Dissuade me to get a Rolleiflex

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Grumbaki

Nov 2, 2012
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Chengdu - China
#1
Went to my usual shop today for some CF cards.

Since my last visit a Rolleiflex popped up in their Vintage section. 2.8F, visually and optically mint. Asking price of 2300 USD (in local currency). Can probably be bargained down quite a bit (around 10% would be a reasonnable aime just for principles).

Just one comment....now THAT is a viewfinder!!! Why the hell does no company keep making this kind of camera??? The form factor is truly excellent!

I was so troubled that I forgot to ask for the accessories accompanying it and got the wrong serial number (taking lens not camera). I was in a rush to get my bank card away.

Anyone to dissuade me? Or will there be some GAS propaganda?
 
#3
tolusina said:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0&_nkw=Rolleiflex&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Click to expand...

Thanks but it's a bit "apple and oranges". Outside of cosmetics, 2.8F with Planar (models 1 to 3) are the pinacle of the form factor. Plus you add the condition (we are talking 40 to 50 years old stuff here) and the choice is much narrower adn the prices much higher (I guess that was your point?).

Example: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=Rolleiflex&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.XRolleiflex+2.8F&_nkw=Rolleiflex+2.8F&_sacat=0
 
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#5
Grumbaki said:
tolusina said:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0&_nkw=Rolleiflex&_sacat=0&_from=R40
Click to expand...

Thanks but it's a bit "apple and oranges".
Click to expand...

Because this is not a Canon item I'll give some context: 2.8F Planar in B condition go for 1.6k+, A is generally between 2.2 and 2.5K, truly mint or special serial numbers go for 3K+. Yeah I know I can get a Lubitel replica for 50$ to satisfy my point about the form factor...but that's kinda not the point. Been there done that. Lubitels are pedal cars where Rollei's are Rolls Royce.

Sporgon said:
Bet you never use it ;)
Click to expand...
I have shoot roughly 50 rolls on a Lubi replica. But the things is so random and poorly manufactured that this is just for fun. But the way to shoot is addictive.
 
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#6
Grumbaki said:
....Thanks but it's a bit "apple and oranges". ........(I guess that was your point?)....
Click to expand...

My only point was to point out the wide price range for Rolleis.
---
I'd love to have my Grandfather's Rollei, both as a photography relic and as a family heirloom. Grew up near Grandma & Grandpa's place, clearly recall his darkroom, also recall never learning anything about photography from him, I had no interest back then. I do think I caught a spark that smouldered a few decades. His photos have become family treasures, there's one on my mantle, a couple on my phone.
Otherwise, I've no interest in any other Rollei.
If Cousin Ted were to send Grandpa's Rollei my way, I'd probably run a roll through it just to do it, after that, it'd sit on display on the mantle with Dad's AE-1 and Grandpa's self portrait. For that sort of use, the price you found is way high for my tastes.

You obviously have different interests, maybe you'll load it and work it, maybe you collect pristine artifacts. If so, the price you've found seems reasonable. All good.

Conversely, you might be a more casual sort of collector where the object itself and what it represents is most important to you, it's condition and serviceability less so. If that is the case, I thought the prices shown on the ebay link might be of interest.

Absolutely nothing else was expressed or implied by my post above, I hope no offense was taken.
I can barely make my own value judgements sometimes, I'm sure not qualified to judge your values.




.
 
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#7
Grumbaki said:
Sporgon said:
Bet you never use it ;)
Click to expand...
I have shoot roughly 50 rolls on a Lubi replica. But the things is so random and poorly manufactured that this is just for fun. But the way to shoot is addictive.
Click to expand...

You did say 'dissuade me' !

~My Grandfather used a Rolleiflex in the '30s and '40s, a 'Standard' I think, and I still have the remarkable pictures that he took in the English Lake District - among others - on colour transparency. Very rare in 1936.

Mint f2.8 versions do seem to go for very high prices. If it's your thing; great. Personally I miss film like a hole in the head.
 
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#8
Sporgon said:
Grumbaki said:
Sporgon said:
Bet you never use it ;)
Click to expand...
I have shoot roughly 50 rolls on a Lubi replica. But the things is so random and poorly manufactured that this is just for fun. But the way to shoot is addictive.
Click to expand...

You did say 'dissuade me' !

~My Grandfather used a Rolleiflex in the '30s and '40s, a 'Standard' I think, and I still have the remarkable pictures that he took in the English Lake District - among others - on colour transparency. Very rare in 1936.

Mint f2.8 versions do seem to go for very high prices. If it's your thing; great. Personally I miss film like a hole in the head.
Click to expand...
My Rolle has been sitting on a shelf gathering dust for at least 10 years...
 
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#9
@Tolusina: No worries. It's true that if I hadn't make my homework, Rolleis are a field for rip off due to the wide range of price. Sweet story about the grandpa!

@Sporgon: Yeah and I still say it because that's not really a useful expense but, as I can afford it, I struggle with a bad GAS.

@Don: Nice attempt. Time is actually my biggest constraint. Need to work quite a few hours to afford that beauty...
 
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#11
unfocused said:
Sporgon said:
Personally I miss film like a hole in the head.
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly. I find that it's much easier to be nostalgic about an era if you didn't actually have to live through it.
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;D

Perhaps, but I still love steam locomotives ! ;)

(But actually I didn't really live through that era !)
 
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#12
Dear Grumbaki: You've not really said why you might want this camera, but you did ask us to dissuade you.

Since I don't know why you want the camera or what you want to do with it, I'll just ask you: What else could you do with $2300?

I can think of a lot of things but only you can say whether that $2300 is better spent on something else.

Another way to think about it is: What aren't you going to be able to do if you spend $2300 on this particular camera?

Hope this helps!

Vivid
 
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#13
Vivid Color said:
Dear Grumbaki: You've not really said why you might want this camera, but you did ask us to dissuade you.

Since I don't know why you want the camera or what you want to do with it, I'll just ask you: What else could you do with $2300?

Another way to think about it is: What aren't you going to be able to do if you spend $2300 on this particular camera?
Click to expand...

Dear Vivid, your first question is one of the good point in the con side. That amount can be spend on a trip with my modern gear. I'm Lucky (and working my ass off) enough so that the second one is not that relevant. But yeah, 2300 could be used up for something else...but not in the bank.

As to the why this camera:
- I really love the "whole format", the "belly shooting".
- Film can be a pain but the restraint it imposes usually make me a better photographer. I think I already posted about my outings with a 1Gb CF (13 exposures on a 5d3 shooting full raw) and the lcd blackened out to emulate the case.
- Native Square. Personnal taste for compositon.
- It's not like there is an option for medium format shooting around 2k USD. Replicas are generally toys in term of output. This one (and the Hassels like 500C I had the chance to try out...but Im more a TLR guy) have very good outputs even in our digital area. Those modern medium format are, to my knowledge, the only option for belly shooting and they are around what? 10K?
- Except if I truly mishandle it, there is little chance of loosing much value if I purchase smartly. This is not an investment but not a perishable item like our dslr.
- Pure admiration for engineering/craftmanship. That point is kinda moot but that stuff is a piece of beauty like watches or old cars can be. I mean... hand polished lenses...!
- Ice breaker. That's mentionned in every review and I could notice it with the Hasselblad. Poeple are weary of DSLR but they are drawn to those pieces of curio or nostalgia. (except the unavoidable grumpy photog that think you should leave it in a museum).

Writing all those explanations doesnt really help as your point and the fact that I don't have much time to shoot are the only 2 points on the con side.

Any debunking of my pros? :P

(I know this is a weird GAS thread...thanks for the answers!)
 
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#14
Grumbaki said:
- I really love the "whole format", the "belly shooting".
Click to expand...
Just pick up a nice Mamiya RB67 or RZ67. A fraction of the cost, and you can even buy new / near new lenses and accessories. Much more functional and practical. You can even add a medium format digital back to them and have the best of both worlds.
 
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#15
If you enjoy TLRs and their way of shooting, by all means go for it. Since US$ 2k is a lot of money and can get you a wide range of very decent analog gear, I recommend you do some price shopping (look at keh and adorama), and maybe investigate the merits of possible alternatives, just to be sure.

Once you make the Lubitel-->Rollei upgrade, you may need some extra things that help you get optimal results: a decent exposure meter, a sturdy tripod and cable release, and ideally some equipment for processing exposed films yourself. Maybe check out whether there is a dark room available nearby wherever you live.

Even if some people here seem to hate film, the results will speak for themselves.
 
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#16
i sorta get it. this past winter i refurbed a polaroid 180 so that i can shoot with it for fun. for me, polaroid pack film captures the "magical" experience of film photography without the hassles of roll film.

i also picked up a mint condition Kodak Stereo camera and a vintage 1904 stereo viewer this past winter. ran a test roll through it and printed up some test prints for viewing. had tons of fun doing it but still need to tweak the process a bit to refine the results.

i lived through the film days and understand the tedium, cost, and anxiety over potentially screwing up an irreplaceable photo moment....but there is something that goes a bit beyond nostalgia when using vintage gear. i simply love photography, in all its forms, and using different processes is a way to further enjoy photographing as it changes the experience slightly.

changing the way i think, the way i work, and the way i see are all ways of refreshing photography for me. i find quite a bit of tedium in digital photography through my jobs so revisiting historical tools and techniques is somewhat of a release. i find it is a similar experience to using a particular lens alot and getting sick of it, then buying a new lens and falling in love with how it changes the way you see things.

would i spend 2300.00 on a rollie? no. but i cant really judge the OP since every time i consider selling my Hassi i come up with enough reason not to do it.
 
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#18
Hi Grumbaki,

My guess is that answers to your question will change accordingly to the forum it is posted on. Try to write the same question on APUG or Manual photography forums and you will probably buy two of these. People here are more into practical photography and 2300$ could buy some nice new and shiny lens with a red ring around it. And they will be as right as you'll be if you buy the Flex. The question is what will bring YOU more joy??? Only you can answer it.

I'm kinda in the same pot (well more or less. My budget is a bit more modest, like Lubitel modest). I am new to any kind of photography (2 years with my 60D). In recent months I've started to have interest in vintage cameras and film photography. Why? No idea. I'm a child of the digital era so no "nostalgic GAS" here. It started with buying some vintage manual M42 glass to save some money. One of them came with a battered, broken light meter, Spotmatic SPII attached to. I thought: "why not to run a film through it and see how was it done in the old times. Moreover, it is the real Full Frame". Long story short, now I have about 10 different vintage cameras and I stopped counting the lenses. I developed my first B&W film last week and will try to digitize it soon, I am in the middle of my first cheap medium format film shot on my dirt cheap 1950 Agfa IsolaII and looking into buying Kiev-60TTL. Of-course I could have spent this money on my digital stuff, but would I enjoy the same? Will every good picture feel as special as the ones I get from time to time on film? So again, it is a VERY subjective question.

On the more technical note: I'm sure that shooting limited number of frames with film camera, without the possibility to see and correct on the spot the frame and without light meter most of the times (except my eyes ofcourse), already made me a better photographer even with my digital equipment.

PS.: As a side question: except of the obvious advantage of the Medium Format resolution (is it really equivalent to 60 Mega pixel picture?) is there any advantage to the film (35mm or other) over a full frame DSLR (which I can't compare to)?
 
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#19
Why don't you have a look for a Yashicamat 124G instead of the Rolleiflex? Pretty much the same sort of spec and quality, but a whole lot cheaper. If you don't need a TLR, have a look for a decent folder - Agfa Isolette, Franka Solida, Baldix, or like the one I got last week, a Kershaw 450, which only cost me £40 :)
 
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#20
sootzzs said:
PS.: As a side question: except of the obvious advantage of the Medium Format resolution (is it really equivalent to 60 Mega pixel picture?) is there any advantage to the film (35mm or other) over a full frame DSLR (which I can't compare to)?
Click to expand...
With a medium format camera you will quit counting megapixels very quickly. Assuming you buy a decent piece of equipment and use modern film and developers, you will have all the resolution you'll ever need, period.

What you will notice quickly once you get your analog process dialed in is that these films bring an incredible tonality and color palette out of the box. You think of the mood you want to create, pick the proper film and the result will look just right. In theory you could do all this in digital, but given the dreadful digital B&W images posted by self proclaimed professional photographers here in this forum, it seems to be a lot more difficult than it looks at the first glance, sometimes more options don't lead to better results.
 
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