Canon USA officially announces the Canon Cinema EOS C70

EOS 4 Life

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 20, 2020
74
39
I remember seeing a news blurb on a vendor site that stated the adapter was compatible with other Canon R mirrorless cameras, but can’t find it now.
The adapter will work as a focal reducer in any camera with an RF mount, but both the camera and lenses need a firmware update for the camera to control the lens.
 

paulo defender

I'm New Here
Aug 31, 2018
11
11
Some C700 people were already upset about the capabilites of the C500 Mark II for a lot less money

Same thing happened again with the C300 Mark III with DGO and 4k120p agaist the C500 Mark II which is 6k FF, but much more expensive and omits these things.

And now we can't ignore the fact that the C70 costs exactly half of that, it has most of the C300 Mark III capabilites with the same sensor coupled to a newer, much more flexible lens mount.
Then there is the C200, which is currently priced exactly the same. Bigger and older techology, but it has the EVF and ergonomics to go with it.
It might get even cheaper still.
So it is not like Canon is not giving you enough choices.
It is quite amazing, how many features have started to appear in the lower categories considering the C500 Mark II was annouced just one year ago!

People should think about this before complaining.
I know what you mean Padam, we are indeed spoilt for choice now and it's important to remember that. But it's also important for all companies, who do read forums like this to get feedback on what consumers need and think about their products in order to adapt and tailor them to future markets. I really think the c70 looks almost perfect for my needs and that canon are doing a great job in pushing the technology, I'm one hundred percent behind them. I won't however be able to purchase or use this camera in the way that I need to for my full time work because it doesn't have a viewfinder, which I personally rely on and that's a real shame for me. I'm not complaining so much as saying that I'm gutted that the c70 is the one that got away, so close to what I want but not quite.

And I'm English so if I don't complain there's a real danger I could become quite ill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rocksthaman

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,064
706
I know what you mean Padam, we are indeed spoilt for choice now and it's important to remember that. But it's also important for all companies, who do read forums like this to get feedback on what consumers need and think about their products in order to adapt and tailor them to future markets. I really think the c70 looks almost perfect for my needs and that canon are doing a great job in pushing the technology, I'm one hundred percent behind them. I won't however be able to purchase or use this camera in the way that I need to for my full time work because it doesn't have a viewfinder, which I personally rely on and that's a real shame for me. I'm not complaining so much as saying that I'm gutted that the c70 is the one that got away, so close to what I want but not quite.

And I'm English so if I don't complain there's a real danger I could become quite ill.
Just look at what the competiton is doing, with the Sony FX9 and FX6 and it is the exact same trend.
Built-in electronic viewfinders on smaller, cheaper cinema cameras seem to be going away.
They are making them more modular (which means smaller, lighter, cheaper for the level of features they are able to provide)
Both Canon and Sony think of it the same way, alongside some others, where there is also no fixed EVF.

I do not think these big companies consider complaining on forums as any form of meaningful feedback.
At the minimum it should be a YT video from a member with good enough reputation.
 

EOS 4 Life

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 20, 2020
74
39
Just look at what the competiton is doing, with the Sony FX9 and FX6 and it is the exact same trend.
Built-in electronic viewfinders on smaller, cheaper cinema cameras seem to be going away.
They are making them more modular, both Canon and Sony think the same way, alongside some others where there is also no fixed EVF.
The C200 EVF was in a terrible spot.
Most people paid $1,500 for a better one.
I did not think anyone used it before I heard complaints about the C70 missing one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: padam

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
634
138
I'd been toying with the idea of getting a Blackmagic Design Cinema 6K pocket camera.

Can some of you in the know compare and give the pros/cons between that and this EOC C70?

The BM camera can shoot RAW which I don't believe this one can, that would be a strike I'd think.

Do ya'll think RAW (internal or external) might be soon coming for the C70?


But if anyone has time off the top of their heads can you compare the BM with the Canon new offering here?

Which looks better to you and why?


Thanks in advance,

cayenne
---

The video press release itself said that RAW would not be installed INITIALLY! That "INITIALLY" key word indicates a FUTURE addition via a camera BIOS update. From a technical point of view, many FULL 12-bit 4:4:4 RAW and 2:1 to 6:1 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 10-bit RAW video formats are merely a long chain of bitwise LZW-type run-length compression of a localized 2x2, 4x4, 8x8 or 16x16 grid of true pixel values so it's actually quite easy to implement (i.e. 5 pages or less of C/C++ code) The larger the 2D-XY or 3D-XYZ grid of pixels you are run-length encoding, the greater the likely LOSSLESS compression ratio you will achieve. A 6:1 lossless compression ratio over 4 to 30 frames SEEMS to be the upper limit depending upon what subject matter was shot. (i.e. how much fine detail is in the scene where fine detail is hard to run length compress)

I am suggesting that Canon will add multiple RAW formats to the C70 PROBABLY around March or April of next year 2021 to allow for testing before the 2021 Tokyo Olympics!

I suspect that Canon won't reinvent the wheel and will use modified versions of the ones on the Canon 1Dx3 DSLR slightly dumbed down. I also suspect the BEST RAW lossless compression ratio will be 4:4:4 RAW 10-bit 3:1 which is quite excellent for a video camera in the price range of the C70.

I would be more than happy to get that for outdoor B-cam Green Screen Work on a Gimbal. That is great quality for green screen composite work yet will STILL PLAY on my older MacBook Pros (3+ years old) without stuttering. That should be good enough for almost all low-to-medium budget production cinematographers (i.e. for product commercials or marketing videos). This C70 camera will make you some pretty decent profit if you KNOW how to light your green screen set properly!

For VIDEO PROS, you use a camera like the Canon C70 to MAKE MONEY, which means you need to spend enough money to ensure that your camera CAN and WILL do the job for let's say outdoor green screen work YET allows you to charge enough of a daily rate that you can pay for the camera in as little as six months to one year if you buy it outright!

For a camera like this, we would normally LEASE two to eight of them rather than buy then outright, and we would ensure our payments would be on a 24 month or 36 month term (i.e. 2 to 3 years) and charge enough of a daily rate that I would actually have them PAID for and have enough money left over for the end-of-lease buyout within 1.5 to 2 years! That type of payment schedule ENSURES you will stay solvent with a bit of EXTRA PROFIT at the end of each month. After that 2 year or 3 year lease period and final buyout at the end of the lease term, you should be making ALL GRAVY in terms of total production profit because that camera should last for at least 5 to 7 years even in hard use! I don't see 8K production for most consumers coming out until at least 2025 so a 4K video camera like this C70 makes PERFECT sense for the run-n-go camera operator or the outdoor gimbal green screen pro.

I'm pretty sure this camera WILL outsell the C200 and probably the Sony A7s3 too! It has just so much going for it right out of the box.

I do suggest a buying decent cage and a Zacuto-brand viewfinder with the soft eyecup though to round out the C70's abilities!

V

P.S. ANOTHER PLACE where this camera will shine is making 32:9 Super Widescreen Videos on higher end drones or bigger gimbals or large Steadicams. You put THREE of these C70's on that type of setup and your super-widescreen product showcase WILL BE AWESOME for Youtube and Vimeo marketing purposes!

.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Franklyok

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
634
138
I doubt it is possible to record RAW while using DGO.
I still would probably choose RAW whenever I had the time anyway.
---

This kind of depends upon the TYPE and SPEED of DSP (Digital Signal Processor) being used on the C70. As an engineer, you COULD just choose ONE mode for the sensor and capture RAW only in that mode! I think your note IS the reason WHY the C70 RAW mode software is delayed. Someone has to do the math to ensure the DSP can actually set and handle RAW on a DGO-type sensor. Again, I suspect the RAW video format microcode on the Canon 1Dx3 is BEING ported and modified as quickly as they can but I am probably right in that it won't be released until at least March/April 2021 because of the sheer amount of real-world testing that is needed to implement on a C70 so that sudden GOTCHA's don't show up for the end-user.

V
 

jvillain

EOS 90D
Sep 29, 2018
197
143
I'd been toying with the idea of getting a Blackmagic Design Cinema 6K pocket camera.
Can some of you in the know compare and give the pros/cons between that and this EOC C70?
The BM camera can shoot RAW which I don't believe this one can, that would be a strike I'd think.
Do ya'll think RAW (internal or external) might be soon coming for the C70?
But if anyone has time off the top of their heads can you compare the BM with the Canon new offering here?
Which looks better to you and why?
Thanks in advance,
cayenne
I have the BMPCC 6K so I will take a swing at it.

The form factor for the C70 is mostly better. Because of the limitations of the BMPCC you have to do at least some rigging out in order to do any serious work. The first thing is the battery. I haven't even stopped to see how long I can shoot on the LP6N as the reviews were universally horrible so I went straight to a V mount.

The C70 has a flippy screen. It is so small as to be near useless but DPAF may be good enough to keep you from having to get an external monitor but I suspect if you are shooting outside you will need an external monitor. Depending on what you shoot you may not need a follow focus system for the C70, most people will atleast want one for the BMPCC.

Media is going to be a cost factor. BMD is miles ahead of every one else on this. I have a couple of 1TB T5s I swap out on the BMPCC and getting the data off the cards and into the computer is ridiculously easy. 2TB of cards for the C70 will probably cost more than the C70. The file size of BRAW is crazy small compared to even CLOG so you are going to be paying more for storage on your computer with the C70.

Dual phantom power mini XLRs on the C70 probably means you can leave the external recorder at home for interviews. The BMPCC has pretty good audio options as well but only a single mini XLR. I suspect the C70 doesn't support 32bit float and neither does the BMPCC but every cinema camera going forward should. Both support time code but the SDI on the C70 is more industry standard.

The Black Magic menus make Canons menus look like Sony's. They say the C70 has a new menu system, lets hope so but I suspect that just means they have added another green tab. The presets are awesome on the BMPCC but the physical buttons on the C70 are on a whole other level.

The built in ND filters on the C70 are huge. Add up the cost of a full set of NDs and possible a matte box for the BMPCC and you are talking real money.

The C70 will work much better on a gimbal. The form factor of the BMPCC is really bad for that.

Because of the RF mount the number of lenses you will be able to mount on the C70 will be considerably greater than what you can do with the BMPCC. The big one being PL mount where there are adapters for the the EF mount that the BMPCC 6K uses but they don't work with all PL mount lenses. Both cameras will use the IS in your lens if it has it. The C70 adds digital IS but I am not exactly thrilled with Canons digital IS on the R and usually turn it off. But in some cases it may mean not having to balance a gimbal or bust out the sticks.

Where the rubber meets the road is the sensor and I haven't shot on the C300 so I can't really compare but the difference in the sensor of the EOS R ( 5DIV sensor) vs the BMPCC was jaw dropping. If you deliver 2K the C70 will give you some extra room to straighten the horizon, crop etc. If you deliver in 4K then you will really miss the extra room you get from shooting 6K. It is hard to say what the situation will be with high frame rates on the C70.

So at the end of the day once you rig out the BMPCC you are getting pretty close to the price of the C70 if you don't need to rig the C70. I am guessing Smallrig and Tilta are going to make good money off people caging and rigging the C70s just not as much as they made with the BMPCC. The form factor of the C70 will be a lot less conspicuous than a fully rigged BMPCC so will draw a lot less attention from the camera cops. Do you need RAW and do you need a sensor greater than 4K? What are you shooting? If it is one man crew talking head or run and gun C70 is the likely answer. If you are shooting long form dramas the BMPCC.

If the C70 had been on the official Canon road map (snort) I probably wouldn't have jumped to Black Magic even though I am still harbouring a powerful hate for all the times Canon has F'd me over over the last few years. But now that I have moved over to Black Magic I am probably never coming back.

As for the Komodo yes you can buy it for a bit more than the C70. But you still need to rig out the Komodo and that will push it into another price bracket.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cayenne

jvillain

EOS 90D
Sep 29, 2018
197
143
Landscape mode looks really stupid on TikTok and cell phones in the way they are generally used, so if you are shooting like that for those devices, please stop.
Yes by all means we should change the way humans work to match the technology rather than changing the technology to match the way humans work. Perhaps we can surgically move peoples eyes so they above and below each other. You field of view is ~2.35:1 so why would you want to view content 1:2? Your aware that you can turn a cell phone side ways right? And if all you are doing is watching content on your cell phone who even cares about picture quality because your never going to see it.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,376
358
I have the BMPCC 6K so I will take a swing at it.

The form factor for the C70 is mostly better. Because of the limitations of the BMPCC you have to do at least some rigging out in order to do any serious work. The first thing is the battery. I haven't even stopped to see how long I can shoot on the LP6N as the reviews were universally horrible so I went straight to a V mount.

The C70 has a flippy screen. It is so small as to be near useless but DPAF may be good enough to keep you from having to get an external monitor but I suspect if you are shooting outside you will need an external monitor. Depending on what you shoot you may not need a follow focus system for the C70, most people will atleast want one for the BMPCC.

Media is going to be a cost factor. BMD is miles ahead of every one else on this. I have a couple of 1TB T5s I swap out on the BMPCC and getting the data off the cards and into the computer is ridiculously easy. 2TB of cards for the C70 will probably cost more than the C70. The file size of BRAW is crazy small compared to even CLOG so you are going to be paying more for storage on your computer with the C70.

Dual phantom power mini XLRs on the C70 probably means you can leave the external recorder at home for interviews. The BMPCC has pretty good audio options as well but only a single mini XLR. I suspect the C70 doesn't support 32bit float and neither does the BMPCC but every cinema camera going forward should. Both support time code but the SDI on the C70 is more industry standard.

The Black Magic menus make Canons menus look like Sony's. They say the C70 has a new menu system, lets hope so but I suspect that just means they have added another green tab. The presets are awesome on the BMPCC but the physical buttons on the C70 are on a whole other level.

The built in ND filters on the C70 are huge. Add up the cost of a full set of NDs and possible a matte box for the BMPCC and you are talking real money.

The C70 will work much better on a gimbal. The form factor of the BMPCC is really bad for that.

Because of the RF mount the number of lenses you will be able to mount on the C70 will be considerably greater than what you can do with the BMPCC. The big one being PL mount where there are adapters for the the EF mount that the BMPCC 6K uses but they don't work with all PL mount lenses. Both cameras will use the IS in your lens if it has it. The C70 adds digital IS but I am not exactly thrilled with Canons digital IS on the R and usually turn it off. But in some cases it may mean not having to balance a gimbal or bust out the sticks.

Where the rubber meets the road is the sensor and I haven't shot on the C300 so I can't really compare but the difference in the sensor of the EOS R ( 5DIV sensor) vs the BMPCC was jaw dropping. If you deliver 2K the C70 will give you some extra room to straighten the horizon, crop etc. If you deliver in 4K then you will really miss the extra room you get from shooting 6K. It is hard to say what the situation will be with high frame rates on the C70.

So at the end of the day once you rig out the BMPCC you are getting pretty close to the price of the C70 if you don't need to rig the C70. I am guessing Smallrig and Tilta are going to make good money off people caging and rigging the C70s just not as much as they made with the BMPCC. The form factor of the C70 will be a lot less conspicuous than a fully rigged BMPCC so will draw a lot less attention from the camera cops. Do you need RAW and do you need a sensor greater than 4K? What are you shooting? If it is one man crew talking head or run and gun C70 is the likely answer. If you are shooting long form dramas the BMPCC.

If the C70 had been on the official Canon road map (snort) I probably wouldn't have jumped to Black Magic even though I am still harbouring a powerful hate for all the times Canon has F'd me over over the last few years. But now that I have moved over to Black Magic I am probably never coming back.

As for the Komodo yes you can buy it for a bit more than the C70. But you still need to rig out the Komodo and that will push it into another price bracket.
Thank you VERY much, this was exactly the type of response I was looking. for!!

Thank you, I have a lot of info to chew on....

I really DO want to shoot RAW, so, if nothing else, I'd have to take it on faith that the Canon C70 at some point in the future will get a firmware upgrade to shoot some form of RAW.

I wonder how long that will take...AND...is it something I want to bet serious $$$ on...or wait to buy to see what Canon says/does about RAW on this after hardware hits the public streets?

C

cayenne
 

Tugela

EOS R
Feb 12, 2014
873
23
Yes by all means we should change the way humans work to match the technology rather than changing the technology to match the way humans work. Perhaps we can surgically move peoples eyes so they above and below each other. You field of view is ~2.35:1 so why would you want to view content 1:2? Your aware that you can turn a cell phone side ways right? And if all you are doing is watching content on your cell phone who even cares about picture quality because your never going to see it.
People don't look at their cell phones sideways. If you are shooting content for cell phones, shoot it vertically.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scyrene

bgoyette

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Feb 6, 2015
111
55
Internal raw recording and full frame are what I wish for for their higher end. The speed booster is good but as a new canon shooter it’s not my intention to buy Ef lenses.
Yeah...but. For folks with cinema primes (me) ...or wanting a "full frame" look, and no crop from their EF glass (also me) it's a big deal. As for Raw...it's a "sort of high end" feature. Raw actually is a lot easier to process than a compressed codec, and the c200 has been sitting out there with internal RAW at the bottom of Canons cinema line for the past few years. As a C500II owner, I pretty much only shoot raw, so I'd be very interested in a version of this with cfexpress and CRL.. I really don't like the look of the compressed codecs.
 

xanbarksdale

Canon Collector
CR Pro
Jul 18, 2019
66
90
Kentucky
Has the ship date been posted anywhere? (sorry, I just skimmed through the 7 pages of comments)

I see that B&H says it will begin shipping in December, but I haven't found an exact date. I've got a project in Dec. that I'd LOVE to have this for!
 

jvillain

EOS 90D
Sep 29, 2018
197
143
People don't look at their cell phones sideways. If you are shooting content for cell phones, shoot it vertically.
You have to be at the national or international level before customers are going to pay for a separate cell phone shoot. If they want both formats in one shoot then you need to shoot the subject in a square box in the middle so it can be cropped both ways. That is dumbing down the art to the lowest common denominator. After you have done that you then have to down res the image to squeeze the cell phone crop into a few kilobytes so people don't blow out their data plans on their cell phones. So you don't need the extra resolution for the 1:2 crop becuase no one will ever be able to see the quality on a miniture little screen where they have turned the contrast turned up to 11 and the saturation maxed to make the phone look less like the garbage it is.

Where you need the extra resolution is on the large screens not the postage stamp screen. If you really cared about the resolution on the cell phone (and no customer does) this isn't the right camera for that. The BMPCC 6K, R5 or C5000III would all be better answers than this camera. But the real answer is the Ursa 12K @ 12,288 x 6480 as it gives you more than enough resolution to crop in both directions. The 12K would pay for the price difference in one shoot if you start counting the extra time spent doing a seperate shoot specifically for cell phones.
 

privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,130
3,294
120
Goodness. Stop living in the past. There really are no new “Dedicated” Photography cameras. I know it’s cool to rag on video guys because you don’t shoot video.

Every major DSLR/mirrorless is a hybrid camera if it wants to sell. From here on out people are going to buy “photography” cameras and shoot video on it. It is expected so. Canon knows this and intentionally marketed it that way.

Sensors , I/O , Heat management are the real separation points. Camera sales are going down because the line between cell phone HDR photos and mirrorless are so similar. It’s not a Canon vs Sony or any other brand, it’s the computational photography and auto HDR in an iPhone. It’s the weirdest thing seeing the photography crowd get upset by artists wanting more out of the tools when the video users make the cameras worth making as the camera companies.

It’s art and implement is only as creative as the users vision. Freedom to test the limits of your tool is a piece of the process. The best camera is the camera you have. Why nerf it.
Your reply bears no relation to my original comment and you are projecting meanings and feelings into it I didn't express and don't have.

I never argued for a 'dedicated' stills camera, heck even the 5DS does video, what I said was railing against a stills orientated camera, one that the design brief was to prioritize stills performance over video performance (not drop it completely), because it lacks video features you might want or feel it should have is kinda dumb.

The compromises were made intentionally to create the tool that it is, there are other tools with different compromises better suited to other users. All cameras shouldn't be interesting to all users, if they were then the compromises forced on users with envelope pushing needs is compromised. Look at medium format digital, pretty basic video, modest AF, but stills image quality to die for. By your logic all medium format cameras should prioritize video features in future iterations and compromise stills image quality because, well, that's where your reasoning falls down...

Yes way more people, both amateur users and pros with clients are using video in their stills orientated cameras (R5 vs C70 for example), but that doesn't mean the niche that prioritizes stills over video to a greater extent shouldn't get the cameras they want and need for their 'artistic vision'. And pointing out that this or that model is stills or video orientated shouldn't be an excuse to say somebody is "living in the past", maybe they are just living in a world where their stills output demands higher image quality than yours.
 

cayenne

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Mar 28, 2012
2,376
358
So, if you put a RF 50mm lens on a C70, with the smaller sensor, what will be the FF equivalent of the lens on the C70?

Is there a multiplication factor?
 

telemaque

Before Sunset
CR Pro
Nov 30, 2019
92
47
Our German neighbors seem to be the first to show some footage from the Canon C70.

It looks good, the skintone of the HLG profile not my favorite but the rest is very nice.