EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[Loswr]

Yes, Eldar – I get it.

Some people think more DR is the solution to every problem – it's not. If you accidentally overexpose, as you stated you had done, more DR won't help.

I predict you'll be disappointed with the 5Ds and its poor low ISO DR image quality.

 

[Loswr]

I also get there are people who want more DR than Canon delivers. What I don't get is why they continually complain about it here, where it does no good. Complain to Canon, better yet, stop buying Canon cameras.

Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canonjust doesn't get it, either. : :

 

[msm]

I also get there are people who want more DR than Canon delivers. What I don't get is why they continually complain about it here, where it does no good. Complain to Canon, better yet, stop buying Canon cameras.

Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canonjust doesn't get it, either. : :

I get that there are people who hare happy with what Canon delivers. What I don't get is why some of them continually have to defend Canon no matter what, attack anyone who complains about Canon, attack review sites that give Canon unfavorable reviews and bash offerings from the competition at any opportunity. Does anything good come from that?

As some have reached over 16000 posts on the subject it is quite clear what camp has the biggest fanatics. Thats almost 10posts every day for 5years.

Does it hurt you if someone says something bad about your camera? Would you spend as much energy defending your wife or family?

 

[Eldar]

Yes, Eldar – I get it.

Some people think more DR is the solution to every problem – it's not. If you accidentally overexpose, as you stated you had done, more DR won't help.

I predict you'll be disappointed with the 5Ds and its poor low ISO DR image quality.

Sorry, could´t help posting one more ...

No, DR is not the solution to every problem and the only one persistently stating that is you. I have never said so and I have not read that statement from anyone else either (excluding a multi time blocked Swede with various aliases). You expect everyone else to respect your posts and what you have said, so it would be courteous of you to do the same.

In this particular case. The use of the term over exposure and under exposure relates to the metering provided by the camera, not the final image. The goal is to have a correctly exposed image. And you must have me excused, but your question about Sonikon people always applying negative EC and pushing their shadows back up in post looks quite stupid ...

Canon suffer from shadow noise. To minimise that problem I push my exposure as high as possible, without clipping (it is not over exposed, i am just using the available DR I have). The risk I am running by doing that is exactly what happened in this image. The lighting changed and I had no head room in my dynamic range and it clipped.

If I had a sensor equal to the D810, I would be less concerned with shadow noise, because it is quite a bit better at that. I would be less focused on exposing to the right and I would operate within the available dynamic range, as I should. In this particular case I would have been able to correctly expose the shadow images AND have enough head room to manage the changed lighting and also expose the sunny image within the available dynamic range. So to repeat myself; This image in itself does not require more DR than I can get from my 1DX, but a couple of more stops would have given me the head room I needed to capture both scenes.

By the way, shadow noise seem to be improved on the 5DSR, compared to the 5DIII, so I may be less concerned with this issue then. Time will show.

It is also wrong to say I accidentally over exposed. I intently exposed as high as possible in the shadow images, without clipping, so my over exposure in the sunny images could easily have been predicted and it is fair to say that I asked for it.

 

[scottkinfw]

I'd love to be a tester, send one over right now!

I think it is a brilliant idea to have some selected photographers test the 5DIV before it hits the market.
This differs from the politics of Sony who let their clients do the beta testing of their products.
I am sure that the 5DIV will have some features that irritate the skin off some readers here.
While others quickly find an excuse to upgrade.

 

[Loswr]

In this particular case. The use of the term over exposure and under exposure relates to the metering provided by the camera, not the final image. The goal is to have a correctly exposed image. And you must have me excused, but your question about Sonikon people always applying negative EC and pushing their shadows back up in post looks quite stupid ...

You are the one who stated more DR would have helped your shot, and you then took the time to explain that with more DR, you would not generally choose to expose so far to the right. In order for more DR to preserve highlights when using autoexposure, you'd need to have applied negative EC...and in changing light, that means you'd always be underexposing.

I won't call your statements stupid, but they certainly lack internal logical coherence.

It is also wrong to say I accidentally over exposed. I intently exposed as high as possible in the shadow images, without clipping, so my over exposure in the sunny images could easily have been predicted and it is fair to say that I asked for it.

Fine, but you are the one who initially phrased it in exactly that way:

This shot would have benefited from more DR. Not because the scene demanded it, but because I accidentally over exposed it.

 

[sanj]

I also get there are people who want more DR than Canon delivers. What I don't get is why they continually complain about it here, where it does no good. Complain to Canon, better yet, stop buying Canon cameras.

Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canonjust doesn't get it, either. : :

Maybe to bug you? ;D

 

[sanj]

I respectfully disagree with this statement:

"Hypothesis; If Canon had sourced the 36MP sensor used in the D810 and A7r (I think it is) and released a 5DS&5DSR version with that two years ago. What would have happened to their market share, up or down? I think the answer is obvious. Would it require massive R&D investments? No. Would Sony sell? Yes, they sell to everyone."

It's not obvious. The 5D Mark III outsold the D800/E so it wasn't a larger concern for most shooters, even professionals. Could it have gone up or down, I don't know, but the answer is not obvious.

You are totally missing the point. The point is not to compare 5DIII with D800/E sales. The point is how many of the sold D800/E/D810/A7r would have been Canon cameras instead, if they had done as stated above and how many Canon users would have bought one of those in addition to a 5DIII (or a 1DX). It is pretty obvious that sum would be a positive number and most likely a substantial one.

This guy gets it.

The last camera I bought wasn't a Canon and it is looking likely that the next one won't either simply because Canon don't have cameras that I want: for one, I've given up walking around a city with a DSLR over my shoulder and now use something much smaller with smaller lenses. This means less weight and a more enjoyable day.

I think more and more options will be available for this kind equipment in future. I see a trend. I want to use both a small, good IQ at high ISO tiny camera with good focus when I don't want my presence felt and my 1dx with 85 f2 in neon lit streets when I can.

 

[Loswr]

I also get there are people who want more DR than Canon delivers. What I don't get is why they continually complain about it here, where it does no good. Complain to Canon, better yet, stop buying Canon cameras.

Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canonjust doesn't get it, either. : :

Maybe to bug you? ;D

Maybe. Admittedly, it's a bit frustrating to see people ignoring the reality that's staring them in the face.

I'll try and do better about not responding to the most egregiously idiotic posts...but I make no promises.

 

[sanj]

I also get there are people who want more DR than Canon delivers. What I don't get is why they continually complain about it here, where it does no good. Complain to Canon, better yet, stop buying Canon cameras.

Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canonjust doesn't get it, either. : :

Maybe to bug you? ;D

Maybe. Admittedly, it's a bit frustrating to see people ignoring the reality that's staring them in the face.

I'll try and do better about not responding to the most egregiously idiotic posts...but I make no promises.

hahahahaha.

 

[Eldar]

I'll try and do better about not responding to the most egregiously idiotic posts...but I make no promises.

He he, It is raining like hell here today, so I have nothing better to do. I could of course read up and try to compensate for my poor skills and get my basic understanding of exposure and dynamic range up to at least junior level, to make sure I do not contribute to more egregiously idiotic posts ...

John, you would do us all a favour if you do as you state above. In many cases you are a knowledgeable guy, who post good posts, with enlightening information. Some of them are even helpful. But you must stop being offended when someone has a negative opinion about your favourite toy. Don´t be insulted and don´t feel obliged to jump in the trenches. The majority of the posts, which you call fact based, appear like anything but fact based to us. Too many of them appear as emotional "don´t mess with my precious" posts, so stop claiming that you are factual and the rest of us isn´t. It is simply wrong.

I´ll ignore your insulting (yes, that is what they are) statements above and I´ll ignore your persistent lack of will to understand what I say (Yes, it is persistent lack of will, because I am sure you have the intellect) and I look forward to a life on CR, where you do as you state in the quote above. We know you are happy with what you have, we know you are onboard with Canon´s strategies, we know you hate DxO and we know that you focus on the system. You don´t have to give us 10 posts a day, repeating that. And if we forget, we have a backlog of 16.000 posts to consult.

Have a good weekend!

 

[Loswr]

Just to be clear, Eldar - your posts are generally eloquent and clear, even when I don't agree with your content.

 

[sanj]

Elder I am sure you know this, but when I typed 'hahahaha' above it in no manner whatsoever implied that your comments where idiotic. I just found Neuro reaction funny (in a nice way) and laughed. Just making my self clear.

I am the on the side that wants Canon to have industry best DR both at low and high ISO.

I also like the way you have written to Neuro above. Polite and to the point without anger. Gentleman!

 

[Loswr]

I am the on the side that wants Canon to have industry best DR both at low and high ISO.

Do you know anyone who's not on that side? ???

 

[Sporgon]

...
Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canon just doesn't get it, either. : :

Well let me put it to you another way: I don't know anyone that has started out and bought a Canon when landscape photography is their goal.

You do now.http://www.colinprior.co.uk/profile/


It appears that you 'don't know' many things dilbert. Using ''I don't know'' to emphasis the validity of your point is , in your case, an unfortunate phrase, albeit accurate.

 

[sanj]

I am the on the side that wants Canon to have industry best DR both at low and high ISO.

Do you know anyone who's not on that side? ???

I do: Canon.

I have full faith it is matter of time. I know your reply will be it is too late already, but I trust it is a matter of time.

 

[sanj]

I am the on the side that wants Canon to have industry best DR both at low and high ISO.

Do you know anyone who's not on that side? ???

Modification: "I am on the side that wants Canon to have industry best DR both at low and high ISO and feel that this is important." Makes more sense now probably.

 

[msm]

...
Except that dilbert assures us that everyone who cares about DR has already stopped buying Canon, so clearly Canon's business is suffering because their sensors deliver less low ISO DR. So I guess Canon just doesn't get it, either. : :

Well let me put it to you another way: I don't know anyone that has started out and bought a Canon when landscape photography is their goal.

You do now.http://www.colinprior.co.uk/profile/


It appears that you 'don't know' many things dilbert. Using ''I don't know'' to emphasis the validity of your point is , in your case, an unfortunate phrase, albeit accurate.

Thanks for the link, many nice panoramas there.

 

[Mr1Dx]

To Eldar & Neuro,
I do see good points from both sides. May I suggest we keep the debate at gent's level.

Eldar,
I'm familiar with your situation. My most recent trip to South Africa Safari, when tracking the male Lion walking in/out the trees - applying EC wasn't my priority one. With today digital photography, software plays huge role in post. I was able to fix most situations. On the others side, better sensor would reduce times in PP.

Best,
John

 

[LonelyBoy]

I am the on the side that wants Canon to have industry best DR both at low and high ISO.

Do you know anyone who's not on that side? ???

I do: Canon.

You're entirely right. Canon is on the side of "Canon having industry-best fat sacks of cash." They're doing quite well in that arena.