Canon price gouging in UK

privatebydesign

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I thought one of the biggest price differentiators was currency fluctuations and, more importantly, the individual company predictions of them. Maybe the Canon bean counters expected the £ to devalue more than it has so set the annual prediction of £ to JP¥ somewhat differently to the others.

That doesn't help UK buyers in the least but I do remember reading it before.
 

AlanF

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Sorry, but best would be to ask Boris J. or Nigel F. about that ;)

But therefor you have better vaccination score than EU.
And your country doesn't have/want to export doses to poor (or any other) countries yet.
There is always two sides of the same coin. :cry:
The UK is providing vaccine to the rest of the world at cost price (e.g. $2.15 per dose in the EU) and has licensed free of charge production of the vaccine to the Serum Institute - the Oxford AZ vaccine is by far the largest vaccine distributed world wide. Contrast this with the German company Biontech that is making a fortune (Pfizer-Biontech $25-$37 per dose). The reason why the UK got off to a good start with vaccines is like the US it funded the research to make the novel vaccines by paying those and other companies in advance earlier last year. Contrast that with the EU that didn't fund the research, came in late to get the best price and then threatened to stop supplies to the UK to divert attention away from its planning failures.
 

AlanF

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I thought one of the biggest price differentiators was currency fluctuations and, more importantly, the individual company predictions of them. Maybe the Canon bean counters expected the £ to devalue more than it has so set the annual prediction of £ to JP¥ somewhat differently to the others.

That doesn't help UK buyers in the least but I do remember reading it before.
The differential prices were set this only this January when the UK left the EU single-market pricing, and in contrast the £ had been devalued immediately after the Brexit vote and has been relatively stable recently. The price leapt as soon as it was legally possible.
 

privatebydesign

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The UK is providing vaccine to the rest of the world at cost price (e.g. $2.15 per dose in the EU) and has licensed free of charge production of the vaccine to the Serum Institute - the Oxford AZ vaccine is by far the largest vaccine distributed world wide. Contrast this with the German company Biontech that is making a fortune (Pfizer-Biontech $25-$37 per dose). The reason why the UK got off to a good start with vaccines is like the US it funded the research to make the novel vaccines by paying those and other companies in advance earlier last year. Contrast that with the EU that didn't fund the research, came in late to get the best price and then threatened to stop supplies to the UK to divert attention away from its planning failures.
My vaccine story of the day. My wife got her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine today at the biggest site in our county. We have a 37% vaccination rate and no appointment is needed for first or second doses, there were six people getting shots. At the same site a few weeks ago when I got mine there were hundreds of people getting vaccinated.
 

AlanF

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My vaccine story of the day. My wife got her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine today at the biggest site in our county. We have a 37% vaccination rate and no appointment is needed for first or second doses, there were six people getting shots. At the same site a few weeks ago when I got mine there were hundreds of people getting vaccinated.
This should be in a piercing thread not a gouging one.
 

JPAZ

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My vaccine story of the day. My wife got her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine today at the biggest site in our county. We have a 37% vaccination rate and no appointment is needed for first or second doses, there were six people getting shots. At the same site a few weeks ago when I got mine there were hundreds of people getting vaccinated.
Not surprised, @privatebydesign.

I know a US Expat living in the EU (with a valid work visa) who flew transatlantic to the US, went to a pharmacy 4 miles from the US airport, got vaccinated, then returned to the EU same day because of inability to get vaccinated in Europe.

Even the US and Canada get different prices such that a person can save by purchasing in one country or the other depending on the current exchange rate...............
Two years ago, I saved a lot on my EOS R by ordering it from Canada.
Over the years, I've also purchased some Canon products from a Canadian store. Depending on the exchange rate, I've saved some $ by doing so. I don't know if the Canadian stores pay a different rate to Canon for their inventories or if the price differences are all due to the currency fluctuations.
 

SteveC

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I know a US Expat living in the EU (with a valid work visa) who flew transatlantic to the US, went to a pharmacy 4 miles from the US airport, got vaccinated, then returned to the EU same day because of inability to get vaccinated in Europe.
Now that is someone who really, really wanted to be vaccinated; that's 15 hours or so on an aircraft, probably cattle class.
 

JPAZ

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Now that is someone who really, really wanted to be vaccinated; that's 15 hours or so on an aircraft, probably cattle class.
@SteveC

Yeah but with all the travel restrictions, he said there were more flight crew than passengers on a B777. Said he had, literally, a whole area of the cabin to himself, maybe less than 20 passengers on the whole plane. This past year or so has, if nothing else, been crazy.
 
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Maximilian

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... The reason why the UK got off to a good start with vaccines is like the US it funded the research to make the novel vaccines by paying those and other companies in advance earlier last year. Contrast that with the EU that didn't fund the research...
It seems there again is a dis-/misinformation war taking place again on both sides of the Channel, maybe even worse than during the Brexit campaign. :cry:
I haven't seen any contracts about vaccines. I haven't seen any proves of any claims on both sides. But... (all not my opinion, but from the press)

Interesting that the several EU countries claim that they've paid for researches, too, e.g. Germany to Biontech and CureVac or France to Sanofi.
Interesting that the EU claims that they've paid a fortune, e.g. to AstraZeneca in advance. Especially to also deposit doses in late 2020 to give them to the EU as soon as the the approval in the EU was through. And when they asked for those deposits in early 2021 there was nothing, If that contracts show this, then that is a fraud from AstraZeneca. That's why the EU now canceled any further orders and go to court against AstraZeneca.
Interesting that the the EU also claims that exports of vaccines to other countries only takes place from their ground and India, meaning that e.g AstraZeneca or Pfizer/Biontech doses are only exported from EU/Indian facilities to other countries while UK facilities produce only for their home market.
The same for Moderna and J&J that stay in the US when made there and only are for the rest of the world when produced somewhere else.

It was said that 10 countries host/own more than 50 % of all vaccine doses. I wonder if those can handle the mutations coming from those countries left alone. :cry:

(now my opinion)
I thought that the approach of the EU - trying to make a fair distribution to all countries after an official approval - was a modern and globally thinking approach. Even though they were thinking about EU countries first and then going on helping other countries.
But nowadays "my country first" seems to rule. :mad:
 
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AlanF

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It seems there again is a dis-/misinformation war taking place again on both sides of the Channel, maybe even worse than during the Brexit campaign. :cry:
I haven't seen any contracts about vaccines. I haven't seen any proves of any claims on both sides. But... (all not my opinion, but from the press)

Interesting that the several EU countries claim that they've paid for researches, too, e.g. Germany to Biontec and CureVac or France to Sanofi.
Interesting that the EU claims that they've paid a fortune, e.g. to AstraZeneca in advance. Especially to also deposit doses in late 2020 to give them to the EU as soon as the the approval in the EU was through. And when they asked for those deposits in early 2021 there was nothing, If that contracts show this, then that is a fraud from AstraZeneca. That's why the EU now canceled any further orders and go to court against AstraZeneca.
Interesting that the the EU also claims that exports of vaccines to other countries only takes place from their ground and India, meaning that e.g AstraZeneca or Pfizer/Biontec doses are only exported from EU/Indian facilities to other countries while UK facilities produce only for their home market.
The same for Moderna and J&J that stay in the US when made there and only are for the rest of the world when produced somewhere else.

It was said that 10 countries host/own more than 50 % of all vaccine doses. I wonder if those can handle the mutations coming from those countries left alone. :cry:

(now my opinion)
I thought that the approach of the EU - trying to make a fair distribution to all countries after an official approval - was a modern and globally thinking approach. Even though they were thinking about EU countries first and then going on helping other countries.
But nowadays "my country first" seems to rule. :mad:
You brought up vaccines in the first place! The Oxford-AZ approach of allowing third parties to produce the vaccine at cost without Oxford making a profit has been the one that has worked and the overwhelming amount of vaccine actually in arms in lower income countries is the AZ vaccine (and in addition those from China and Russia). In contrast, Merkel rejected Biden’s proposal to relax IPR on vaccines so that they can be produced by third parties. The Pfizer vaccine being produced in Europe (Belgium) is being made in an American-owned company, and the EU prevented vaccine produced there to be sent to Australia. That major vaccine producing facility although being in Europe is actually a US factory.

I would make a large bet that EU Commission doesn’t win a court case against AZ.
 

Maximilian

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You brought up vaccines in the first place!
Yes I did. And I am sorry that I did so. And I aplogize to you that I went off topic.

And I wished that all the involved countries, companies and organizations would have acted much, much more cooperative and much less egoistic.
Especially for all the poor countries in the world.
But I see that there is a lot of misleading information spread. So I cannot stop yet. But I will after this last post.

Merkel rejected Biden’s proposal to relax IPR on vaccines so that they can be produced by third parties.
Yes she did. Instead she endorsed cooperations and joint ventures for making those vaccines.

I am sure that you as a chemist know better than me as an engineer how difficult those vaccines are to be made. It's not just mixing some ingredients like mixing a cocktail.
And if you don't then I can tell you that a colleague and friend of mine helped to build up Pfizer production lines in Marburg, GER, where today those vaccines are made. As well as vector or mRNA.
It took them two (!) years to make that production lines run in first. Maybe they could reduce a vaccine production launch with that knowledge down to 1/3 of this time. That's his guess. And that's the time they used during the trials to make the lines produce the vaccine.
But then it comes to all the QC and approvals of that production lines and so on. And we're talking about chemicals where slight impurities can lead to severe complications for the vaccinee.

So the proposed temporary relax IPR on vaccines would only work if it was for longer time periods than the politicians were willing to allow.
AND if the third parties would get direct help from the original companies.
What else is this than a cooperation or joint venture?

... The Pfizer vaccine being produced in Europe (Belgium) is being made in an American-owned company, and the EU prevented vaccine produced there to be sent to Australia. That major vaccine producing facility although being in Europe is actually a US factory. ...
And that is such a cooperation or joint venture.
Biontech (GER) invented its vaccine but without the help of Pfizer (USA) they wouldn't have been able to do the approvals, trials and multiply productions so fast.
Today they also have their own facilities here in Germany.
Same happens here with a cooperation of CureVac and Bayer. That CureVac, that Donald Trump tried to buy for his country. That CureVac that got more than 250 mio € from the German state.
Problem is that their vaccine hasn't passed all the necessary trials yet.

I would make a large bet that EU Commission doesn’t win a court case against AZ.
And I would not bet against you, for sure. But it shows that not only the EU did something wrong here.
 
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AlanF

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Yes I did. And I am sorry that I did so. And I aplogize to you that I went off topic.

And I wished that all the involved countries, companies and organizations would have acted much, much more cooperative and much less egoistic.
Especially for all the poor countries in the world.
But I see that there is a lot of misleading information spread. So I cannot stop yet. But I will after this last post.


Yes she did. Instead she endorsed cooperations and joint ventures for making those vaccines.

I am sure that you as a chemist know better than me as an engineer how difficult those vaccines are to be made. It's not just mixing some ingredients like mixing a cocktail.
And if you don't then I can tell you that a colleague and friend of mine helped to build up Pfizer production lines in Marburg, GER, where today those vaccines are made. As well as vector or mRNA.
It took them two (!) years to make that production lines run in first. Maybe they could reduce a vaccine production launch with that knowledge down to 1/3 of this time. That's his guess. And that's the time they used during the trials to make the lines produce the vaccine.
But then it comes to all the QC and approvals of that production lines and so on. And we're talking about chemicals where slight impurities can lead to severe complications for the vaccinee.

So the proposed temporary relax IPR on vaccines would only work if it was for longer time periods than the politicians were willing to allow.
AND if the third parties would get direct help from the original companies.
What else is this than a cooperation or joint venture?


And that is such a cooperation or joint venture.
Biontech (GER) invented its vaccine but without the help of Pfizer (USA) they wouldn't have been able to do the approvals, trials and multiply productions so fast.
Today they also have their own facilities here in Germany.
Same happens here with a cooperation of CureVac and Bayer. That CureVac, that Donald Trump tried to buy for his country. That CureVac that got more than 250 mio € from the German state.
Problem is that their vaccine hasn't passed all the necessary trials yet.


And I would not bet against you, for sure. But it shows that not only the EU did something wrong here.
I actually do have considerable experience in producing vectors, proteins, DNA and RNA. It is precisely because of the difficulties of forecasting production of biologicals that the pharma contracts for supplying them have clauses for "best efforts" at delivery and not absolute commitments. From what I gather, the problem with the EU Commission was that they didn't actually believe early on that vaccines would be available and were too bureaucratic to gamble that they would be and that you have to spread your bets far and wide and hope that some will work (Biotech investing is similar - spread your money over a wide range of companies and hope one strikes the big time.) Our Chief Scientific Officer, Sir Patrick Vallance, came from the pharma industry and knew this, and built up a clever team of experienced tech/industrial people under Kate Bingham who knew how to plan and take risks and build up supply chains in parallel. He also had the experience to add a first priority clause in the contract with Oxford-AZ (which had been missed by our bureaucrats). The reason why the UK over-ordered is because so many of the bets unexpectedly have come off. By the way, the Sanofi vaccine you mentioned is a joint venture with GSK. One of my scientific friends is now a multi-billionaire from Moderna.
 
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Codebunny

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Why we talking about Oxford-AZ when we have Valneva now? Sadly I have already had both shots of Oxford-AZ, but now more people across the world can benefit from Valneva.
 

AlanF

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Why we talking about Oxford-AZ when we have Valneva now? Sadly I have already had both shots of Oxford-AZ, but now more people across the world can benefit from Valneva.
We might have Valneva but it isn't licensed and we don't know how well it works. Valneva has only just entered Phase III trials and we don't how effective it is aside from inducing antibodies or the side effects. It is made closer to you though.
 

Codebunny

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We might have Valneva but it isn't licensed and we don't know how well it works. Valneva has only just entered Phase III trials and we don't how effective it is aside from inducing antibodies or the side effects. It is made closer to you though.

We also have Sputnik V not being used here yet to my knowledge and we should be using it instead of or at least in addition to Oxford-AZ.
 

gruhl28

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I'm from the US and lived for most of 1991 in the UK and was amazed at how much more expensive things were in the UK. It seemed that a car that would cost about $30,000 in the US would be about 25,000 pounds in the UK, and this was at a time when the pound was worth about $1.80. While it's true that UK prices include VAT and the US prices don't include sales tax (usually about 5% to 8%), that doesn't come close to explaining the difference. And from what I saw, salaries in the US were considerably higher than those in the UK, so purchasing power had nothing to do with the price differences. I don't know what the reason is, but most things are more expensive in the UK (and, I think, Europe in general). Of course, this doesn't explain Alan's point about the difference in price for Canon being more than the difference in price for Nikon and Sony.
 

AlanF

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Why we talking about Oxford-AZ when we have Valneva now? Sadly I have already had both shots of Oxford-AZ, but now more people across the world can benefit from Valneva.
There are billions in the world who would be overjoyed to have had two shots of that highly effective vaccine or any other.
 
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Codebunny

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There are billions in the world who would be overjoyed to have had two shots of that highly effective vaccine or any other.
They can look forward to getting getting one of the multiple flavours soon. Complete with microchips and voodoo magic.