Could the 7D-iii be closer than we might think???

[ahsanford]

I think the big thing Nikon has done is the 200-500 F5.6 lens..... I see a LOT! of them out there..... far more than the Canon 100-400.... I can see Canon dealing with that problem before they replace the 7D2, a camera which is apparently still selling well.... but who knows, perhaps they will come out with a 7D3 and 200-600 F5.6 in time to deplete out wallets for Christmas....

But I do agree with Ahsanford, "they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share".

Agree that lens is a nontrivial threat to Canon business. The D500 + that $1,400 200-500 f/5.6 might have made a dent in Canon's sales if the 7D2 and 100-400 II didn't hit the market immediately ahead of them. by the time Nikon delivered those things, the reach-obsessed had already emptied their wallets on the 7D2 and the White Unicorn.

- A

 

[unfocused]

I think the big thing Nikon has done is the 200-500 F5.6 lens..... I see a LOT! of them out there..... far more than the Canon 100-400.... I can see Canon dealing with that problem before they replace the 7D2, a camera which is apparently still selling well.... but who knows, perhaps they will come out with a 7D3 and 200-600 F5.6 in time to deplete out wallets for Christmas....

But I do agree with Ahsanford, "they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share".

Agree that lens is a nontrivial threat to Canon business. The D500 + that $1,400 200-500 f/5.6 might have made a dent in Canon's sales if the 7D2 and 100-400 II didn't hit the market immediately ahead of them. by the time Nikon delivered those things, the reach-obsessed had already emptied their wallets on the 7D2 and the White Unicorn.

- A

I believe that's the main reason why Canon is adding multiple f8 autofocus points to their cameras. The quality of the 100-400 "L" with the 1.4 converter is better and slightly longer and while the 1 stop difference is not insignificant, it is not insurmountable either.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

7D3 needs to get in line behind a couple big brothers

+1

I am sure that the 7D3 is well into the prototype stage and early testing, but it is a safe bet that the 5D4 and 6D2 are even further along and we will not see a 7D3 until those two cameras are out on store shelves.....

I doubt that the 7D MK III is more than just a listing of goals for features and performance at this stage. A prototype would imply that they have all that stuff ironed out. I'd expect a new sensor, not a 80D sensor. Sensors do take a long time to develop. Canon may be considering Sony sensors, but may be shy of them if Sony Fabs are all in earthquake prone areas.

As sales of cameras wind down, more and more parts sharing between manufacturers is going to happen. There is a lot now, but we may see more. I keep expecting Samsung sensors to start making them for Canon. You can bet that its been discussed.

 

[ahsanford]

7D3 needs to get in line behind a couple big brothers

+1

I am sure that the 7D3 is well into the prototype stage and early testing, but it is a safe bet that the 5D4 and 6D2 are even further along and we will not see a 7D3 until those two cameras are out on store shelves.....

I doubt that the 7D MK III is more than just a listing of goals for features and performance at this stage. A prototype would imply that they have all that stuff ironed out. I'd expect a new sensor, not a 80D sensor. Sensors do take a long time to develop. Canon may be considering Sony sensors, but may be shy of them if Sony Fabs are all in earthquake prone areas.

As sales of cameras wind down, more and more parts sharing between manufacturers is going to happen. There is a lot now, but we may see more. I keep expecting Samsung sensors to start making them for Canon. You can bet that its been discussed.

I have seen so many threads on "Put the 80D sensor in the next 7D or EOS-M!" / "Make a 6D2 a FF version of the 80D!"

Canon hasn't repurposed sensors so flagrantly (even if it's a great sensor) since the Rebel days. Expect different sensors in new rigs, but we should expect whatever it is to perform well. The 80D is simply the first on-chip ADC we've seen from Canon in an SLR, correct? Surely others will follow.

Or, to put it in 7D3 terms: ask the 7D2 camp if they want 24 MP x 10 fps or 20 MP x 12 fps. They'll take +2 fps every day of the week, and Canon knows that. That translates to the 7D3 getting a new sensor.

- A

 

[unfocused]

...to put it in 7D3 terms: ask the 7D2 camp if they want 24 MP x 10 fps or 20 MP x 12 fps. They'll take +2 fps every day of the week, and Canon knows that. That translates to the 7D3 getting a new sensor.

I vote 20 mp even if it stays at 10 fps. I want every bit of high ISO performance that comes with bigger pixels. In addition, the longer it takes, the better the camera will be, so I'd rather they not rush things.

 

[ahsanford]

...to put it in 7D3 terms: ask the 7D2 camp if they want 24 MP x 10 fps or 20 MP x 12 fps. They'll take +2 fps every day of the week, and Canon knows that. That translates to the 7D3 getting a new sensor.

I vote 20 mp even if it stays at 10 fps. I want every bit of high ISO performance that comes with bigger pixels. In addition, the longer it takes, the better the camera will be, so I'd rather they not rush things.

Of course. Some folks just don't get that, and much like a push for the 5D4 to have a jillion MP 'because it's a higher-end / pricier rig', people want the 7D2 to have the best of everything in a crop sensor which isn't possible, especially on a 5 year refresh cycle. I see the XXD line carrying the higher MP torch for crop while the 7D line focuses on higher ISO, higher framerates, etc.

- A

 

[3kramd5]

Could the 7D-iii be closer than we might think???

Yes, it COULD be closer than we MIGHT think.

Double subjective language makes for an easy bar ;P

 

[LoneRider]

To answer a bunch of the comments about time frames and market conditions.

My speculation is completely centred around the notion that upgrading a product, in this case 7D-iii, means creating a business case. And that business case would be centered around how much money spent versus incremental revenue over the projected lifespan.

So, the fact they are already providing noticeable discounts on the 7D-ii suggests sales are slowing down, so, it would make sense there is an incremental revenue to be had! But is it worth spending the money now on an newer revision of the product.

If you stick with 20.2MP, and a significant chunk of the enclosure, and bulk of the changes to the firmware of the 1DX-ii, you have a significant chunk of the product development done.

So what is left, do you migrate to a better AF, or is the existing 7D-ii good enough? Add on-die ADC, new PCB boards, and touchscreen and maybe CFast slot.

If all of my thoughts are true, and, in fact, the 7D-ii industrial design is good enough, and I've yet to hear of any complaints about the buttons and such, there really, in the grand scheme of things, is very little in coming out with a 7D-iii.

The only real risk, is pushing out the schedule of the 5D-iv and DPAF EOS-M cameras. I think there is going to be enough time between the 5D-iv and the 6D-ii that there is no risk in the 6D-ii release date.

Just as Ford has the Ford GT and F150 Raptor as flagship vehicles, Canon needs the 1DX and 7D cameras to be perceived as flagships. Right now, the 7D-ii is failing Canon. And as the market is getting more competitive, Canon needs to ensure their position as a leader is secure.

Further, they've had some long runs without upgrades. They got the technology (DPAF, and on-die ADC) working well, on both APS-C and FF, they need to secure their new found prowess, and show Canon is willing to move fast when conditions allow. Thus allowing the 7D-ii to lounge around does not do that. Even if they don't think they are going to get a lot of 7D-ii to 7D-iii converts, they will at least be able to restore the price of the 7D-iii. IMNSHO they need to get on-die ADC and a solid 4K-60fps on their flagship APS-C camera ASAP. And they have all of the building blocks at hand to do so, and to do so with very little R&D.

 

[Don Haines]

I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....

A megapixel or two won't cut it.... another stop of ISO won't cut it..... another FPS won't cut it.....

I hope they are ready to really shake up the market.... Take a 7D2 sized body and solidity of build, slap on the WiFi and touchscreen they should have put on the 7D2, and go mirrorless with a vengeance.... 60FPS burst rate into a large buffer, sensor-shift, 4K video, and a 200-600F6.3 to go with it and make those Nikon people regret getting their 200-500 lens.....

 

[j-nord]

I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....

A megapixel or two won't cut it.... another stop of ISO won't cut it..... another FPS won't cut it.....

I hope they are ready to really shake up the market.... Take a 7D2 sized body and solidity of build, slap on the WiFi and touchscreen they should have put on the 7D2, and go mirrorless with a vengeance.... 60FPS burst rate into a large buffer, sensor-shift, 4K video, and a 200-600F6.3 to go with it and make those Nikon people regret getting their 200-500 lens.....

200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6.

80D level DR and ISO performance + 24 m-pix and I'd definitely pick up a 7Diii. I've held off on the 7Dii because I know the sensor won't satisfy me for a body that will likely only be used in the ISO 800-3200 range.

 

[Don Haines]

200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6.

It is unlikely, yet it isn't..... The new cameras seem to handle F8 and there is no reason why the lens can not "stretch the truth" when it talks to the camera body, just like Tamron and Sigma do when you put one of those 150-600mm lenses onto your camera...

 

[LoneRider]

I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....

A megapixel or two won't cut it.... another stop of ISO won't cut it..... another FPS won't cut it.....

I hope they are ready to really shake up the market.... Take a 7D2 sized body and solidity of build, slap on the WiFi and touchscreen they should have put on the 7D2, and go mirrorless with a vengeance.... 60FPS burst rate into a large buffer, sensor-shift, 4K video, and a 200-600F6.3 to go with it and make those Nikon people regret getting their 200-500 lens.....

200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6.

80D level DR and ISO performance + 24 m-pix and I'd definitely pick up a 7Diii. I've held off on the 7Dii because I know the sensor won't satisfy me for a body that will likely only be used in the ISO 800-3200 range.

I agree, what I am suggesting would not get a lot of 7D-ii converts, but would get 7D owners to pull out their bank cards. 20.2MP is fine by me, and if they can get a at least a couple of stops of DR out of the 20.2MP over the 7D-ii, then at 10FPS it would be great for sports. And I might be tempted to get a 6D-ii for landscapes

And yeah, getting WIFI under the hood of the 7D-iii would also be cool.

 

[slclick]

I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....

A megapixel or two won't cut it.... another stop of ISO won't cut it..... another FPS won't cut it.....

I hope they are ready to really shake up the market.... Take a 7D2 sized body and solidity of build, slap on the WiFi and touchscreen they should have put on the 7D2, and go mirrorless with a vengeance.... 60FPS burst rate into a large buffer, sensor-shift, 4K video, and a 200-600F6.3 to go with it and make those Nikon people regret getting their 200-500 lens.....

200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6.

80D level DR and ISO performance + 24 m-pix and I'd definitely pick up a 7Diii. I've held off on the 7Dii because I know the sensor won't satisfy me for a body that will likely only be used in the ISO 800-3200 range.

I agree, what I am suggesting would not get a lot of 7D-ii converts, but would get 7D owners to pull out their bank cards. 20.2MP is fine by me, and if they can get a at least a couple of stops of DR out of the 20.2MP over the 7D-ii, then at 10FPS it would be great for sports. And I might be tempted to get a 6D-ii for landscapes

And yeah, getting WIFI under the hood of the 7D-iii would also be cool.

Which is somewhat parallel to the commonly held thought of more 6D users upgrading to the 5D4 and not many 5D3 users.

 

[ahsanford]

Which is somewhat parallel to the commonly held thought of more 6D users upgrading to the 5D4 and not many 5D3 users.

Based on the specs we've seen, I 100% agree. It looks like a nice [pick a small number, say 10-20%] improvement across the board over my 5D3, but I don't need a jillion f/8 teleconverter points, 4K video, or a +2 fps, so I'd likely pass on it.

But I'd expect long time 5D2 holdouts and 6D folks stepping up to a nicer rig would come running for it. We'll see.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

Which is somewhat parallel to the commonly held thought of more 6D users upgrading to the 5D4 and not many 5D3 users.

agreed!
If you are going to upgrade, make it worthwhile... go several steps newer in your product line or jump up to the next (or more) line....

 

[AlanF]

I just don't see the market leader (from a sales perspective) give a rat's ass about what Nikon is up to until they start losing market share. As well spec'd as the D500 is, I'm not convinced it's going to steal sales as dramatically as the various forum's denizens predict. I think Nikon's birders rejoiced and bought a bunch of D500s, but the hard slog is soon to be upon them -- we'll see how well a spec-based hard sell works in flipping Canon users or upcharging the Rebel/D5500 crowd in search of their next rig. Canon's really good at holding its customers through other means -- lens portfolio, service, reliability, 3rd party accessory ecosystem, etc.

So I think Canon will stick with its 'slow' 4-ish year refresh cycles on the major lines (1D, 5D, 7D, etc.). The rollout of those three brands -- and let's throw in the 6D and make it a fourth -- takes up about 18-24 months of 'air time' between the announcements, promotional materials, pre-orders, initial reviews and launch. The remainder of that 4-ish year cycle is a chance for Canon to course-correct / fill specific gaps (5DS line), update other product lines (Cinema, 80D, EOS-M, etc.), and most importantly, innovate with new product lines (XC10, perhaps dedicated drone rigs, FF mirrorless, etc.).

I think Canon is as predictable as the mailman's route through your neighborhood, but it is working for them, and they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share.

- A

I think the big thing Nikon has done is the 200-500 F5.6 lens..... I see a LOT! of them out there..... far more than the Canon 100-400.... I can see Canon dealing with that problem before they replace the 7D2, a camera which is apparently still selling well.... but who knows, perhaps they will come out with a 7D3 and 200-600 F5.6 in time to deplete out wallets for Christmas....

But I do agree with Ahsanford, "they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share".

I now see many 100-400mm IIs, but very few Nikon 200-500mm in the UK. There are also problems with the 200-500mms. A testing website tried 5 of them and two were duds. Earlier this month on Fraser's Hill in Malaysia, I met a bird guide with one who said his was soft above 350mm and he was regretting selling his 80-400mm and would be having to buy one again.

 

[AlanF]

Now I have gone over to a camera without a low-pass filter, the 5DS R, I am never going back to a 7D or other APS-C with a filter as it softens the image, and Moiré is very rare problem.

 

[AlanF]

Now I have gone over to a camera without a low-pass filter, the 5DS R, I am never going back to a 7D or other APS-C with a filter as it softens the image, and Moiré is very rare problem.

I hope you put on asbestos clothing before you posted that because the collective wisdom of CR is that the low pass filter is absolutely necessary and that moire ruins everything.

My experience of CR is that its members listen to comments from those who do not have the reputation of BSing.

 

[TeT]

no chance on quick 7DIII...

Only thing they do quick upgrades on is the TXi series, T7i/T7s should be due out any day now...

 

[tomscott]

Am i the only one that think the 7DMKII is an awesome camera? Makes my 5DMKIII feel really quite old...

There are still a few features the 7DMKII is better than the 80D AF being one of them. IMO it barely ever misses and with a firmware upgrade is it possible for a few more F8 AF points? Cant see why they wouldn't?

Every review I've read of the 80D vs the 7DMKII the 7DMKII is much better for tracking and the F8 focus is slower than the 7DMKII too... for a little bit of DR... The 7DMKII is still a beast IMO.

I spent 2 months across Africa and 2 months across south east asia with the 7DMKII shooting 20,000 images with just this body not including my 5DMKIII on the search for wildlife. Really difficult environments like Bwindi rainforest in Uganda following the mountain gorillas and Bukit Lawang on the trail of the Orangutans (to name a few) shooting mostly 6400 ISO with the 100-400mm MKII

These images are from Facebook so are compressed unfortunately but still look fantastic imo.

If you don't think the 7DMKII is capable you need to get out and shoot with one, a camera is more than its spec sheet. I love mine its extremely dependable when you need it.