Canon is just stupid - 5D3s AutoISO still crappy - EMAIL THEM HOW IT SHOULD WORK
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
I posted this in the other thread
If in M mode the EC gets applied to the iso so when Auto ISO is enabled then
EC is also enabled and acts on ISO only if auto ISO is disabled the EC is disabled as normal
it would be a pretty powerfull function IMO
helps keep control over Exposure and keeps the lowest iso but allowing flexability in changing light
Auto anything only ever works where scene metering is quite balanced
Being able to more accurately control the auto iso using EC applied to the iso would be awesome for these scenes where the standard metering gets all screwy
I totally see where LTRLI is coming from with this, it should not be too hard to implement through firmware
BTW i'm not complaining just saying it would be a cool feature
I posted this in the other thread
If in M mode the EC gets applied to the iso so when Auto ISO is enabled then
EC is also enabled and acts on ISO only if auto ISO is disabled the EC is disabled as normal
it would be a pretty powerfull function IMO
helps keep control over Exposure and keeps the lowest iso but allowing flexability in changing light
Auto anything only ever works where scene metering is quite balanced
Being able to more accurately control the auto iso using EC applied to the iso would be awesome for these scenes where the standard metering gets all screwy
I totally see where LTRLI is coming from with this, it should not be too hard to implement through firmware
BTW i'm not complaining just saying it would be a cool feature
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
HAH! Seriously. Its become a morbid Canon death fest around here with all the complainers coming out of the woodwork to bitch about everything from low ISO DR, noise of all kinds at all levels, the "limitations" of 22 megapixels, the supposedly "TERRIBLE" Auto ISO setting capabilities, etc. etc.
As far as I can tell, not a single one of the people complaining actually have a 5D III in their hands (which, if they did, I would be willing to bet good money they would be drooling and oogling rather than complaining), and the few who have actually held one and tried them out at one event or another have appeared to be thoroughly impressed DESPITE the apparently heinous deficiencies it has in comparison to the D800 and, well, just about every other freaking camera on earth.
Like...wow.
Crapking said:
HAH! Seriously. Its become a morbid Canon death fest around here with all the complainers coming out of the woodwork to bitch about everything from low ISO DR, noise of all kinds at all levels, the "limitations" of 22 megapixels, the supposedly "TERRIBLE" Auto ISO setting capabilities, etc. etc.
As far as I can tell, not a single one of the people complaining actually have a 5D III in their hands (which, if they did, I would be willing to bet good money they would be drooling and oogling rather than complaining), and the few who have actually held one and tried them out at one event or another have appeared to be thoroughly impressed DESPITE the apparently heinous deficiencies it has in comparison to the D800 and, well, just about every other freaking camera on earth.
Like...wow.
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Loswr
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
@jrista - I see you added the bit about the minimum shutter speed to your post, which was the OP's complaint, wanting a higher min shutter speed than 1/250 s. As you point out (and as Canon states), this feature was added to address a specific issue with Auto ISO, namely that in Av (and P) mode with Auto ISO, shutter speed has priority - the camera will drop the shutter to 1/focal length (1/1.6xFL for APS-C), and then start raising ISO. The problem is that with wide angle lenses like my 35L, it ends up at a shutter speed too slow to stop involuntary subject motion. This feature solves that issue nicely.
It's not, nor is it intended to be, fully customizable. Funny how no one's started a thread on the corollary - specifying a minimum aperture in Tv mode with Auto ISO, where with a fast f/1.2 or f/1.4 lens, the aperture will open to max before ISO is raised, leading to a DoF that's too thin - setting a 'floor' of f/1.8 or f/2 would be quite useful. The answer to that was given earlier in this contentious thread - if you want full-range selectable min and max for ISO, shutter speed, and aperture, get a 1-series body like the 1D X.
@jrista - I see you added the bit about the minimum shutter speed to your post, which was the OP's complaint, wanting a higher min shutter speed than 1/250 s. As you point out (and as Canon states), this feature was added to address a specific issue with Auto ISO, namely that in Av (and P) mode with Auto ISO, shutter speed has priority - the camera will drop the shutter to 1/focal length (1/1.6xFL for APS-C), and then start raising ISO. The problem is that with wide angle lenses like my 35L, it ends up at a shutter speed too slow to stop involuntary subject motion. This feature solves that issue nicely.
It's not, nor is it intended to be, fully customizable. Funny how no one's started a thread on the corollary - specifying a minimum aperture in Tv mode with Auto ISO, where with a fast f/1.2 or f/1.4 lens, the aperture will open to max before ISO is raised, leading to a DoF that's too thin - setting a 'floor' of f/1.8 or f/2 would be quite useful. The answer to that was given earlier in this contentious thread - if you want full-range selectable min and max for ISO, shutter speed, and aperture, get a 1-series body like the 1D X.
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
Hah so now the whole crowd that was telling those asking for more dynamic range nonsense about how you just need to learn to expose correctly now proposes that people don't even bother with exposure, just let it do what it does and fix it in post? Why have M mode than at all? Just fix it in post right?
briansquibb said:
Hah so now the whole crowd that was telling those asking for more dynamic range nonsense about how you just need to learn to expose correctly now proposes that people don't even bother with exposure, just let it do what it does and fix it in post? Why have M mode than at all? Just fix it in post right?
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
and??
what does that prove but our point that it forces you to pick a min speed no faster than 1/250th and that EC won't work in M mode, our very points
and??
what does that prove but our point that it forces you to pick a min speed no faster than 1/250th and that EC won't work in M mode, our very points
jrista said:
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
I think you missed the part where all those facts he listed are the same exact facts that we also listed and it is those facts where the problems lie.
Crapking said:
I think you missed the part where all those facts he listed are the same exact facts that we also listed and it is those facts where the problems lie.
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
So you think it makes sense that they disable EC in Auto ISO M mode?
That it makes sense for them to randomly lock out min shutter speeds higher than 1/250th?
How are those good things?
WHy are you defending them if you like Canon?
What if the next firmware release decides to eliminate M and Av modes?
Will you be wow, that's great! ???
It actually took effort, for sure with the shutter speed thing, to make it go wrong.
Why do you need to hold a 5D3 to understand that it will work as the manual says it will?
It's not the end of the world with AutoISO, but they put in nonsensical limitation for no reason.
jrista said:
jrista said:
So you think it makes sense that they disable EC in Auto ISO M mode?
That it makes sense for them to randomly lock out min shutter speeds higher than 1/250th?
How are those good things?
WHy are you defending them if you like Canon?
What if the next firmware release decides to eliminate M and Av modes?
Will you be wow, that's great! ???
It actually took effort, for sure with the shutter speed thing, to make it go wrong.
Why do you need to hold a 5D3 to understand that it will work as the manual says it will?
It's not the end of the world with AutoISO, but they put in nonsensical limitation for no reason.
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
the funny thing is the people who come out with the comments like that are the ones who usually turn out to have much less experience shooting
iso79 said:
the funny thing is the people who come out with the comments like that are the ones who usually turn out to have much less experience shooting
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
So you need a 1 series because one single byte of code difference?
That kind of crippling is utterly pathetic.
neuroanatomist said:
So you need a 1 series because one single byte of code difference?
That kind of crippling is utterly pathetic.
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Crapking
"Whatever you are....be a good one." AL
Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
Maybe I am mis-reading it then, but it seems the only time this 'minimum shutter speed limit' kicks in is in P or Av mode. While I see Neuro's and jrista's point, to me this seems to be just another small way to distinguish the 1 and 5 series, which should not be unexpected given the price differential.
LetTheRightLensIn said:
Maybe I am mis-reading it then, but it seems the only time this 'minimum shutter speed limit' kicks in is in P or Av mode. While I see Neuro's and jrista's point, to me this seems to be just another small way to distinguish the 1 and 5 series, which should not be unexpected given the price differential.
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
When the difference is two bytes of code, a single stored number difference, and when it's over such a semi-minor thing and when rebel-level models from other makers have had usable modes for years and when you are $500 more than competition, it's pretty sad form of marketing differentiation if that is what it is. I mean they have been dribbling out one itty bitty bit better AutoISO feature by one over more than decade. Why do you want to defend that? It actually costs more for them to make two versions of the code (although the change probably takes but a few seconds granted but still).
if the 1DX needs a usable AutoISO to make it sell, then the camera is doomed to begin with. If they feel that is what they need to make or break sales, then they have made a mega-mess of it and may as well not even release. I don't think that is the case. So their marketing droids are just being annoying for no reason.
other makers have had it across their lines for years
Crapking said:
When the difference is two bytes of code, a single stored number difference, and when it's over such a semi-minor thing and when rebel-level models from other makers have had usable modes for years and when you are $500 more than competition, it's pretty sad form of marketing differentiation if that is what it is. I mean they have been dribbling out one itty bitty bit better AutoISO feature by one over more than decade. Why do you want to defend that? It actually costs more for them to make two versions of the code (although the change probably takes but a few seconds granted but still).
if the 1DX needs a usable AutoISO to make it sell, then the camera is doomed to begin with. If they feel that is what they need to make or break sales, then they have made a mega-mess of it and may as well not even release. I don't think that is the case. So their marketing droids are just being annoying for no reason.
other makers have had it across their lines for years
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
Just two things.
One. If you want Canon to hear, your complaining to the wrong people. Call up Canon, Email Canon, find an official Canon forum, and make noise THERE. If you refuse to do that, your not really interested in being heard by Canon, your just interested in being heard, and being sensationalistic over minor issues is just a way to garner some attention. That doesn't really help anyone.
Two. I've never said I think everything Canon does is perfect. I have said on many occasions that I want more DR. I've also said that as far as my landscape photography goes, I could use more image resolution because I'm the type of guy who prints huge. Personally, I want 47mp FF, 16-bit with Sony-level now noise, 15.9 stops of DR, packed into a body with 61pt AF, 100k RGB metering sensor, 100% transmissive LCD viewfinder with a level visibile IN the viewfinder (not just the back LCD), 8fps and two CF card slots that support 1000x cards, built in gigabit ethernet, built in intervolometer with configurable bulb ramping, 5 custom dial modes and only Tv, Av, M and B as my other options. I WANT a hell of a lot. And I want it cheap. But you don't always get what you want. So right now, I want to enjoy what I CAN get, without dumping my entire, very expensive kit. The 5D III is a MASSIVE improvement over the 5D II. A hell of a lot more than anyone really expected...despite being a little less than we may have all wanted...with two full stops of improved native ISO and the best AF system the world has seen yet.
I could certainly complain...but then there is that whole 80/20 ratio rule thing. Its GOOD ENOUGH, and were all better off enjoying what it is (the 80%), rather than hating what its not (the 20%).
So, LTRLI...I really hope you gain something for all the effort you expend here on this forum complaining about what isn't. You certainly don't seem happy, when you probably could be if you simply decided to be satisfied with what is. There is always a next time, and as far as Canon goes, next time is probably not 4 years from now...it could very likely be right around the corner and just past summer. You could very likely get 90, maybe even 95% of what you so desperately want...if you just had a little patience. Of all the things that might spell the end of the world...Canon lacking a few bytes of AutoISO and shutter speed features probably isn't it.
LetTheRightLensIn said:
Just two things.
One. If you want Canon to hear, your complaining to the wrong people. Call up Canon, Email Canon, find an official Canon forum, and make noise THERE. If you refuse to do that, your not really interested in being heard by Canon, your just interested in being heard, and being sensationalistic over minor issues is just a way to garner some attention. That doesn't really help anyone.
Two. I've never said I think everything Canon does is perfect. I have said on many occasions that I want more DR. I've also said that as far as my landscape photography goes, I could use more image resolution because I'm the type of guy who prints huge. Personally, I want 47mp FF, 16-bit with Sony-level now noise, 15.9 stops of DR, packed into a body with 61pt AF, 100k RGB metering sensor, 100% transmissive LCD viewfinder with a level visibile IN the viewfinder (not just the back LCD), 8fps and two CF card slots that support 1000x cards, built in gigabit ethernet, built in intervolometer with configurable bulb ramping, 5 custom dial modes and only Tv, Av, M and B as my other options. I WANT a hell of a lot. And I want it cheap. But you don't always get what you want. So right now, I want to enjoy what I CAN get, without dumping my entire, very expensive kit. The 5D III is a MASSIVE improvement over the 5D II. A hell of a lot more than anyone really expected...despite being a little less than we may have all wanted...with two full stops of improved native ISO and the best AF system the world has seen yet.
I could certainly complain...but then there is that whole 80/20 ratio rule thing. Its GOOD ENOUGH, and were all better off enjoying what it is (the 80%), rather than hating what its not (the 20%).
So, LTRLI...I really hope you gain something for all the effort you expend here on this forum complaining about what isn't. You certainly don't seem happy, when you probably could be if you simply decided to be satisfied with what is. There is always a next time, and as far as Canon goes, next time is probably not 4 years from now...it could very likely be right around the corner and just past summer. You could very likely get 90, maybe even 95% of what you so desperately want...if you just had a little patience. Of all the things that might spell the end of the world...Canon lacking a few bytes of AutoISO and shutter speed features probably isn't it.
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Loswr
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
A bit here, a byte there, and sure, why not just make the 5DIII a 1D X in a smaller form factor and charge half the price. Hell, that 61 point AF should be in the next Rebel camera, and why not throw in a FF sensor, too.
Here's how it works. Canon makes design decisions, sometimes informed by customer needs/wants, sometimes independent of them. Canon builds cameras and markets them. A miniscule minority of people whine and prattle on about how this feature isn't what they wanted or that feature should have been implemented like this. A vast, overwhelming majority of people buy what is, for all intents and purposes, an excellent camera with many significant improvements relative to it's predecessor. Astoundingly enough, that overwhelming majority of buyers frequently includes many of the whiners, and most of that minority of complainers that didn't buy the camera had no intention of doing so in the first place. Canon makes a profit. The shareholders are happy. Canon teams pat themselves on the back, and start designing the next body which will implement even more incremental improvements, and generate the unavoidable and practically meaningless whining the next time around, unless said malcontents have in the meantime gone over to Apple Discussions to bitch about the new iPad.
Yes. On the 1DIV and 1DsIII, C.Fn I-13 is "Set aperture value range" and allows you to specify a smallest value between f/91-1.4 and a largest value between f/1.0-64. (<whine>damn canon sucks what if I need to set an f/stop range from f/76-91, but the smallest max aperture I can set is f/64 this feature is USELESS even though I didn't know it existed before reading this thread, but for sure I'm never buying that crippled 1-series body now</whine>).
I presume the 1D X will have similar functionality.
LetTheRightLensIn said:
A bit here, a byte there, and sure, why not just make the 5DIII a 1D X in a smaller form factor and charge half the price. Hell, that 61 point AF should be in the next Rebel camera, and why not throw in a FF sensor, too.
Here's how it works. Canon makes design decisions, sometimes informed by customer needs/wants, sometimes independent of them. Canon builds cameras and markets them. A miniscule minority of people whine and prattle on about how this feature isn't what they wanted or that feature should have been implemented like this. A vast, overwhelming majority of people buy what is, for all intents and purposes, an excellent camera with many significant improvements relative to it's predecessor. Astoundingly enough, that overwhelming majority of buyers frequently includes many of the whiners, and most of that minority of complainers that didn't buy the camera had no intention of doing so in the first place. Canon makes a profit. The shareholders are happy. Canon teams pat themselves on the back, and start designing the next body which will implement even more incremental improvements, and generate the unavoidable and practically meaningless whining the next time around, unless said malcontents have in the meantime gone over to Apple Discussions to bitch about the new iPad.
jrista said:
Yes. On the 1DIV and 1DsIII, C.Fn I-13 is "Set aperture value range" and allows you to specify a smallest value between f/91-1.4 and a largest value between f/1.0-64. (<whine>damn canon sucks what if I need to set an f/stop range from f/76-91, but the smallest max aperture I can set is f/64 this feature is USELESS even though I didn't know it existed before reading this thread, but for sure I'm never buying that crippled 1-series body now</whine>).
I presume the 1D X will have similar functionality.
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
come on, other makers have had it in xxD and xxxD tiers for years already
if it something SO necessary to sell the 1DX then why do a few of the people in this thread not even know about the feature or how to use it at all, it's just Canon marketing going to utterly silly lengths
anyway, if we had worked up storm here, where Canon very well may monitor things a bit, maybe we'd get them to stop doin silly things like this. If there is any forum where making a ruckuss might help, it woul dbe this one.
will anybody get a 1DX just because of this or in any reasonable part because of this? I doubt it.
do competitors from basically ALL other brands allow this at all levels? yes
so why on earth does canon marketing decided to do something like this?
but anyway thanks to all of the over the top fan boys it's obviously useless to make the sort of ruckuss that might help us get any changes made, so whatever, bye, be glad that you successfully fought to make sure your camera didn't become more usable, congrats to all....
come on, other makers have had it in xxD and xxxD tiers for years already
if it something SO necessary to sell the 1DX then why do a few of the people in this thread not even know about the feature or how to use it at all, it's just Canon marketing going to utterly silly lengths
anyway, if we had worked up storm here, where Canon very well may monitor things a bit, maybe we'd get them to stop doin silly things like this. If there is any forum where making a ruckuss might help, it woul dbe this one.
will anybody get a 1DX just because of this or in any reasonable part because of this? I doubt it.
do competitors from basically ALL other brands allow this at all levels? yes
so why on earth does canon marketing decided to do something like this?
but anyway thanks to all of the over the top fan boys it's obviously useless to make the sort of ruckuss that might help us get any changes made, so whatever, bye, be glad that you successfully fought to make sure your camera didn't become more usable, congrats to all....
neuroanatomist said:
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briansquibb
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
The 1 series is targeted for experienced and knowegable photographers who understand the parameters. Point and Shoot are there for those who want the camera to be fully automatic so the user just presses the shutter button. In between the cameras introduce increasingly more variable parameters until they get to the series 1.
The difficulty comes when the 1000D level user is under the impression that the gained knowlege is sufficient to
criticise Canon for leaving out features. Features which have been used by knowlegable photographers for years but not used in the auto fashion.
Like not using spot mode for following fast moving objects
Like using evaluative metering for fast moving objects
Like using auto iso for flash
Like using EC for manual mode
the list is endless
Nobody knows everything so we have to learn from others - this process is called education. As soon as you close your mind to education then you stop improving. This topic is new to most shooters so a certain amount of education is needed
What stick in my craw is that the pupils are abusing the educators.
Canon is NOT stupid ( THERE IS usable auto iso in 5D III)
LetTheRightLensIn said:
The 1 series is targeted for experienced and knowegable photographers who understand the parameters. Point and Shoot are there for those who want the camera to be fully automatic so the user just presses the shutter button. In between the cameras introduce increasingly more variable parameters until they get to the series 1.
The difficulty comes when the 1000D level user is under the impression that the gained knowlege is sufficient to
criticise Canon for leaving out features. Features which have been used by knowlegable photographers for years but not used in the auto fashion.
Like not using spot mode for following fast moving objects
Like using evaluative metering for fast moving objects
Like using auto iso for flash
Like using EC for manual mode
the list is endless
Nobody knows everything so we have to learn from others - this process is called education. As soon as you close your mind to education then you stop improving. This topic is new to most shooters so a certain amount of education is needed
What stick in my craw is that the pupils are abusing the educators.
Canon is NOT stupid ( THERE IS usable auto iso in 5D III)
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briansquibb
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
So you think that experienced and knowlegable shooters who are experienced in using auto iso know less than you do when you have no significant experience or knowlege of auto iso?
So you praise the 24-70II and slam the 5DIII without getting hands on experience - based on something you have (mis)read about.
LetTheRightLensIn said:
So you think that experienced and knowlegable shooters who are experienced in using auto iso know less than you do when you have no significant experience or knowlege of auto iso?
So you praise the 24-70II and slam the 5DIII without getting hands on experience - based on something you have (mis)read about.
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tt
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
Popcorn! Popcorn! Come and buy your popcorn!
In a more serious note - how do photographers give feedback to Canon through legitimate channels?
Not sure which country the OP is in to pass on an official email.
Can you file a bug report to their OS team? A feature suggestion?
As a side note - is anyone up for a "I may have argued about the 5D Mark III/1DX but I've bought one now & here's an awesome picture I took with it thread" ?
Popcorn! Popcorn! Come and buy your popcorn!
In a more serious note - how do photographers give feedback to Canon through legitimate channels?
Not sure which country the OP is in to pass on an official email.
Can you file a bug report to their OS team? A feature suggestion?
As a side note - is anyone up for a "I may have argued about the 5D Mark III/1DX but I've bought one now & here's an awesome picture I took with it thread" ?
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