETTING between 1 second and 1/250th of a second. The goal would be to prevent a shutter speed that is TOO SLOW when using P or Av modes, where both the shutter speed and ISO setting would be automatically selected. I see no reason whatsoever to use a shutter speed slower than 1 second. A minimum shutter speed of 1/250th of a second seems entirely reasonable to me. I would rather have a slightly lower minimum shutter speed than be unable to get a shot because the camera can't set a higher ISO and can't set a shutter speed long enough to capture the shot.

According to page 224, there are some additional restrictions on Auto ISO Range, Min. Shutter Spd. and ISO Speed Settings WHEN SHOOTING VIDEO. This makes a lot of sense since you pick a specific shutter speed when you choose your video frame rate (i.e. 24/23.9fps). It also makes sense to limit auto ISO, as it cannot be varied smoothly...it can only be varied in 1/3rd stops. Having ISO constantly jitter around in 1/3rd stop jumps would be incredibly annoying for those watching your videos. It would be a hell of a lot better to set ISO manually as needed, and if necessary apply an exposure ramp during post processing to normalize exposure smoothly.

 

[briansquibb]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

This maybe I can understand but auto settings 1/250 limit I find silly.

Settings dont apply when in M mode - you are setting the shutter speed

 

[Crapking]

Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)

From the horses mou...erm, manuals...pages:



Pg. 56:
Auto ISO Range: Minimum 100; Maximum 12800



Pg. 125:
ISO Auto

If the ISO speed is set to "A" (Auto), the actual ISO speed to be set will be displayed when you press the shutter button halfway. As indicated below, the ISO speed will be set automatically to suit the shooting mode:

Shooting Mode	ISO Speed Setting
A+	Automatically set within ISO 100 - 12800
P/ Tv/ Av/ M	Automatically set within ISO 100 - 26500 *1
B	Fixed at ISO 400 *1
With flash	Fixed at ISO 400 *1 *2 *3

*1: The actual ISO speed range depends on the [Minimum] and [Maximum] settings set in [Auto ISO Range].
*2: If fill flash will result in overexposure, ISO 100 or a higher ISO will be set.
*3: When using bounce flash with an external Speedlite in the <A+> and <P> modes, the ISO speed will automatically be set to ISO 400 - 1600.



As I get page 125, notes 1 and 2 indicate ISO will be set automatically within the full range, or if you have set Auto ISO Range limitations...within the range you have selected. In the case of bounce flash, it defaults to ISO 400 for third-party flashes, defaults to an ISO range of 400-1600 when using canon-brand Speedlight external flash, and WILL automatically select any ISO from 100 on if the camera metering decides the scene will over-expose.

From all that, it appears "Auto ISO" is pretty much indeed COMPLETELY automatic within the FULL RANGE of possible native ISO settings. The only case that seems limited outside of the context of exposure issues is Auto ISO + Flash when using a third party (i.e. non-Speedlite) brand.

Who needs the facts when we have so many learned opinionators ??