"Downgrading" for a very specific reason

[memoriaphoto]

Soo....I've been shooting a lot with 5D MK2 and now two MK3 and overall these are fantastic cameras, especially the mark 3 with exceptional performance all categories.

However recently I was playing around with an old-timer, the 1D Mark 3 (a CPS loaner) and I just realized ...man...these files are just gorgeous! Sure, they are only 10 Mp and the ISO performance is nowhere near the 5D3 but the colors, tonality and overall balance make these files, in my opinion, much more pleasing than the 5D2/5D3. Now, the 5D3 is noticably “better” than 5D2 in this area but even so...the 1D colors seem to pop more with a "glow" and the files respond better in post. And they also have a film-like character which I really REALLY like...

I'm actually considering trading one of my 5D Mark 3’s in for a fullframe 1Ds3 if that one is on par (or even better) than the 1D Mark 3 in terms of color, tonality and general character. I know it's crazy. It's an old camera and the LCD is crap but that's what my heart tells me. And I will still have one 5D Mark 3 for low light work anyway so...

Is the 1D series files better balanced than the 5D2/3 series? To me, the difference seems quite dramatic. I guess you don't ONLY get a better body and faster FPS for that huge amount of extra money you need to cough up for the 1D cameras.

Also, regarding colors....it is often said that anything can be done in post and yes, I can make my 5D3 files come closer to the 1D3 output but it takes time and I can't afford that.

Any thoughts?

 

[rs]

What profile was enabled on the camera? These settings get recorded in the raw file, and if you use DPP, unless told otherwise it will obey these settings. Lightroom likes to ignore any in camera settings.

And if you're using something like LR, you can spend time fine tuning your look and feel, and then get it to apply it to all raw files when imported.

 

[paul13walnut5]

If you had mentioned ergonomics, or build, or handling I would say, yeah, a 1D is better designed than a 5D, for demanding users in certain situations, a 1D can be used with the eye to the viewfinder more of the time.

I could see why you might be swayed towards a 1D series camera.

Things to consider:

The 1D3 had a bad rep for AF (IMHO a lot of folk weren't setting them up properly, or simply the camera outclassed their understanding of AF etc) there were firmware and physical fixes.. just something to be aware of.

A 1Ds3 is a different beast. Although a better match in terms of FL conversion, it's

a

much

slower

camera.

What about a 1DIV?

Of course if its the look you are after you could try certain picture profiles. You mention 'film' like.

Tried this: Quick, Easy and Free...

http://www.dxo.com/intl/sony

Otherwise.. I think it would be silly to go old tech for IQ reasons.

 

[e17paul]

I have a similar thought when I look at photos from my old Olympus Mju 410. The colour rendition from the 4MP CCD punches well above its weight, despite the built in compact zoom lens. Maybe in the race for megapixels and high ISO performance, colour performance has taken a back seat.

Or maybe it is the glass? Without detailed comparison, my Olympus Zuiko lenses seem to give better colour than the Canon/Vivitar lenses when used on the 6D. When I get chance, I will test the Zuiko 50/1.4 on the adapter against the EF 50/2.5, both on the 6D.

In the light of this post, I would be interested in trying a 5D mark 1

The attached was taken with the Zuiko 24/2.8 adapted onto the 6D. Not a great photo, but the colours of car and sky are as their makers intended.

 

[TrabimanUK]

mmm Ford Capri orange. I saw a 3.0L in that colur win best car at the Adelaide classic car rally several years ago.

Sorry, off topic there. I've done a bit of research recently on image quality, and in theory the 1D3 should be on par with the 5D (though worse graining at higher ISOs), and the 5DII and 5DIII should be spanking it, with the 1Ds3 falling between the two newer 5D incarnations.

However, that's the theory.

Interesting that you're finding the 1D3 speed machine seems to be out performing the more portrait-oriented cameras in terms of colour, as I'm lookin to get into full frame, and can afford a 1D3 or 1Ds2, but not the newer versions of the 1 or 5 series.

all the best,

Grant

 

[wsgroves]

Just remember that the 1D3 is a APS-H camera...not exactly full frame, where the 1DS3 is full frame.

I still have my 1D mark II and I love the pictures it produces to this day and its only 8mp.

Scott

 

[privatebydesign]

I hate the APS-H sensor with a passion, the 16-35, a severely compromised compromise, becomes your truncated 24-70 and there is no 16-35 comparison lens for it.

The 1Ds MkIII is a different question, I have been using two for the last four years and they are an amazing tool, the files are much nicer than the 1D MkIII files, the framerate is 5fps compared to the 6fps of the 5D MkIII so no real limitation.

But I would like to have some of the features of the 5D MkIII, the iso performance is so much better, the RT flash system functionality and the second joystick on the drive are the three most pressing features I wish I had, but they are not enough to "upgrade" yet. Truth is I am waiting for a >20mp 1Dx MkII.

As for colours, it is digital, with a robust workflow you can make anything look like anything else, there is no reason to change cameras because of contrast, colour or anything else like it. Get some accurate dual illuminant camera profiles into your workflow and make everything look however you want.

1D/1Ds images do seem to have a bit more robustness when pulling and pushing RAW files, I never have worked out why, but the truth is if you get exposure accurate to within half a stop either camera, the 1Ds MkIII or 5D MkIII, will deliver your intended image.

As I said, I have 1Ds MkIII's and I am not seriously interested in swapping to 5D MkIII's, but if I had 5D MkIII's I wouldn't be interested in stepping back in time either.

 

[takesome1]

@memoriaphoto I have noticed this to with the 1D bodies. It is my belief that Canon put more in to the firmware on the flagship bodies. The files come out with less processing required.

As you noticed you can PP the 5D files to be as good as, and maybe even better than the 1D III's. The 1D files have less head room for improvement than the 5D files.

 

[Kwanon]

Go for the 1Ds Mark III!!!! it's a great idea!
It is in no way a downgrade in my opinion. The 1D series has a lot to give!

 

[docholliday]

I still prefer to shoot with my 1Ds3 and 1D3 than any of the newer bodies. Of course, I don't use anything higher than ISO800... For wireless strobes, I use MiniTT1 and FlexTT5s with 430EXIIs and have no range issues. The early reports of problems with the Pocketwizards have mostly been resolved with the newest firmware.

Yes, the files are crispier and more "rich" out of camera. There is definitely a film-like quality from them. This, of course, shot next to a 1VHS with Fuji Acros in it most of the time.

The 1D and 1Ds crop factors do make a difference, but is a good pair to have. For wide and resolution, I'll load the Ds. If I need reach, speed, or just a smaller file, I'll load the D.

Best part is that the configuration of both cameras match perfectly, so no change in controls when moving from one to the other. That, and there is an option to save your current camera configuration to the card. I'll then pull the card, put it into the other camera, and all my settings, custom func's, etc are loaded into the other body.

I've always (personally) preferred a larger body - coming from medium format, the weight and size is still "smaller" than the Hasselblad and Wisner LF cameras I use. The weight isn't a burden, especially with larger lenses. I shoot a lot on a tripod, so that also makes the size/weight issue moot.

It's not a downgrade.

The 1DsMkIII is still my favorite camera to this day. I don't have need for the 1Dx, nor the 1DIV - especially since I don't care for video. If I wanted motion, I'd go get a Red or Arri with Zeiss glass. The 5 series is too light for me and I don't care for the ergonomics, lack of weatherproofing, and having to add a grip to use a sling strap (I hate the Krap-Rapid design, I actually use my tripod mount often with Arca-Swiss plates...). The Op-tech sling kit on the right side top to the bottom lug of a 1DsMkIII is still the best way to carry it.

My favorite setup? 1DsMkIII with Zeiss 21/2.8 ZE or 100/2.8L IS Macro. 1DMkIII with 70-200/2.8L II IS or 180/3.5L Macro. If I was going for more resolution, I'd go Hasselblad H5D...

Get the 1DsMkIII - you'll love it (and once you've used a 1-series, you'll understand why the other bodies just don't feel right!).

 

[memoriaphoto]

Thanks for feedback guys. And some seem to agree with me which is nice, I am not loosing my mind after all ;D

As I mentioned earlier it is not really as simple as color profiles. I’ve played around with this for years making own profiles with Xrite colorcharts, tweaking existing ones etc. It’s more technical linked to bayer filters, image sensor/different digic processing and how the 1D series imagefiles in general seem a bit more balanced, respond better in post production and its colors a bit “purer”. Also, I am talking about IQ in the lower ISO range, max 1000

Someone mentioned that they find it interesting that I believe an 1D3 will outperform 5D mark 3. No, it will not outperform per se. High ISO images are beyond any possible comparison, the resolution of mark 3 files is also in another league so on paper it is of course unbeaten on every level.

No, it’s more a look and feel thing, which (to me) is IQ as well, however on a more subtle and personal level of course. This has nothing to do with modern camera performance. I know many still prefer the look of a 2005 EOS 5D compared to the newer ones. And since I mentioned personal it might also be worth saying that some may not even notice and difference at all. How we see and react to colors is very different.

I don’t know, As some of you have commented already, I guess the bottom line is that I find the 1D rendering more pleasing to my eyes and that the files respond “snappier” to my kind of editing.

 

[RLPhoto]

I felt the same way moving from a 5Dc to a 5D3. The files looked more neutral out of the 5Dc....

 

[memoriaphoto]

Does anyone know where to find real-life RAW files (not testcharts/brickwalls) from the 1DS mark 3 for download so that I can play around a bit and get a general feeling? If not, maybe someone could send a few files for testing? That would be interesting.

Cheers

 

[privatebydesign]

Does anyone know where to find real-life RAW files (not testcharts/brickwalls) from the 1DS mark 3 for download so that I can play around a bit and get a general feeling? If not, maybe someone could send a few files for testing? That would be interesting.

Cheers

PM me, I can send you around 200,000!

 

[wsgroves]

As much as I love the feel of the pro bodies, I still think memoriaphoto, that you need to figure out what you want to shoot first.
Will you be shooting a lot of low light situations? The iso on the 1ds3 is a fair bit behind that of the newer cameras such as the 5d3 and 1dx.

 

[Sporgon]

I felt the same way moving from a 5Dc to a 5D3. The files looked more neutral out of the 5Dc....

Funny you mention that because I am beginning to feel that way about the 5D mki as well. I can't put my finger on what it is. Certainly on screen the resolution from the 5D mkii and 6D is much better, but the 5D mki files seem to be smoother and go to print really well. Puzzled.

 

[canon1dxman]

Ah, Capri lust. I will put my rose tinted specs back on! Had a Capri 2.0S from new in 1978 and a 2.8is new in 1982. great cars in their day and loved them both. Happy memories but things move on.

Had a 1D3 from new and the images were fantastic.....when in focus!!! Sadly, that was the problem, too many out of focus images and that rarely happens with the 1DX, thank goodness. I would still have one though as a back up which speaks volumes for the IQ.

 

[Kwanon]

Memoria photo, what do you think about the 1DX?
I've had have owned and used the 5D Mark II, 1D Mark III, 1Ds Mark III, 1D Mark IV and now i use the 1D X.

My favourite files are from the 1DX and from the 1Ds Mark III second. If i didn't have the 1D X i could happily use the 1Ds III.

 

[7enderbender]

I felt the same way moving from a 5Dc to a 5D3. The files looked more neutral out of the 5Dc....

There are certainly differences. I just shot an event with my 5DII and a CPS loaner MarkIII (with a 70-200). Subtle differences but I liked my MarkII better. And I actually got a better keeper rate with it. Probably because I'm more familiar with it. I found that the AF system on the Mark III over complicate things.

Files look very very very similar (maybe because I converted the raw files of the Mark 3 to DNG files first to load them into LR3?).

 

[memoriaphoto]

As much as I love the feel of the pro bodies, I still think memoriaphoto, that you need to figure out what you want to shoot first.
Will you be shooting a lot of low light situations? The iso on the 1ds3 is a fair bit behind that of the newer cameras such as the 5d3 and 1dx.

That's a valid point, i am shooting a lot of weddings summertime and mostly portrait and life-style overall. In general, EOS 5D (any mark) is THE wedding camera, sure. And I get tons of great images. It's just that when I look at 1D images straight out of cam I feel that the starting point is miles ahead. I'm sure it's the result of better colorbalance algorithms and colorfilters Canon put in their high-end bodies. And rightfully so...

However...as for choosing, I own two 5D Mark 3 bodies, so what I am planning to do (if I trade) is to keep one of the 5D for real low light work and just the 1Ds3 for normal shooting. The only downside I can think of is that I will probably avoid using both bodies simultaneously due to color inconsistency between the 5D and 1Ds3. And of course potential operating issues switching from one body to the other