Does your wife or significant other understand how much effort is required?
- Thread starter jdramirez
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surapon
80% BY HEART, 15% BY LENSES AND ONLY 5% BY CAMERA
Dylan777 said:When the boss is happy, I get more L
Keeps it simple JD
+100 for me too, Dear Friend Dylan777.
The Best way in my life = Make my wife super Happy, And I will get All of my " L " that I want ---EXCEPT 1,200MM L ---Ha, Ha, Ha.
BUT every time I buy " L " I must buy some of her new collection too, Shoud be 2-3X of my new " L " and make her smile.
Surapon
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Hi jd,
I have a different perspective. I don't think this is a case of someone not understanding how much effort is required. I think it is more of a case of someone saying that spending three hours on a Friday afternoon for a photography shoot is not something these girls want to do. You volunteered to take photos of your daughter and her team and that is commendable. But you've also made it maybe way more complicated than it had to be. You're not just taking one group shot or apparently one shot of each of the girls as you've indicated there are backdrop changes, lens changes, and lighting changes involved in the idea you came up with. So given what you're proposing, three hours is probably not very long. But it may not be what your daughter and her team want in terms of photographs or what they want to do with their afternoon. Now, if they would've come to you and proposed your plan themselves and then said they didn't want to spend three hours on it, well then I could see that they didn't understand what was involved. So I think we have a vision alignment issue and not an understanding issue. So ask them what they want. Maybe they just want tilt your head and smile photos. I get that that is not your thing, but since you've offered your services, and to your daughter, I think you now have to go with what she wants. If a regular client asked you for tilt and smile, you could say no. But you can't do that in this case because it's your daughter and because you offered your services in the first place. And maybe she and her team want something more than tilt and shift but maybe not the full version you originally proposed or maybe they're willing to do it but not on Friday afternoon. Or maybe they'd love action shots of themselves at a game more than studio portraits. You get the idea – – just ask.
Best regards,
Vivid
I have a different perspective. I don't think this is a case of someone not understanding how much effort is required. I think it is more of a case of someone saying that spending three hours on a Friday afternoon for a photography shoot is not something these girls want to do. You volunteered to take photos of your daughter and her team and that is commendable. But you've also made it maybe way more complicated than it had to be. You're not just taking one group shot or apparently one shot of each of the girls as you've indicated there are backdrop changes, lens changes, and lighting changes involved in the idea you came up with. So given what you're proposing, three hours is probably not very long. But it may not be what your daughter and her team want in terms of photographs or what they want to do with their afternoon. Now, if they would've come to you and proposed your plan themselves and then said they didn't want to spend three hours on it, well then I could see that they didn't understand what was involved. So I think we have a vision alignment issue and not an understanding issue. So ask them what they want. Maybe they just want tilt your head and smile photos. I get that that is not your thing, but since you've offered your services, and to your daughter, I think you now have to go with what she wants. If a regular client asked you for tilt and smile, you could say no. But you can't do that in this case because it's your daughter and because you offered your services in the first place. And maybe she and her team want something more than tilt and shift but maybe not the full version you originally proposed or maybe they're willing to do it but not on Friday afternoon. Or maybe they'd love action shots of themselves at a game more than studio portraits. You get the idea – – just ask.
Best regards,
Vivid
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Vivid Color said:
Got to agree with Vivid on this.
Good luck, I am glad I do not have teenage children!
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For me it's not at all about scheduling a portrait session or something like that...
We're pretty avid hikers... I lug my 100-400 and a 40mm or sometimes a 17-40 or 14mm along in my pocket or backpack... she knows that it's something I'm serious about and really want to keep improving on... That said... if I linger more than a few minutes to take a photo - especially if she's not interested in the photo or doesn't understand what I'm doing (macro for example)... I start getting the "eye-rolls"... to be honest, it's made my sense of correct settings etc much more acute, but I get home sometimes and wish I had tried a few more shots. She loves the photos when we're done, so she "gets" it.
My goal for this summer/fall... give her one of my old bodies (probably a t3i) and a light lens (kit lens probably) and have her try to shoot some of the same things I'm shooting so we can compare final results and I can help her learn what I'm doing with settings etc... Plus... she has a pretty good eye for what might look good in a frame - so she can snap away at her hearts' content and help me see things in a different way.
Hoping this will help me buy some time to set up a shot that I really want to catch!
Plus, it can't hurt to have another person interested in post processing some of mine. hahahah
We're pretty avid hikers... I lug my 100-400 and a 40mm or sometimes a 17-40 or 14mm along in my pocket or backpack... she knows that it's something I'm serious about and really want to keep improving on... That said... if I linger more than a few minutes to take a photo - especially if she's not interested in the photo or doesn't understand what I'm doing (macro for example)... I start getting the "eye-rolls"... to be honest, it's made my sense of correct settings etc much more acute, but I get home sometimes and wish I had tried a few more shots. She loves the photos when we're done, so she "gets" it.
My goal for this summer/fall... give her one of my old bodies (probably a t3i) and a light lens (kit lens probably) and have her try to shoot some of the same things I'm shooting so we can compare final results and I can help her learn what I'm doing with settings etc... Plus... she has a pretty good eye for what might look good in a frame - so she can snap away at her hearts' content and help me see things in a different way.
Hoping this will help me buy some time to set up a shot that I really want to catch!
Plus, it can't hurt to have another person interested in post processing some of mine.
hahahah
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I agree with Vivid Color. It is like writing an article on Photography You really have to understand your audience first. What I would write for myself, or someone like me, is very different than what I need to write for the general public. Same holds true for your photography. People, these girls especially, don't appreciate, or care about what you are trying to do, nor do their parents. It is great that you are willing to spend all of this time and effort, but I am guessing no one asked you for it. People are happy with selfies and quick photos. I guarantee that whoever receives the photos will spend a whole lot less time looking at your photo, than you did creating it.
To answer your original question, Yes our better halves understand what it takes. What they don't understand is why you want to give someone something they didn't ask for and don't know they need.
She is trying to say that she feels uncomfortable with you doing something for yourself, under the guise of it being for the girls or their parents. Sometimes your wife knows best.
I have gone through the same thing and honestly just given up. It is noble to want to give more than is expected and to do your best. But you do so at the risk of looking like someone who is out for their own interests. You are making your wife feel uncomfortable, and maybe your daughter. Will you be able to fix it when the photographs are amazing? Maybe.
To answer your original question, Yes our better halves understand what it takes. What they don't understand is why you want to give someone something they didn't ask for and don't know they need.
She is trying to say that she feels uncomfortable with you doing something for yourself, under the guise of it being for the girls or their parents. Sometimes your wife knows best.
I have gone through the same thing and honestly just given up. It is noble to want to give more than is expected and to do your best. But you do so at the risk of looking like someone who is out for their own interests. You are making your wife feel uncomfortable, and maybe your daughter. Will you be able to fix it when the photographs are amazing? Maybe.
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surapon said:Dylan777 said:When the boss is happy, I get more L
Keeps it simple JD
+100 for me too, Dear Friend Dylan777.
The Best way in my life = Make my wife super Happy, And I will get All of my " L " that I want ---EXCEPT 1,200MM L ---Ha, Ha, Ha.
BUT every time I buy " L " I must buy some of her new collection too, Shoud be 2-3X of my new " L " and make her smile.
Surapon
I'm usually not allowed to comment on carat weight, color, cut and clarity. Only allowed to give comment how beautiful it looks on boss finger ;D
Same rule applied to her when it comes to L. She can only comment how it looks on my 1Dx, not f4, f2.8 or f2 or f1.2 etc.... 8)
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My wife fully understands what it takes as she is my helper, and in some cases (like pregnant ladies, or our children) she is the "director" as ladies sometimes seem to listen to another lady better than a dude, and kids listen to mommy (especially because her face is not hidden behind a camera).
Regarding the OP, three hours is certainly not long FOR YOU. I did a shooting of a graduating college senior last week and I allocated three hours for just that one person. And it worked beautifully. However, in your case the last few girls that will have to wait for three hours doing nothing while you are shooting the rest, will be probably be bored out of their minds. Maybe you can ask them to come in in stages, or small groups of two-three kids at a time. I honestly can't see 11 kids sitting around patiently for more than fifteen minutes.
Regarding the OP, three hours is certainly not long FOR YOU. I did a shooting of a graduating college senior last week and I allocated three hours for just that one person. And it worked beautifully. However, in your case the last few girls that will have to wait for three hours doing nothing while you are shooting the rest, will be probably be bored out of their minds. Maybe you can ask them to come in in stages, or small groups of two-three kids at a time. I honestly can't see 11 kids sitting around patiently for more than fifteen minutes.
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That is all valid, but if you go into a restaurant expecting a soup and a sandwich, and the chef offers you their daily special which includes that in a smaller portion and a sampling of some delicacies... You might be intrigued... Say yes... And the chef is in the driver's seat. While I don't fancy dinner it up often, I know asking for ketchup before tasting something is bad form. Jerk, salting something before tasting is bad form...
I'm not trying to boast that I'm providing a five star gourmet meal, but I'm hoping it tickles four stars... Maybe four and a half. So we will see...
I collected baseball cards when I was a kid, and I really liked the studio club edition by topps back in the early nineties. I have provided game shots, but I really like the idea of rounding out the effort with some shots that rival the studio club cards.
I'm not trying to boast that I'm providing a five star gourmet meal, but I'm hoping it tickles four stars... Maybe four and a half. So we will see...
I collected baseball cards when I was a kid, and I really liked the studio club edition by topps back in the early nineties. I have provided game shots, but I really like the idea of rounding out the effort with some shots that rival the studio club cards.
Vivid Color said:
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Like many have said above, give your client (your daughter & wife) what they want, not what you want. Keep it simple! (KISS Principle, in spades.)
You'll be a hero if you provide great pictures (any pictures will be great to their eyes) in a short time frame. You'll be a SUPER HERO if you make it fun at the same time.
I have shot, sorted, culled, processed and uploaded over 20,000 images (after sorting and culling) for our scout troop over the years. But many of the gallery visitor counts are... wait for it... 0. Yes, ZERO. I do the photography for our Scouts, the High School Swim Team, Choir, Church, etc for ME. It's a win/win but I am rarely asked to do it. (I'm asked more and more now but it's not an obligation.) It's my hobby and I enjoy it. But I don't let it become a distraction or a burden at events, etc.
No one cares how good you are, how much work you do or how good the pictures are. What they care about is the experience and whether or not you are easy to be around and if it's enjoyable.
When we paid (a lot of money) to the best studio in town to shoot my son's senior portraits, the girl that shot them was pleasant, efficient, professional and we got a LOT of good shots in the can within the hour sitting time. Bada Bing and done! She used virtually the same camera, lenses, etc that I own. But I'm not a portrait photographer and my son wouldn't have posed for me like he did for her.
Becoming a great photographer is a lot less about photography and more about personality and charisma. The skill is important but that is useless if everyone is miserable. Keep this shoot short, simple and fun. Pad the shots with other shots of the games or the girls being active doing other things. Don't make it an adult thing, keep it a kid thing. Any time you can make the subject relax, be themselves and forget they are getting their picture taken, you get winner shots!!! These girls need to enjoy the experience, have fun and want/look forward to it happening again soon. Go at it from that standpoint.
Keep it simple and fun. And get help from others to keep things moving, fun and distracting so you can focus getting the photography done ASAP for each girl.
You'll be a hero if you provide great pictures (any pictures will be great to their eyes) in a short time frame. You'll be a SUPER HERO if you make it fun at the same time.
I have shot, sorted, culled, processed and uploaded over 20,000 images (after sorting and culling) for our scout troop over the years. But many of the gallery visitor counts are... wait for it... 0. Yes, ZERO. I do the photography for our Scouts, the High School Swim Team, Choir, Church, etc for ME. It's a win/win but I am rarely asked to do it. (I'm asked more and more now but it's not an obligation.) It's my hobby and I enjoy it. But I don't let it become a distraction or a burden at events, etc.
No one cares how good you are, how much work you do or how good the pictures are. What they care about is the experience and whether or not you are easy to be around and if it's enjoyable.
When we paid (a lot of money) to the best studio in town to shoot my son's senior portraits, the girl that shot them was pleasant, efficient, professional and we got a LOT of good shots in the can within the hour sitting time. Bada Bing and done! She used virtually the same camera, lenses, etc that I own. But I'm not a portrait photographer and my son wouldn't have posed for me like he did for her.
Becoming a great photographer is a lot less about photography and more about personality and charisma. The skill is important but that is useless if everyone is miserable. Keep this shoot short, simple and fun. Pad the shots with other shots of the games or the girls being active doing other things. Don't make it an adult thing, keep it a kid thing. Any time you can make the subject relax, be themselves and forget they are getting their picture taken, you get winner shots!!! These girls need to enjoy the experience, have fun and want/look forward to it happening again soon. Go at it from that standpoint.
Keep it simple and fun. And get help from others to keep things moving, fun and distracting so you can focus getting the photography done ASAP for each girl.
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If I was doing this, I would set up a very simple arrangement, maybe even as simple as just a single diffused flash (Gary Fong Lightshpere) on a flash bracket on camera bounced off a wall perhaps. Whatever age these girls are, I would try to make them feel pretty, famous and proud of themselves and get my wife/daughter to help them relax by talking to them, joking around, being silly, whatever it takes. All the while I'm shooting the camera.
If you must do the background changes, studio lighting, etc then train someone ahead of time to do it for you so you can concentrate getting the shots. Honestly, I think an efficient plan would get all the girls finished in under an hour, like maybe 45 minutes max. That's about 5 minutes per girl. Much more acceptable.
It sounds like you should do a practice shoot or two a day or two before with your daughter and wife and rehearse so you don't waste any time with settings or mis-steps. Treat it like a professional shoot if that's what it takes to get it all done right. Shoot for a compromise between your "studio card" goal and the more realistic goal of what your "clients" want/need/expect. That's when you'll be the hero.
If you must do the background changes, studio lighting, etc then train someone ahead of time to do it for you so you can concentrate getting the shots. Honestly, I think an efficient plan would get all the girls finished in under an hour, like maybe 45 minutes max. That's about 5 minutes per girl. Much more acceptable.
It sounds like you should do a practice shoot or two a day or two before with your daughter and wife and rehearse so you don't waste any time with settings or mis-steps. Treat it like a professional shoot if that's what it takes to get it all done right. Shoot for a compromise between your "studio card" goal and the more realistic goal of what your "clients" want/need/expect. That's when you'll be the hero.
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BTW, I know several professional photographers that shoot sports teams. They will all tell you that it's not about photography, it's about a LOT of preparation, logistics management and cat herding. It's a beating. Granted, this isn't on that level but it's got some similarities. In your case it's still about getting a group of teens to enjoy something that is akin to going to the dentist and waiting to do something that might be a bit intimidating or dreaded. Not all girls or people LIKE to have their picture taken or think of themselves as attractive. It's your job to overcome that!!
I'll shut up now... :-X
I'll shut up now... :-X
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To follow up, I would start this by taking photos of your daughter. Exactly the way you are envisioning them. Then let them be seen by the other kids/parents on the team. If they say "wow, those are great. How do I get some like that?" then you are correct and your services are desired. Many will say oh, those are nice and move along. They don't value them.
When I was aggressively pursuing photography, I wanted the same thing you probably do. A chance to do some real high quality stuff, practice your craft and make people happy. Also I wanted to justify an expensive hobby. With this sort of pursuit though, people can be distrusting. There is a creep factor to photography. OK, I said it, creep factor. When you offer to take photos of a child, the radar gets turned on. When you invite them to your house, it starts beeping, when you say it will be about three hours where you will have control of their child, well, the alarm bells are going off. Are you going to have all the kids there? Could the parents come too? Is it going to be in a public area of your house or in a rented studio? You can remove all of the major sticking points here, and you should... up front.
What if you pitched it this way. you bring the photos of your daughter to a game, you get buy in. You tell people you are willing to take a group shot at say 5PM in your back yard, or the park across the street. Then invite everyone for a pot luck barbecue at your house where whoever wants portraits, just like the ones of your daughter, can get them. Have it in an open environment. Setup a screen that shows the photos in realtime. Get a wi-fi SD card, let people see what you are doing, Let people join in and take some photos with their kids.
Setup a go-pro or other camera in the backyard taking time-lapse photos. let the kids goof around with that while they wait. (it is a decent draw to get people to your website if you have one)
Make it fun, safe, and open environment. Invite everyone, but don't worry when some people pass on the portraits. Use your best setup first. Then switch to another setup and see if the people want to wait for their turn on a second setup. Have fun with it, people will appreciate the effort, but for most people the photos will be secondary to a fun night\afternoon with the kids.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
When I was aggressively pursuing photography, I wanted the same thing you probably do. A chance to do some real high quality stuff, practice your craft and make people happy. Also I wanted to justify an expensive hobby. With this sort of pursuit though, people can be distrusting. There is a creep factor to photography. OK, I said it, creep factor. When you offer to take photos of a child, the radar gets turned on. When you invite them to your house, it starts beeping, when you say it will be about three hours where you will have control of their child, well, the alarm bells are going off. Are you going to have all the kids there? Could the parents come too? Is it going to be in a public area of your house or in a rented studio? You can remove all of the major sticking points here, and you should... up front.
What if you pitched it this way. you bring the photos of your daughter to a game, you get buy in. You tell people you are willing to take a group shot at say 5PM in your back yard, or the park across the street. Then invite everyone for a pot luck barbecue at your house where whoever wants portraits, just like the ones of your daughter, can get them. Have it in an open environment. Setup a screen that shows the photos in realtime. Get a wi-fi SD card, let people see what you are doing, Let people join in and take some photos with their kids.
Setup a go-pro or other camera in the backyard taking time-lapse photos. let the kids goof around with that while they wait. (it is a decent draw to get people to your website if you have one)
Make it fun, safe, and open environment. Invite everyone, but don't worry when some people pass on the portraits. Use your best setup first. Then switch to another setup and see if the people want to wait for their turn on a second setup. Have fun with it, people will appreciate the effort, but for most people the photos will be secondary to a fun night\afternoon with the kids.
Good luck, let us know how it goes.
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I suppose a little backstory is in order. I'm an assistant coach... So I have had a background check and I've known the girls for nearly a year. Ditto with knowing the parents... Though the wife is the social butterfly. Parents are welcome... The photos are being taken in the first floor rumpus room (it is a billiard room sans the billiard table).
We have get togethers like this all the time so the girls can bond and play as a team and for the team, not as individuals.
So there isn't too much that's creepy... Though I know what y'all mean... White lens, little girls... Just the way of the world. I'm actually not doing certain poses because of the creep factor (if y'all remember boo Jackson with the bat on the shoulders... Though he had football pads, though I could do that with the catcher... But no.
We have get togethers like this all the time so the girls can bond and play as a team and for the team, not as individuals.
So there isn't too much that's creepy... Though I know what y'all mean... White lens, little girls... Just the way of the world. I'm actually not doing certain poses because of the creep factor (if y'all remember boo Jackson with the bat on the shoulders... Though he had football pads, though I could do that with the catcher... But no.
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