Canon U.S.A. Introduces New VIXIA HF G40 And Three New VIXIA HF R-Series Camcorders

msm

EOS RP
Jun 8, 2013
309
1
bdunbar79 said:
msm said:
scyrene said:
msm said:
bdunbar79 said:
msm said:
neuroanatomist said:
AvTvM said:
that is what 1D-X users believe. If you read reviews, it is clear that Nikon's more recent AF implementations (e.g. D810, D750) are superior - especially in acquiring and tracking moving subjects with the help of color information.

A few weeks ago a friend and I swapped rigs for part of a birding shoot (eagles and owls) – his D810 and 800/5.6 for my 1D X and 600/4 II + 1.4x. While both bodies did an excellent job at initial acquisition (both of brown eagles against a green background and snowy owls against snow), we agreed that the 1D X did better at maintaining the lock (even with the TC).

Nice anecdote. How about you actually do some repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap like how subject moves, how well the photographer is able to keep focus points on right spot on the subject and light conditions, and perform the test repeatedly over a variation in all relevant autofocus parameters. Then your opinion could actually hold some weight instead of being considered the usual worthless internet garbage.

You mean like Tony Nothrup's conclusion that the D810 was a better sports camera than the 5D3? Tests like that? I'm sure that test took into consideration, whole-heartedly, the considerations you mention.

Got anything better to contribute than some lame strawman argument? If not it is better to not post at all.

Neuro's anecdote is worth more than the vague 'X is better than Y' it was countering, which offered no supporting evidence. Rigorous, controlled tests are much better of course, but nobody is arguing against that. Can you point us to some?

For distance tracking, ie photographer keeping a focus point on the subject then I have not seen any proper controlled tests. I would love to see it if someone has done it however. In the absence of such test, arguing that system X is better than system Y has no value.

When it comes to subject tracking DPReviews videos clearly demonstrate that Canon is far behind as it is almost useless while on Nikon or Sony it can actually be useful and more practical than manually changing focus point.

Wrong again. If you set it up properly, the 1Dx auto-switch point for tracking works just fine. I know because I do it. But hey, you watched a video, so that must be better! The internet said so! ;)

Maybe you can make a video to demonstrate how you successfully track the eye of your subject as it moves across the frame then, like DPReview did with the D750?
 

bdunbar79

EOS R6
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
41
Wadsworth, OH
It's just funny to me how AvTvM stated that Nikon's AF system was better than Canon's, i.e. the D810 and D750 due to color information, better as a whole. Based on NOTHING BUT spec sheets.

Yet you ignored him. You even dismissed a real-life example that neuro gave.

When someone else says Canon's is better, you jump all over it and argue, and argue, and argue. Yet you let his statements go.

But, you're not biased or anything. And, you watched videos on the inerrrrnet.
 

bdunbar79

EOS R6
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
41
Wadsworth, OH
msm said:
bdunbar79 said:
msm said:
scyrene said:
msm said:
bdunbar79 said:
msm said:
neuroanatomist said:
AvTvM said:
that is what 1D-X users believe. If you read reviews, it is clear that Nikon's more recent AF implementations (e.g. D810, D750) are superior - especially in acquiring and tracking moving subjects with the help of color information.

A few weeks ago a friend and I swapped rigs for part of a birding shoot (eagles and owls) – his D810 and 800/5.6 for my 1D X and 600/4 II + 1.4x. While both bodies did an excellent job at initial acquisition (both of brown eagles against a green background and snowy owls against snow), we agreed that the 1D X did better at maintaining the lock (even with the TC).

Nice anecdote. How about you actually do some repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap like how subject moves, how well the photographer is able to keep focus points on right spot on the subject and light conditions, and perform the test repeatedly over a variation in all relevant autofocus parameters. Then your opinion could actually hold some weight instead of being considered the usual worthless internet garbage.

You mean like Tony Nothrup's conclusion that the D810 was a better sports camera than the 5D3? Tests like that? I'm sure that test took into consideration, whole-heartedly, the considerations you mention.

Got anything better to contribute than some lame strawman argument? If not it is better to not post at all.

Neuro's anecdote is worth more than the vague 'X is better than Y' it was countering, which offered no supporting evidence. Rigorous, controlled tests are much better of course, but nobody is arguing against that. Can you point us to some?

For distance tracking, ie photographer keeping a focus point on the subject then I have not seen any proper controlled tests. I would love to see it if someone has done it however. In the absence of such test, arguing that system X is better than system Y has no value.

When it comes to subject tracking DPReviews videos clearly demonstrate that Canon is far behind as it is almost useless while on Nikon or Sony it can actually be useful and more practical than manually changing focus point.

Wrong again. If you set it up properly, the 1Dx auto-switch point for tracking works just fine. I know because I do it. But hey, you watched a video, so that must be better! The internet said so! ;)

Maybe you can make a video to demonstrate how you successfully track the eye of your subject as it moves across the frame then, like DPReview did with the D750?

I don't owe you nor anyone else a video. If you can't do it, switch to Nikon.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Jul 21, 2010
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msm said:
Nice anecdote. How about you actually do some repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap like how subject moves, how well the photographer is able to keep focus points on right spot on the subject and light conditions, and perform the test repeatedly over a variation in all relevant autofocus parameters. Then your opinion could actually hold some weight instead of being considered the usual worthless internet garbage.

msm said:
When it comes to subject tracking DPReviews videos clearly demonstrate that Canon is far behind as it is almost useless while on Nikon or Sony it can actually be useful and more practical than manually changing focus point.

The two DPR YouTube vids you linked clearly demonstrate nothing. They have different subjects, different lighting, different magnitude and speed of camera motion, and no information about camera configuration. If you believe that constitutes 'repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap' than you have a serious mental defect.
 

bdunbar79

EOS R6
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
41
Wadsworth, OH
neuroanatomist said:
msm said:
Nice anecdote. How about you actually do some repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap like how subject moves, how well the photographer is able to keep focus points on right spot on the subject and light conditions, and perform the test repeatedly over a variation in all relevant autofocus parameters. Then your opinion could actually hold some weight instead of being considered the usual worthless internet garbage.

msm said:
When it comes to subject tracking DPReviews videos clearly demonstrate that Canon is far behind as it is almost useless while on Nikon or Sony it can actually be useful and more practical than manually changing focus point.

The two DPR YouTube vids you linked clearly demonstrate nothing. They have different subjects, different lighting, different magnitude and speed of camera motion, and no information about camera configuration. If you believe that constitutes 'repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap' than you have a serious mental defect.

I guess it demonstrates bias.
 

msm

EOS RP
Jun 8, 2013
309
1
neuroanatomist said:
msm said:
Nice anecdote. How about you actually do some repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap like how subject moves, how well the photographer is able to keep focus points on right spot on the subject and light conditions, and perform the test repeatedly over a variation in all relevant autofocus parameters. Then your opinion could actually hold some weight instead of being considered the usual worthless internet garbage.

msm said:
When it comes to subject tracking DPReviews videos clearly demonstrate that Canon is far behind as it is almost useless while on Nikon or Sony it can actually be useful and more practical than manually changing focus point.

The two DPR YouTube vids you linked clearly demonstrate nothing. They have different subjects, different lighting, different magnitude and speed of camera motion, and no information about camera configuration. If you believe that constitutes 'repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap' than you have a serious mental defect.

Well in this case the results are so clear that anyone above or near average intelligence understands that it would not change the outcome in any significant way. But hey if we are wrong, feel free to make a video to demonstrate it.
 

Maui5150

EOS RP
Sep 21, 2011
564
0
neuroanatomist said:
msm said:
Nice anecdote. How about you actually do some repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap like how subject moves, how well the photographer is able to keep focus points on right spot on the subject and light conditions, and perform the test repeatedly over a variation in all relevant autofocus parameters. Then your opinion could actually hold some weight instead of being considered the usual worthless internet garbage.

msm said:
When it comes to subject tracking DPReviews videos clearly demonstrate that Canon is far behind as it is almost useless while on Nikon or Sony it can actually be useful and more practical than manually changing focus point.

The two DPR YouTube vids you linked clearly demonstrate nothing. They have different subjects, different lighting, different magnitude and speed of camera motion, and no information about camera configuration. If you believe that constitutes 'repeatable testing where you take out all the random crap' than you have a serious mental defect.

Shsh. You are ruining the argument. Since when do logic and results need to be presented.

Now if they had done the exact same test.

Testing of these is EASY. Two set ups, side by side at sporting events. Do auto racing, football etc. Have a general idea so you are shooting roughly same thing same times. Easy peasy.

Besides. Shouldn't we me comparing the 1DX to the Nikon D6 which will be announced end of the year?

Maybe Nikon Should start using 1s in there model name. So you have the D500, summer the D501, Winter the D502, Summer D503, then D510, D511, D512....

Yawn
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
Hehe, the Canon Defense League got into full swing again!

While I have not yet tried the D5 myself, I have used many Canon and Nikon DSLRs. Even casual testing has shown me that D750 and D810 Af system is way better in acquiring abd tracking moving subjects (using default settings, no optimized AF paraneters) than the one in my 5D3.

D5 spec sheet is very factual: -4 EV on central Af foeld, -3 EV on all pthers. 15 cross sensors active with f/8 lens. Nothing Any Canon can even remotely touch.
Color trackibg on Canon DSLRs is there, but extremely useless in real life. Color tracking/ "3D" AF in Nikon cameras is very effective. I've tried it and it is immediately evident.

Whteher brown eagles offer enough color contrast against muddy brownish background or snow owls against snow or chimney sweepers in black chimbey, is pretty mich irrelevant to me. Canon top AF systems are only good when moving subjects move directly towards the lens (pr away from it) AND operator manages to kerp the AF field on the subject. Nikon top Af systems are good in all real-life situations, where moving subjects move at some angle to the optical axis across the screen. And they are much better at initial focus acquisition.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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msm said:
Well in this case the results are so clear that anyone above or near average intelligence understands that it would not change the outcome in any significant way. But hey if we are wrong, feel free to make a video to demonstrate it.

Oh, yeah – they're as clear as Northrup's D810 'sports test' comparison to the 5DIII, which IIRC you cited months back as 'evidence'. Even his model commented that it was not a sports test but a 'moving portrait', it was flawed based on settings...but you swallowed his conclusion hook, line and sinker. Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?


Maui5150 said:
Shsh. You are ruining the argument. Since when do logic and results need to be presented.

Now if they had done the exact same test.

Testing of these is EASY. Two set ups, side by side at sporting events. Do auto racing, football etc. Have a general idea so you are shooting roughly same thing same times. Easy peasy.

Or two cameras, optimally configured by their experienced owners, on tripods side by side with similar focal length lenses tracking the same birds.
 

bdunbar79

EOS R6
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
41
Wadsworth, OH
AvTvM said:
Hehe, the Canon Defense League got into full swing again!

While I have not yet tried the D5 myself, I have used many Canon and Nikon DSLRs. Even casual testing has shown me that D750 and D810 Af system is way better in acquiring abd tracking moving subjects (using default settings, no optimized AF paraneters) than the one in my 5D3.

D5 spec sheet is very factual: -4 EV on central Af foeld, -3 EV on all pthers. 15 cross sensors active with f/8 lens. Nothing Any Canon can even remotely touch.
Color trackibg on Canon DSLRs is there, but extremely useless in real life. Color tracking/ "3D" AF in Nikon cameras is very effective. I've tried it and it is immediately evident.

Whteher brown eagles offer enough color contrast against muddy brownish background or snow owls against snow or chimney sweepers in black chimbey, is pretty mich irrelevant to me. Canon top AF systems are only good when moving subjects move directly towards the lens (pr away from it) AND operator manages to kerp the AF field on the subject. Nikon top Af systems are good in all real-life situations, where moving subjects move at some angle to the optical axis across the screen. And they are much better at initial focus acquisition.

Odd. Of the 30 or so football and soccer games I shot last fall, plenty of action diagonally towards or away from me that I didn't miss. And that was with a 400mm lens at f/2.8. I actually missed very few shots. But you know, Internet videos know better.
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
And of course the D5 and D500 Auto AF finetune feature was in reality also "invented by Canon" and is "much better implemented" in Canon cameras ...

A hard day for the Canon Defense League today, isn't it? :D
 

bdunbar79

EOS R6
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
41
Wadsworth, OH
AvTvM said:
And of course the D5 and D500 Auto AF finetune feature was in reality also "invented by Canon" and is "much better implemented" in Canon cameras ...

A hard day for the Canon Defense League today, isn't it? :D

Not really. You're actually making it really easy.
 

et31

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 10, 2014
70
0
Strange how this forum thread topic went from "camcorder" technology, to 1Dx and D5, D4s, and D810 comparisons for AF speed of tracking. ::)
ADD much!
;D

I'm quite certain that the next topic regarding the D5 and 1Dx MII release will cause plenty of boxing!
Until then, enjoy your 11 stops of light wars on micro sensors in camcorders.
How about a bigger EVF for a change?
canon-vs-nikon1.jpg
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
et31 said:
How about a bigger EVF for a change?

You're right. Sorry for the off-topic and for inflaming the Canon Defense League Klan.
However, I do not want a BIGGER EVF but rather a 4k one! 3840x2160x3(or 4) subpixels. What's your guess, who will bring it first?

1. Canon on their next "VEXED" camcorder?
2. Canon in their next "DIGITAL NERD" compact cam?
3. Canon on their next "iOS" mirrorslapper?
4. Nikon in their next "ONETON" mirrorless thing?
5. Sony in their 2017 "A7R III" that i will buy?
;D
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
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Jan 29, 2011
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AvTvM said:
et31 said:
How about a bigger EVF for a change?

You're right. Sorry for the off-topic and for inflaming the Canon Defense League Klan.
However, I do not want a BIGGER EVF but rather a 4k one! 3840x2160x3(or 4) subpixels. What's your guess, who will bring it first?

1. Canon on their next "VEXED" camcorder?
2. Canon in their next "DIGITAL NERD" compact cam?
3. Canon on their next "iOS" mirrorslapper?
4. Nikon in their next "ONETON" mirrorless thing?
5. Sony in their 2017 "A7R III" that i will buy?
;D

That is what you said about the A7R MkII when the A7R came out, at least you are consistent. ::)
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
Oh, one more Canon Defense League member joining in, welcome to the party!
How do you like the new Vexit, Elvis and Digital nerd offerings from Canon? Breakthrough Canon innovation, right? Dwarf-sensor-Class-leading performance!!! ;D
 

privatebydesign

EOS-1D X Mark III
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
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AvTvM said:
Oh, one more Canon Defense League member joining in, welcome to the party!
How do you like the new Vexit, Elvis and Digital nerd offerings from Canon? Breakthrough Canon innovation, right? Dwarf-sensor-Class-leading performance!!! ;D

If you mean me and my rational common sense approach to your excessive hyperbolic tirades, then I'll take the epithet. Tell me, what did I say that was incorrect?

Don't do video at all so I have no views on the cameras, I will say I am excited about the Selphy CP1200. I got the CP920 recently and absolutely love it, the best accessory ever for a travel photographer, and the return to the attachable battery on the CP1200 is a real boon and space saver. The fact that the often denigrated PictBridge aspect of my 1 series cameras allows in camera editing and direct printing is a truly amazing feature, as is direct printing from any iOS device and SD cards.

A true marvel of technology in a tiny package that produces priceless memories for people, and opens doors for inquisitive photographers.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
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Jul 21, 2010
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AvTvM said:
And of course the D5 and D500 Auto AF finetune feature was in reality also "invented by Canon" and is "much better implemented" in Canon cameras ...

I'd say it's an interesting feature, but we'll need to see how well it's implemented. CDAF is accurate, but not perfectly precise. Does the automatic version rely on a single CDAF shot? If so, I wouldn't trust it.
 

msm

EOS RP
Jun 8, 2013
309
1
neuroanatomist said:
msm said:
Well in this case the results are so clear that anyone above or near average intelligence understands that it would not change the outcome in any significant way. But hey if we are wrong, feel free to make a video to demonstrate it.

Oh, yeah – they're as clear as Northrup's D810 'sports test' comparison to the 5DIII, which IIRC you cited months back as 'evidence'. Even his model commented that it was not a sports test but a 'moving portrait', it was flawed based on settings...but you swallowed his conclusion hook, line and sinker. Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

IIRC I dislike and avoid Northrups reviews and would never cite them so there goes that post out of the window. I take note of the fact that you ignored my challenge to prove me wrong and instead come with half assed strawman and some insults. I think that is quite telling.
 

AvTvM

EOS R6
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
privatebydesign said:
Don't do video at all so I have no views on the cameras, I will say I am excited about the Selphy CP1200. I got the CP920 recently and absolutely love it, the best accessory ever for a travel photographer, and the return to the attachable battery on the CP1200 is a real boon and space saver. The fact that the often denigrated PictBridge aspect of my 1 series cameras allows in camera editing and direct printing is a truly amazing feature, as is direct printing from any iOS device and SD cards.
A true marvel of technology in a tiny package that produces priceless memories for people, and opens doors for inquisitive photographers.

Thanks Private - point well taken! Mileage really does vary for different people/users of products. I would never have touched something like the CP1200 - but I can absolutely relate to what you say - especially your last sentence. A little mobile printer adds "Instant print capabilty" to your full-blown digital gear - a modern day Polaroid/Instax so to speak ... and presumably at a higher quality level. There are definitely situations were immediate printed handouts are just great to have ... OTOH it means having to carry around yet another piece of gear ... btw: what type of battery does that printer use? LP-E6 would be interesting or is it AA-type?

Re. Canon Defense League: I just notice it is always the same 5 or 6 people that rush to Canon's Defense in some way, any time I post something Canon-critical - granted, often in a very hyperbolic "style". Not meant as an insult against you, rather as a somewhat "ironical epithet". ;)
 
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