CR Rates The Product Announcements Part 1

[davidjoseph]

Save a few bits and pieces I think the vast majority of people need to catch up to the equipment skills wise ..unless there is some ground shaking breakthrough in technology what needs to be updated.. very little. Personally im glad i get another year out of my gear before the gear heads look at me working and tell me Im using an old camera. Thats of course before they realize my medium and large format gear is film ;D

 

[davidpeter]

I could not find the reply button, so read my opinion as it is:

A have been waiting for a 5D mkIII for half a year, and I would wait another half, if i knew that it will defenetly come and shine like Nikon D700. However, if i still won't have a clue after Photokina, i get the D700 and abandon this sinking ship.

Sorry guys, put I need good ISO and great AF for low light indoor sports, and the 5D mkII just won't cut that. Nor the 7D with its overpixeled poor sensor...

 

[Mark D5 TEAM II]

I do hope that there is another new body to be announced in the next few days. If it won't be a 1Ds MkIV (CR2 rumor) or a 2000D (unneeded, just lower the price of the 500D and 550D since the 60D is DOA unless it gets a price-cut ASAP), I pray it would be a 5D2n, nothing radical needs to be changed, just add all the 7D refinements.

 

[tzalmagor]

The oldest lenses not yet upgraded are:

* The wide primes, which Canon is evidently killing.

* Cheap-o primes for which a better replacement already exists, e.g. the 75-300 is still produced in face of the availability of the 70-300 & 70-300 L.

* The EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM from 2002, MP-E 65mm f/2.8 Macro from 1999, and the EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM from 1998.


I don't see Canon going for a new-lenses-free-year, so I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

 

[ELK]

I do hope that there is another new body to be announced in the next few days. If it won't be a 1Ds MkIV (CR2 rumor) or a 2000D (unneeded, just lower the price of the 500D and 550D since the 60D is DOA unless it gets a price-cut ASAP), I pray it would be a 5D2n, nothing radical needs to be changed, just add all the 7D refinements.

Very reasonable statements. Unfortunately though it's extremely rare that the manufacturers make new products basing on common sense (from our point of view). Reality is that these are products for masses and the task of manufacturer is to make and sell products that attract all potential segments of customers, which have only one thing in common - psychological limits/ranges where they are ready to pay. For example 1 segment is, say, below $500, next is between $500 and $800, then $800-$1000 and so on.
This segmentation is the first enemy of common sense and unfortunately it looks like Canon concentrates on segmentation games more than on R&D and serious photographers' needs.
Someone already mentioned that Nikon currently tries to put as much as possible into a product in given price range, and Canon tries to put as less as possible... The recent cameras are good proof of it.

 

[awinphoto]

While I can definitely understand the apparent let down from the 60D and some of Canon's decisions, but reading these replies, it makes me think that we've somehow gotten spoiled with all these cameras and trumped up expectations. Seriously, my first camera I bought with my own money was the old school film rebel... It had a blazing 3 AF points and shot single shot mode. It was one hell of a camera at the time... And then when I moved into the digital arena, I used D60's from my college until the fabled 10D came out... shoot... what did that have? 5 or 7 AF points... Beated the hell out of MF everything... Oh yeah it shoot at a brisk 3 frames a second... and we thought that was fast... Guess how much i paid for that dino? Out the door with battery grip cost me over $1600 on my credit card. Back then people were grumbling that 6MP was not big enough and that digital equivalent to film was over 20MP and that without a significant improvement in MP, digital would just be a fad for people too cheap to buy film. Now people are grumbling because we have 18MP sensors and are "too big" and that they aren't shooting at 10 frames a second and dont have 45 AF points, and doesn't have this screen or or that flash triggering, blah blah blah... While in disclosure I do have a 7D and love it and it has paid for itself and then some, I think that cameras, as another poster stated, has gone beyond many peoples technical capabilities and if we all learn to make the most of what we got and stop griping the canon and nikon that you NEEED this feature and that feature but instead focus on the basics and improve quality, you will start seeing fewer cameras released but more substantive and impressive improvements...

 

[J]

if I'm not mistaken, 40D and 50D is exactly 1 year, while 50D and 60D is 2 years. they can randomly release a camera base on needs I think.

I actually think the 50D was rushed a bit so the design resources could contribute to the 7D. But I think it's worth remembering that at the time of the 50D's release, it too received a rather lackluster reaction. The only real additions were more MP and AF adjustment for several hundred dollars more. Everything else was basically the same.

Maybe the 60D will only last a year until the 70D. I think that's slightly more likely with the D7000 out there, but far from a done deal. I do expect the 60D to sell decently well anyway, especially if they cut $100 to respond to the D7000. $999 is kind of a magic number as prices go, after all. Even more so if they put in AF MA as a firmware upgrade.

I think it's rather funny that Canon was forced to reprice the 50D significantly during the D90's time and that they are repeating history in the next generation. I'm not quite sure what they were going for in designing the 60D to kill the D5000 and D90, as if Nikon wasn't going to update them...

I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but everybody has thought this (including me) every year for the past few years...

 

[awinphoto]

if I'm not mistaken, 40D and 50D is exactly 1 year, while 50D and 60D is 2 years. they can randomly release a camera base on needs I think.

I actually think the 50D was rushed a bit so the design resources could contribute to the 7D. But I think it's worth remembering that at the time of the 50D's release, it too received a rather lackluster reaction. The only real additions were more MP and AF adjustment for several hundred dollars more. Everything else was basically the same.

Maybe the 60D will only last a year until the 70D. I think that's slightly more likely with the D7000 out there, but far from a done deal. I do expect the 60D to sell decently well anyway, especially if they cut $100 to respond to the D7000. $999 is kind of a magic number as prices go, after all. Even more so if they put in AF MA as a firmware upgrade.

I think it's rather funny that Canon was forced to reprice the 50D significantly during the D90's time and that they are repeating history in the next generation. I'm not quite sure what they were going for in designing the 60D to kill the D5000 and D90, as if Nikon wasn't going to update them...

I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but everybody has thought this (including me) every year for the past few years...

If i'm not mistaken, if i remember right when the 40D came out people were upset that the D300 had a better AF and more MP than the 40D, and grumbles were so loud that Canon basically rushed the 50D to shut up the outcry about the 300D with a HD screen, all 9 cross type AF sensors, and more MP... who says Canon doesn't listen to the clients...

Then people complained... more MP isn't as good as we thought it would be, even though it has more cross type sensors than the 300D, it's still a lower number, and on and on and on... now in hindsight people are starting to think that was a good camera compared to the 60D... cant please everyone...

Bout the len... what about the 50mm 1.4... been hearing for years that'll get replaced and yet nothing... if i kept waiting for a replacement I wouldn't have my 50mm 1.4 in my bag like I do now... Instead of grumbling about the lenses out there, enjoy them... remember Canon's lens lineup is still the envy of many nikon fanboys...

 

[J]

If i'm not mistaken, if i remember right when the 40D came out people were upset that the D300 had a better AF and more MP than the 40D, and grumbles were so loud that Canon basically rushed the 50D to shut up the outcry about the 300D with a HD screen, all 9 cross type AF sensors, and more MP... who says Canon doesn't listen to the clients...

Nitpick: the 40D already had all cross sensors. The 50D did not change the number or type.

Well, I think a lot of old-timer xxD users would say that there haven't been much in the way of significant changes in their preferred line. 40D similar to 30D, 50D similar to 40D and now 60D dumbed down from 50D. I guess none of them were really hailed as great during their time.

I dunno. Read new xxD specs and you feel worse as you go on. Read new prosumer Nikon specs and feel better as you go on. That's just my take on how the companies managed expectations for this market space.

 

[awinphoto]

If i'm not mistaken, if i remember right when the 40D came out people were upset that the D300 had a better AF and more MP than the 40D, and grumbles were so loud that Canon basically rushed the 50D to shut up the outcry about the 300D with a HD screen, all 9 cross type AF sensors, and more MP... who says Canon doesn't listen to the clients...

Nitpick: the 40D already had all cross sensors. The 50D did not change the number or type.

Well, I think a lot of old-timer xxD users would say that there haven't been much in the way of significant changes in their preferred line. 40D similar to 30D, 50D similar to 40D and now 60D dumbed down from 50D. I guess none of them were really hailed as great during their time.

I dunno. Read new xxD specs and you feel worse as you go on. Read new prosumer Nikon specs and feel better as you go on. That's just my take on how the companies managed expectations for this market space.

My bad if i was mistaken about the cross types on the 40D, I went from the 30D to 50D to 7D... So never had that camera but that was what I remembered... Anywho...

In some regard, you can call me an old timer xxD user if you wish... doesn't bother me any... but it just seems that many photographers, especially newer photographers, are losing the discipline and skill photographers used to NEED to do photography. When u were shooting film, if you over exposed or under exposed, you were screwed... wasted time and money. If it was close maybe you could compensate in printing, but you had to nail exposure, you had to nail focus, you had to get it right in camera. If you really knew what you were doing you could do zone photography to get bad ass stuff, but there were a certain skill set required to be a photographer... Now, just about anyone could pick up a DSLR and say they were a photographer... then complain about lack of complete AF, or AF during video, or AUTO ISO, or MP et al. It seems a lot of people expect the camera to do their job for them instead of the photographer CREATING the image. Remember folks... what is the medium of photography? It isn't the camera... it is light. So stop making the medium and your entire focus about the camera... all it was intended to be was a capturing/recording device.

 

[pedro]

Remember folks... what is the medium of photography? It isn't the camera... it is light. So stop making the medium and your entire focus about the camera... all it was intended to be was a capturing/recording device.
[/quote]

You seem to read the thoughts of my heart. I am currently using an EOS 30D as a happy amateur. And whenever I miss something it is light....And yes, to do high ISO low light shots with a little less noise I am looking forward to purchase the next 5D body once it's out for quite a while...meanwhile...doin' the best I can. And yes: correct exposure in my Contax 139 Quartz days some 25 years ago...was THE issue. You nailed it or you blew it. There was nothing in between ;-)

 

[Peerke]

Remember folks... what is the medium of photography? It isn't the camera... it is light. So stop making the medium and your entire focus about the camera... all it was intended to be was a capturing/recording device.

You seem to read the thoughts of my heart. I am currently using an EOS 30D as a happy amateur. And whenever I miss something it is light....And yes, to do high ISO low light shots with a little less noise I am looking forward to purchase the next 5D body once it's out for quite a while...meanwhile...doin' the best I can. And yes: correct exposure in my Contax 139 Quartz days some 25 years ago...was THE issue. You nailed it or you blew it. There was nothing in between ;-)[/quote]

Exactly. Thats why I would love to see a low noise performer on FF without all the bells and wistles some folks believe are necessary to create a descent picture. Reading comments on what kind of technology should be in a new camera, one starts wondering how the stunning pictures were created before the digitl era.

I know the 5DII would come close to what I need, but I would like to see less MP (lets say around 15 MP) and latest sensor technology.

Always nice to dream.

 

[tzalmagor]

I think it's a reasonable bet that Canon will update the EF 24-70mm and the EF 100-400mm next year.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but everybody has thought this (including me) every year for the past few years...

If everybody thought this, and I didn't, then I must be nobody :'(

I failed the prophecy exams, so I'll have to admit I could very well be wrong, but my two cents are on those two lenses being next in line for upgrades.

 

[awinphoto]

I'm glad my words have resonated with a few here... While I'm not against innovation and these new features and things like HD video has been taken well with many of my clients and have given me a new skill set and allowed new products to offer my clients, these extra things (AF points, Video, Horizon Level, FPS, MP) are here to enhance our capabilities as photographers. Seriously though, if you cannot get the shot you were seeking with 9 focus points, what makes you think you would have made it with 19 or 45? I would have loved to ask Annie Leibovitz how many AF points she had when she photographed John Lennon... Or all the National Geographic photogs how often they really use AF or their opinions of the needs of horizon levels or GPS as many have suggested. I would like to see the 5D series to move up to about 24MP or so just to get to the max resolution a 35mm film could produce so the conversion to digital wasn't all lost and downgraded to what film had to offer back in the day... If you dont want to use all 24MP... then you dont have to use it all, but that way it is no worse than what photos had to work with when we were shooting velvia ISO 50 slide film... I would also like to see the 1Ds series move up to challenge more of a medium format class even if that means inventing more lenses to accommodate. It was designed to be the flagship and designed to be the best quality studio camera... back in the day, studio photogs rarely used 35mm... they used medium format... 645, 6x7, and even 4x5 if they knew what they were doing... There is no reason they couldn't at least give us a square sensor to get close... In my feeble mind, that would be the flagship... not a glorified 5D with a built in battery grip and trumped up AF. Once they get to that level, then the rest would be gravy...